Extremely Unlikely Expansion Idea

Are these ideas even possible?

First off: Hello, everyone. I'm Fulcon and I like SoaSE. And I'm not afraid to admit it.

Now, on with the thread/paper.

To my understanding, Diplomacy is gong to be the last expansion.

But after the last expansion, what could they do? I think they could add just a couple of *clears throat* 'features' that might not even be possible, because it clashes so completely with Sins' game engine. Well, not so much the first feature. But the rest...anyway.

The first feature I would like to see would be boarding parties. You know, like have Colony Ships have the added benefit of being able to capture other ships by over-coming the other ships security teams. However: If you go over the supply limit with capturing ships, the ships you're capturing without paying for with have severely reduced functionality. That would be the ideal balance for me, though simply scuttling the ship if is goes over the supply limit works too and some of you could have a better idea still.

And you could send your own boarding parties onto your own ships to deal with opposing security forces. With this mechanic, you could also create an Insurgency mechanic. Like if you capture a planet, but there's still some survivors which will try to over throw the planet from within, as opposed to simply getting in an easily destroyable frigate and trying to bombard the planet. You just need to have a security force in place until it's dealt with properly.

But this is a relatively small new mechanic, and doesn't really justify a whole expansion just to bring it in. Thus, we come to the 'real' part of the expansion.

I would like to see players get down into a Frigate and pilot it around the many systems that us Supreme Commanders go around waging war on.

But you see, when I was first thinking of this idea, I thought that it would be cool to pilot a fighter around and fighting for your chosen faction, but then I thought about the obscenely long wait time that would bring and that players would get very bored while waiting for a fleet to get built up for a Major Attack. So as a solution to this, I thought of turning these little players who go around in the Frigates into Bounty Hunters.

Yeah. We could be able to set up contracts (that are either open ended and anyone can join in, or exclusive contracts for specific hunters), and the Hunter (another player or a CPU) could go and do this contract, or refuse. On our end, we have specific levels of acceptance; Red (kill on sight), Yellow (neutral) and Green (contracted ally). As they perform missions, we can decide whether or not to like them. Each of them starts out as Yellow. If someone shows a preference to a specific side, you can set them to Red.

Naturally, us Commanders can be very specific as to the details of the contract. You know those missions that the computer players are always assigning us? Like that, only with a time limit that we choose (if we even want a time limit). Like if we call an open ended bounty on Advent Trade Ships. All Hunters (assuming you put enough money in the pot) are now gunning for them. You can decide whether or not to pay up every time someone destroys a Advent Trade Ship or to end the bounty when a hunter destroys one ship.

To our advantage, other Commanders can also collect bounties. Though Hunters need a little cash then Commanders, and Commanders are usually a little to busy to get in the open bounties, so unless it’s paying some serious cash, I think they’d just leave those things to the Hunters.

Also, I would think that Commanders can place bounties on Hunters, like if they’ve been deemed the Harbinger of Death by your exalted judgment…thus opening up reasons for Hunters and other Empires to hunt this person down (Hunters re-spawn after about five minutes, of course…I just think there should be a penalty to it).

But with all of these things, I think the Hunter should be worth your money. They need an edge to make them useful, especially later in the game. There’s the TEC Hunters, the Vasari Hunters and the Advent Hunters. Like their much larger Empirical counterparts, they each have unique abilities…they all do the same thing, but they have their own way of doing it. But while the differences between the TEC, Advent and Vasari were rather subtle, the differences between the Hunters, I think, would be a tad more pronounced.

Like the empires, each has their own tech-trees. One set of tech-trees to upgrade their on-foot weaponry and another set to upgrade their ship. This is why they need money and resources. Naturally, all of this is unfinished, and just stuff I thought up. I’ll take suggestions as I can, and if they prove up to my standards (appropriate balance, cool enough…), put them in the paper, with full credit going to the person who put in the idea.

Each Hunter, of course has a weapon for their ship and on foot and a series of special abilities that set themselves apart. How Hunter specializes themselves is up to them.

General Hunter Goodness:

Armor and Shields: All Hunters come with armor that protects them while on foot and in space from weapons fire. It can be upgraded naturally, which is necessary to maintain their spot as the best of the best…because they can’t be the best if they’re dead. Shields recharge, but don’t stop as much damage as armor. Armor requires repair, which can be done at their ship.

Phasic Cloaking: A later ability which uses Phase technology to turn the Hunter invisible for a time, both for on foot and in their Frigate. It takes quite a bit of energy, though it can be upgraded to be more energy efficient. It relies on an individual, rechargeable battery.

Computer Hacking: Naturally, these guys can act as alternative boarding crews. They can hack computers and force Mining Facilities, Trade Ports, Capital Ships and Planets to allow them to dock. They can also wreak havoc in other ways using the terminals scattered throughout the facilities and vessels they dock at.

