Sins Forums
why have people been spamming carrier caps as vasari and advent so much lately?
i can't play online at all right now due to my internet connetion being extremely poor, but i theorized privately a while back that a carrier cap would be cost-effective when it levels up due to the number of sqadrons it would carry. in other words, how much would you have to spend in terms of resources for carrier cruisers in order to host... what's the maximum for carrier caps now... 8 squadrons?
can someone confirm whether this is the rationale behind carrier cap spamming? it would seem to be.
considering all the ablities that the cap carriers bring plus having a max out of eight squads (Advent can reach 11 permanently due to abilities, Vasari can reach 11+ through the much improved scramble bombers, and the 8 for TEC are extremely strong making them equal to 11 to 12 normal SC).
the abilites of energy weapons cooldown and the telekinetic push for the Advent, the Nano Repair and MicroPhasing for the Vasari, and last but not least the Embargo, Missile Batteries(better cooldown and AM usage) and Rapid Manufactering for the TEC also make for some powerful support ships as well.
Agent has it half right. carrier cap spamming is being used alot now because of the cost effectiveness of teh caps and their abilites. The TEC one doesnt have the powerful abilities. Both advnet and Vasari cap carreirs give instant air superiority. for advent you can clear the well of fighters and bombers easily, as well as increasing dmg of frigates. For vasari you can repair ships and strike craft giving a significant advantage in a battle.
The abilities compined with the extra squadrins make Carrier caps very powerful.
But despite their power spamming them is not the best stratagy in the world. Support caps still can be far more useful if used properly.
What about Embargo, Missile Batteries, Heavy SC, and Rapid Manufacturing? 
Because really, de-bugged Embargo is devastating when trade comes up, and Missile Batteries and Heavy SC both increase the damage output of the Sova by quite a bit. 
Agree with Swordsalmon. The Rapid Manufacturing really aids in the building of an instant fleet. With five frigate factories you could build a sizeable fleet in seconds, great for replacing lost fleets (provided you have the funds)
It's actually extremely effective. Carrier caps, unlike carrier cruisers, don't require antimatter to replace their dead squads. Combined with the softened rebuild penalty, you need a lot of flaks to keep the fighters down, something which often isn't viable early game. With that strong fighter presence early on, the enemy has to either include more flaks or accept that he's going to lose a lot of LRF/scouts. Either way, you've just knocked out a big chunk of his fleet's damage and allowed you to win with LF spam.
If someone spammed Carrier Caps against me in a 1v1 they would get crushed. Rushing Carrier Caps is a good strategy but it leaves you with an early game weakness since you probably won't have that many frigates, plus the research and cost of getting several cap ships quickly is very expensive.
In a 2v2/3v3+ etc. situation it becomes a lot more viable because you have time build/expand etc., but I still think that strategy is easily countered by either fighters or flak, depending on what they go.
I don't think it's overpowered or anything from my experience.
The Halcyon Carrier with Adept Drone Anima could actually be a bit more efficient than using Drone Hosts. A level 3 Halcyon can have 6 SC, which offsets using two Drone Hosts. Also, it gets another ability and can bomb planets, which may make fielding multiple Halcyons superior than Drone Hosts.
With TEC, all of the Sova's abilities are great, so having multiples is a good idea anyway.
The only area where I can't see Carrier cap spam is with the Vasari. The Skirantra has its amazing Repair Cloud, but you really need only one to support a fleet. And the rest of its abilities aren't exactly fantastic.
Moreover, the Halcyon also gets a regular attack (not great, but it does have an impact), has a faster move speed than carrier cruisers enabling it to kite better, does not require antimatter to replace squads, has a favourable armour type, and it gets telekinetic push special attack to deal with enemy strike craft.
All things considered, it's actually much superior to drone hosts in many ways. Now, expense-wise it's a lot more difficult to field Halcyons, but once they're ON the field, good luck buddy.
Also as far as 1v1 is concerned it depends on the map layout. The scariest thing about Halcyons is that your usual counter to fast-carrier (that is, lots of light frigates) doesn't work. In fact, the only unit that can kill a Halcyon effectively in the early game is the long range frigate... which is countered by your fighters. In other words, you need a critical mass of LRF and flak to beat back this rush, but that critical mass isn't viable early on! Puts you in a very tough position. I've found the best way to counter an enemy carrier spammer is to bring out my own carrier/
Not necessarily. Multiple Skirantra are awesome -- I think they actually stack better than the other two races. if you manually control repair cloud so they never overlap and waste antimatter, you make your fleet tremendously hard to kill. You still need a fleet and other capabilities, so I almost never get around to using this, but I have played with it a couple times and it is extremely effective. You keep your fleet in tight formation around the Skirantras and and manage them kind of like a Vasari version of a battleball.
