Need help with "Face Off."

I know the map you're talking about.  Like all the really small maps, going for the big planets that are far away from your homeworld is a tempting but inferior approach.  Instead, go for the asteroids and attack the enemy directly.  You still want to take any neutral extractors at the asteroid belt, but you don't need to send capital ships to do this, just a few frigates to capture them and maybe a few more to chase away any enemies trying to do the same.

Remember, if your enemy tries to capture those more distant planets, his homeworld will be defenseless and you can attack it.  In other words, if you keep your fleet in position he's stuck defending his one world and you've got the game in the bag so long as you control those three asteroids.  Those more distant planets will likely never enter into the equation.  I never colonize them when I play this map.

On a map this small, never move your capital unless it is destroyed.  Yes, some of those outer worlds will have lower loyalty, but this is perfectly normal.

All caps are generally the same speed, but the fastest cap is the maurader.

that said i would still build an egg or a kortul because in small maps u either strong colonizing power of colonizer caps or the battleship.

Suppose I quickly get HAA of the HAAAH series.  That's about 8 resources for me, 6 for them.  Both very short of build slots. 

?-Then send a small force to the loop, pick up some extractors but don't build anything else because too easy to take down?

?-Or how about this:  Choose the Vasari CV plus extra squadrons, have it spend most of its time it in the star's GW, do go for the side loop.  In my (limited) experience it is really hard to interdict a star short of LOTs of strikecraft.

Re cap ships--anywhere I can find speeds?

You should have enough logistics slots to get by.  You'll have 6 logistics slots in the case you describe.  That's enough for your capital shipyard, two frigate factories, and three military labs.  Regardless of your faction, that's enough.  Don't waste time with civic tech on such a small map.  Research the necessary unit types and build a fleet of them, then attack.

Scout the asteroid belt to see how many neutral extractors are there.  If there are none, completely ignore this area.  If there are some, send a colony frigate (scouts if you're Vasari) to capture them.

What do you mean by CV?

In any case, the only time it would be worthwhile to take those outer planets is if they had very few militia and you could somehow ensure you could hold your own asteroid safely.  I still think your best bet is to aggressively attack along the asteroid chain and threaten the enemy's homeworld.

All caps move at the same speed.  The Marauder has a special ability that allows it to move faster.

Perhaps there is topic on it. so try searching the forums. But the antorak is the fastest cap thanks to distort gravity but is a terrible first cap choice as it has little combat abilities except phase out hull. though in al small map it could be useful if u can get it to the enemy homeworld and subvert it before he can build any sizable fleet whilie slowly sending in one of your own. though that would mean skipping colonizing other planets all together.

i wouldnt recommend it

o and i assume CV means carrier vessal

sova rushing works the best for that map; you can probably have them surrender about 15min in.

The AI does not surrender on small maps.  You will need to completely kill it off.  That said, Sova rushing is definitely applicable on this map.

Thanks, although disappointing.  Means they've designed a map > half of which a human player is best off ignoring.

CK

If you stalemate for a significant length of time, going for those outer planets would be a sensible option (although you'd need to set up defenses in order to avoid the enemy launching a counter-attack).  However, the AI is a relatively poor defender so this is unlikely. 

The problem with Face Off is that it places too much emphasis on the asteroid chain.  Asteroids are the "low lying fruit" of planets, the stuff you capture first before you grab anything else.  The chain of asteroids is like a trail of bread crumbs leading you and your opponent into a very sudden confrontation.  If the battle turns into a stalemate (someone will own the central asteroid, which will be a huge advantage) then those outer planets may become of interest, but against the AI this is unlikely.

That's the beauty and the strategy of it. Putting something enticing out there that complicates the strategy and disadvantages a player who can be distracted from the goal (total enemy annihlation) makes the player both think and want to try playing the map multiple ways.

I really like the maps that force you into those tough decisions, if it's easy to see what to do, then it's just "The Way" and you're playing out a pre-planned scenario. It's so much more fun to be an all-powerful commander when the better path isn't clear!!

The point is that Face Off doesn't balance these two approaches, because the "loop" of planets is too distant and the chain of asteroids really drives the players into quick confrontation.  I would have put a big neutral gravity well in the middle of that chain of asteroids (probably a gas giant) to act as a buffer between the two players.

As a map-maker, I've developed my own philosophies and approaches to making good balanced maps for Sins.  Now,  I've had the benefit of months of playing the game in multiplayer to get a very deep understanding of the timing of player expansion.  This is a good example of my work:

Do you claim your ice and consolidate your solar system, or go straight for the two deserts in the middle?  Or maybe you should quickly research long range jumps and attack through the sun?  I've seen all of these strategies pursued.  Very fun map.

