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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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Deceiver_0
JSW_Ballz
Join Date 03/2008
+7
Reply #901 February 11, 2010 11:18:32 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Commander_Exile,
reply 900
[...]I doubt the devs will make any more changes to the game.  THey might launch one or two more patches asfter Diplomacy comes out, to fix bugs, but changing the game outright leaves room for new bugs, and they didn't exactly seem too happy about this last patch we been asking for.  I think we should focus on finding bugs, rather than making a wish list.  The game does work right now, after all.

It's still worth discussing.  The devs do tend to listen to the discussions quite a bit, and while they don't implement everything discussed, they seem to have implemented a number of changes based on the suggestions from this thread and others.  They seem to be taking the pirate thing seriously right now, so we might as well keep talking.

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CrazyElectron
Join Date 05/2009
+3
Reply #902 February 11, 2010 7:09:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Makin the defender change as you arrive makes it impossible for the guy to have the chance to kill even 1 ogrov.
Why is it that, in this argument, the good strategic principles of scouting and being one step ahead of your enemy go out the window.  If he's totally unprepared for my counter, then that's his problem for not keeping an eye out (and using some common sense that if my bomber assualt just failed, therefore my next assualt will be composed of fighter resistant units).  Why should the defender even be able to kill 1 Orgov?  Does that make things FAIR?  Hate to say it, but if your defenses were rolled over by a well assembled enemy fleet, that's your own fault.  I, as the attacker, should ideally not loose any units with a good strategy.  Keeping light armour for Orgovs/Ajudicators just so the defender has a chance to kill a few, rather than loosing outright due to an ill-prepared defensive line aka a bad strategy (can you see what I'm saying here?) is a strange argument when dealing with a strategy game.
Again you will lose a few ships but once you have supressed the fighters battle is yours.
If the battle was between fighters and flak+assault cruisers, then yes, the battle is yours.  If this battle involves an enemy fleet (like it should) then you have problems.  Even if you kill the fighters, the additional damage those fighters do before going down due to being effective vs. light armour will allow the enemy fleet to FF your assault cruisers into oblivion.  With a heavier armour type, switching to assault cruisers would be an intelligent move to nullify the opponent's advantage, rather than a gamble that the opponent doesn't know how to micro-manage his fighters and just clean up with his fleet, (or he has repulse, in which case the flak frigates get slapped away and the assault cruisers are then minced at lesiure by the fighters, at least with different armour, they might do some meaningful damage, but this is a specific situation), it means his fleet is forced to fight intelligently to compensate for the advantage he no longer has; read, he has to use a considerably different strategy, which is what building a counter is supposed to do in the first place.

 

I still say put this up there.  Maybe that will solve the argument once and for all.

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #903 February 11, 2010 7:19:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

With a heavier armour type, switching to assault cruisers would be an intelligent move to nullify the opponent's advantage, rather than a gamble that the opponent doesn't know how to micro-manage his fighters and just clean up with his fleet, (or he has repulse, in which case the flak frigates get slapped away and the assault cruisers are then minced at lesiure by the fighters, at least with different armour, they might do some meaningful damage, but this is a specific situation),

Do you play online?People dont come at you with 2 ogrovs more like 10-20.They snipe even an upgraded sb very quick.What are you talkin about repulse?It repulses the ogrovs as well as flak.They will all still be together just moved back.Any case when advent get meteor they dont need to repulse much anyway.It is extrmely hard to kill a significant amount of ogrovs with the defensive fighter force from a planet alone.

I, as the attacker, should ideally not loose any units with a good strategy.

lol   Boy sounds like fun to entrench.

 

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JuleTron
Join Date 06/2008
+17
Reply #904 February 12, 2010 12:26:17 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Laughing at someone is no substitute for a logical argument.

This issue is not so much about assualt cruiser survivability, but more about counter systems. Its not about whether assualt cuisers are tough or not, the issue is that assualt cruisers are not really an alternative at all to bombers when viewed from the perspective of the game's counter system.

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Deceiver_0
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+42
Reply #905 February 12, 2010 1:17:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yet they function fine as an alternative.

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Agent of Kharma
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #906 February 12, 2010 5:28:38 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Armor type is fine.  They would be a better alternative if they were priced better. Right now they are priced as much as carrier cruisers.

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Kitkun
Join Date 06/2008
+175
Reply #907 February 12, 2010 5:33:20 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Spam moar fighters.

 

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #908 February 12, 2010 8:49:27 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well I ment no offense but he said he should be able to take out an entire defensive system without losing a ship.Come on now.

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JuleTron
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Reply #909 February 12, 2010 7:08:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I thought that he meant that a player shouldn't lose many units. Yeah that does sounds rediculous though. However, he was referring to an ideal situation.

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Deceiver_0
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Reply #910 February 12, 2010 8:15:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

TEC Carrier- 835 Creds 14 supply

Ogrov- 620 creds 12 Supply

Drone Host- 1280 Creds 20 Supply

Adjudicator- 1040 Crds 18 Supply<------

Heres the biggest problem. Adjudicators Cost is WAY WAY too high for the job they do. Ogrovs are about where they should be, cheaper than a 2 squad carrier, and very effective at destroying structures, so you get what you're paying for. Problem is for Adjudicators you're paying ~50% more in Creds and Supply for something that doesn't do as good of a job. And why? Well the adjudicators do have a tougher hull and more shields, but thats is not worth the extra cost. An Advent player would much rather spend a little bit more and get a 3 squad carrier. Adjudicators definitely need to be more cost effective, especially since you need several of them to really kill anything. The thing I take the most issue with is that they take up 18 supply. The creds are a bit high, but that can account somewhat for their tough exterior, but WHY, OH WHY, is it the third largest consumer of supply (behind caps and drone hosts)? That makes NO sense and IMO is why nobody ever uses them. You cut that cost down to maybe 12, and cut the credit and resource cost a bit, then maybe you'll see them more often. Because when you get about 8+ of them attacking some defenses, thats when those structures start blowing up fast.

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Twilight_Storm
Join Date 07/2009
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Reply #911 February 13, 2010 12:46:19 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

@JSW_Ballz:  I agree, we should keep talking about it, but i just think we should focus mostly on bugs, and maybe throw a few wish list things in from time to time, since it seems like they're winding down a bit on SOASE in general, after Diplomacy.  I'm all for the discussion, there are a lot of good ideas out there, and even if the devs don't go for it, we could use this thread as a base for a universal mod to make the game the way we want it, and somehow get it adopted by the online community.

But if we want this stuff in patches, the key is to point out any flaws that remain than HAVE to be fixed, and make a few suggestions that would be easy fixes while they're working on it anyways.

Just sayin...

-Exile Dark

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Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #912 February 13, 2010 7:50:10 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Right.  At this point, we will want to suggest that which we know needs to be implemented to prevent abuse.  The illum bug for instance, that was critical.  At this point in time, really the only abilities left that don't really do anything are GRG and Animosity.  Outside of that, most abilities are passable.  Sure, I would like to see RC with a target filter, or something done to the Revelation, but those two currently have no purpose IMO and should have priority over other balance concerns.

Obviously bugs take priority over balance as they can ruin an otherwise good game.

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Deceiver_0
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Reply #913 February 24, 2010 2:51:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

NEW patch stat changes forum has been created, check it out here and let the discussions begin. https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/376702

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