I almost never go this way in a multiplayer game because I like the capabilities of the Egg and the Kortul, and I don't usually use more than a couple caps unless I am in cleanup mode at which point I spam Desolators. BUT, if you ever play a long game and want something different, try it out. Cluster your fleet of Assailants and HC's around 3 Skirantra, throw in some Overseers and any other old ship you want to use, and give it a spin. 1 Skirantra can be countered or overwhelmed, 3 are very tough to crack unless the opposing fleet is much bigger, at which point it would win anyway.
Actually, Halcyons might be a bit cheaper. I'm not entirely sure, but it depends on Crystal production. Each Drone Host costs 220 Crystal; Halcyon, 250. So two Drone Hosts are costing much more Crystal than just a level 3 Halcyon. And Advent's mining bonus research is already very expensive, while Trade Ports and Culture make it quite a bit easier to get Credits. The only problem I can see is that capital research gets a bit expensive later on.
You forget the cost of the crew upgrade, which you also must include. These greatly increase the cost of your capital ships. Capital ships are actually very inexpensive as far as metal and crystal are concerned, but their credit cost isexorbitantly high. You're going to need to sell metal and/or crystal on the black market anyways to afford them.
In fact, one of the biggest perks of Halcyon rushing is you don't need military labs. Put up two civic labs and immediately grab a nearby ice. You can have your Progen and two Halcyons out (because fleet and crew upgrades can use civic labs in lieu of military ones!) with this simple setup, and once you have the techs you're interested in you can scuttle the labs.
Also it should be noted that culture raises metal/crystal income as well as tax income.
JJ once took down my 9000hp 1st tier weapons upgraded Orky with 3 skirantras fighting it head on (their bombers helped of course), and didn't lose a singe one.
Heh...JJ is just the sort of ebil person to be using tactics like this....capitals are actually pretty excellent to fight SB, it is all the little ships that get shredded. You almost never see 3 Skirantra in the field, but if you do and the other guy knows how to micro their repair, then watch out.
The carrier caps, if well used, are probably now some of the strongest caps in the game. I'm seriously starting to consider that they may in fact be overpowered. Skirantra and Sova are within reason, but the problem with the Halcyon is telekinetic push. If I have three or four of these on the field... just forget about using strike craft. It's virtually impossible for you to field a significant number of bombers or fighters without having them literally tossed aside.
What I've found is that the only surefire response is an anti-strike-craft capital ship or a large force of both LRF and flak. Preferably both, of course, but good luck getting even one in play early-game without hampering your fleet overall. What I've found is that it's virtually impossible to get a balance of both LRF and flak on the field in time to stop this rush, and the only anti-strike craft capital that gives you your money's worth is none other than the Halcyon itself, which is kinda the problem to begin with.
Yes and no. The strategy is strong. The rush I've seen most myself is the one coined by krath, a Sova and a Marza. Similiar situation.
I say yes it's hard to counter because of the bonuses the carrier caps get to their strikecraft.
I say no because carrier caps are like any other caps. They make lovely gigantic targets. Espcially early on. I personally am playing a lot of TEC lately, and love using the Akkan. Get a decent contingent of flak out for the fighters, get the lrms out quick, and get the Akkan to hit the caps with ion bolt (if you can time it better to counter abilities all the better).
Boom. Dead Caps. It's a new strategy which I think is flustering people. The first time it happens, the odds are you were an easy unprepared target.
Personally, now I've had to readjust my starting rush strategies. Poeple hit harder and hit faster early now. If you're not building ships early on you had better be waiting for your research so you can build more.
Look at the stats of one sova compared to 6 assailants and 4 flak. Those six assailants do 98 dps out the gate, or 73.5 dps against caps. A level one sova does 33 dps and then the three squadrons do a bit over 30 dps, 60 dps if against light armored targets.
Hmm....That's 73.5 vs. 93. I think I just disproved my point. Yes I know I left flak out of that arguement, but they'd be going after the fighters. Oooookay, let's go with light frigs.
5 Gardas and 6 cobalts vs 1 sova
6*9.5=57 dps out the gate.
The sova does 33. The 3 squads of fighters do 30 dps, but that's reduced to 15 (50% against light frigs), so that means
57 dps vs. 48 dps.
Of course I'm leaving out abilities here. The allure of carrier caps is quite strong, but really, I have a hard time arguing against having more than 2 caps witihin the first thirty minutes. You're eco suffers because of how much you pay to not only get the capital ship slots, but to get the actual ships too.
Just hit the 'destroy planet' button a few times to turn them all into plasma storms.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