Pretty cool map Darvin. do i have to go multiplayer to try or can i get it somewhere.

But on the topic i think your right face off really promotes only its name sake facing off with your opponent. i think the best plan is a cap rush with a cap like the sova for the TEC the revelation for advent and the kortul or egg for the vasari( if your feeling lucky you can try the maurader)

That map is part of this map pack: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/365777

It's called "Escalation"

I like the map. Esp. on lan w/ low lag.

Well, it worked.  Built only 2 mil labs and no civ.  Would like to try again, this time taking the whole map seriously.  Ideas, anyone?

If you want to try taking the whole map then your going to have to build strong economy pretty early. also to prevent the AI from doing to you what you would normally do to it (cap rush and i have seen the AI do it) your going to either need build starbase or cause pirates to attack it.

Honestly the best bet is just to do what you did already. trying to take the whole map will jus draw out what could be a short game. but whatever goodluck

Yes, here.  From Zyrxil's pinned stat post.

Colony Capital ships are actually a little slower than the other Cap ships (475 vs 525).   But they are still generally the best first choice, allowing quicker/better/cheaper colonization.  On this map, the Carrier Caps might be a better choice, because they offer more fire power early on.  The Marauder has an unique ability to increase speed of its fleet using 'distort gravity'.   It also has a 'Subversion' ability that might be usefull in rushing the enemy.

Darvin has given good advice.  This map is a face off, and is about a rush to destroy your opponent (via the asteroids).  Even the map description says "take what few there are and crush enemy quickly". 

I too have played thru all of the maps, and wish they would have included a campaign, which 'unlocked' the next map. I found that the map descriptions often give a good hint of what strategy to pursue.

Exactly.  It is not much of a choice.  I find that if I raid their home planet with a Sova early I gain time with which to take the loop, but in that case I could just as easily wipe them out w/out bothering.

I think I'll try going straight to the loop, ignoring the asteroids; build very heavy defenses on my home.  If I can keep track of their fleet I'll have interior lines.  But there is a cap ship problem--the natural choice for 3 big planets is a Progenitor, but they have hefty garrisons so I can't go that weak.  Combat-wise.  Suggestion on best civ/cap ship for this strategy?

Thanks for the maps.

And to the gentleman who posted the ship stats.

You should always take the first asteroid; this is too good to pass up.  You don't need to send a capital ship, three light frigates and a colony frigate will do the trick (if you can, take the next one).  For defenses, multiple repair bays are your best bet.  Asteroids are actually great places to set up your defenses, since the gravity well is so small.

If your talkin damage wise a battleship is your best choice. However that will honestly slow down your expansion and if your going to take the loop you want to do it fast plus if your playing advent your going to need the advantage of the motherships colonize to save money.

Honestly jus bcuz its main purpose is colonzation doesnt make the mothership weak its sheild restore is as awesome skill plus SC support and mothership can take the loop on its own. jus get a few disciples to help and you wont need any other caps to take loop.

Desert planets, if there is one, can have nearly 20 defenders including Kodiaks.  No can do with just a mothership and a few basic frigates.   I don't have to hit that one first but even so ....

The discounted planet upgrades don't seem worth much.  The 30-second wait costs almost as much as the 1st dicount saves, plsus not likely to collect on more than 2-3 per planet unless I buy upgrades I don't want yet.  Other abilities seem better than getting level 2 of this. 

Trust me the mothership is one of the best cap ships in the game and there is not a single cap that take on a heavily guarded Desert planet singlehandedly.

Sheild restore is a powerful advent ability and can pervent you from takin heavy damage. It is possible and i recommend getting a mothership if your advent to get the job done. you will jus need a balanced fleet of light frigs and scouts(for long range frigs)to get it done. if the planets have kodiaks build bombers from capitals hence if your bent on not using the mothership use the halycon.

And seriously if the planet is so guarded that you cant take it easily then neither can the AI and you can ignore it or ninja colonise by takin out the siege the colonising.(the other frigs cant take the planet and the its you either have a free protection squad you can use as exp at your leisure or you can place a turret whick will eventually (if replaced every now and again) kill the frigs.(give darwin karma for that idea)

Edit: plus if there is such a planet(you seem unsure) that only further proves our point this map is best accomplished by quickly finshing off your enemy and ignoring the outer loop

The easiest way to take down heavily defended deserts with just a capital ship is to use turrets and repair bays.  Kill the siege frigates first (there are never more than 3), then colonize the planet and build the necessary defenses.  These defenses will then easily clear the planet defenders.  You will need to act quickly, as you don't have very long to get your repair bays up before your mothership takes too much damage.

I had not thought of that.

The three loop planets vary from game to game. 

The Q asked was what if you don't want to ignore 1/2 the map.