Sensors: Naturally, each Hunter has their own set of sensor systems. The Ships have a radar function and the hunters have a ‘Vision Enhancer’ that lets them detect certain things.

TEC Hunter:

On Foot Weapon: The TEC Hunter starts off with an Auto-Rifle as its main weapon. It’s decently accurate, and can switch between semi-automatic and burst firing mode, with a fully-automatic (think machinegun) mode researchable. There’s also a shot-gun mode and a grenade launcher, as well as a scope. It can also be upgraded to be more accurate. The Rifle has infinite magazines, though they do have to reload when the magazine runs out of bullets.

In Space Weapon: Actually, there are two: A laser canon and a missile launcher. The Laser Canon can over heat if used too much and must cool. The missile launcher has limited missiles, though they can reload after a certain period of time. The hunters must lock onto a target before they can fire missiles. The laser canon can be upgraded to do more damage and cause less heat, and the missile launcher can be upgraded to hold more missiles, have faster missiles and eventually use multiple missiles at the same time, locking on multiple targets.

Special Abilities: The TEC Hunter has abilities that are, right now, more subtle than the other two hunters.

Grapple Hook: Launches a Magnetic Grapple Hook, which can be used as rappelling equipment. Rappelling from ledges and climbing up them using the hook is the TEC Hunter’s most prominent ability. It can be upgraded to have a longer range and to have an electrical stun attack when used on an enemy.

Security Override Protocols: The TEC Hunter can access better computer hacking equipment, thus allowing for them to board vessels more quickly.

Contract Negotiating: The TEC Hunter gets better returns on his contracts, getting more money and resources upon the completion of a contract.

Thruster Boost: For a short time, a TEC Hunter’s ship can turn on its afterburners, increasing it’s speed dramatically. It’s controlled by a little bar somewhere on the HUD, and can only be used while there is charge in the bar.

Thermal Visor: The TEC Hunter can use a Thermal Visor to lock onto heat signatures. It can be upgraded to have a longer range, track foot prints left over and see trip lasers.

Vasari Hunter:

On Foot Weapon: The Vasari Hunter starts off with a Bolt-Action Sniper Rifle. It’s extremely accurate, does a lot of damage, but has a slow reload time and an incredible kick-back. Upgrades include a magazine holder so you can shoot more bullets before having to reload, a faster reload time, a compression system to reduce kick and ‘Phase Bullets’, which allow for some damage to get through the shields and damage the armor.

In Space Weapon: Again, two.  A Pulse Beam and a Phase Missile system. There is very little difference between the Vasari weapons and the TEC Weapons except that the Phase Missiles can get through shields and that the Pulse Beam does more damage than the lasers, but can fire fewer shots before overloading.

Special Abilities: The Vasari has several, more pronounced special abilities.

Phasic Cloaking Field Enhancer: The Vasari’s cloaking field can get more efficient than the other two factions, allowing them to stay invisible longer and have the battery recharge faster than the rest.

System Detection Visor: This allows the Vasari Hunter to see computer systems. It can be upgraded to see the wires that connect the computers to the systems they control, to see key-cards that officers hold and to see through walls.

Explosive Mines: The Vasari Hunter can lay trip mines that explode once their laser is broken, killing the victim. It can be upgraded to have multiple charges, have Phasic cloaking, have a wider laser and to move around as needed. The Vasari Hunter can’t trip his own laser.

Advent Hunter:

On Foot Weapon: The Advent Hunter has a fully automated drone as its main weapon. It’s capable of emitting plasma charges at enemies to damage them. It’s fully automated, so the Advent Hunter can take cover while the drone attacks enemies. It can dodge enemy shots with its anti-gravity boosters. And…it’s made through a special ability. It takes a lot of energy to make, and the Hunter can only have one at a time, though she can ‘recall’ it at anytime, teleporting it instantly to the Hunter’s Side. Also, its weaponry takes up the Hunter’s Energy supply to fire, though not much. It can be upgraded to have more efficient armor and shields, more efficient weapons. Also researchable is the ability to summon two more drones with different weaponry (a focused laser and artillery launchers respectively) and the buttons the Hunter normally uses to select different weapons give out commands to the drone.

In Space Weapon: Sadly, I’m drawing a creative blank on this. I would like some suggestions on this. Please.

 

Special Abilities: Because of the nature of the Advent, I’d say they have quite a few extremely prominent ones.

Shields and Energy: As opposed to the previous two Hunters, the Advent has no armor. Instead they have one big shield bar that quickly regenerates. Using an active special ability also drains the shield bar, so it’s important for them to manage their energy economically. It can be upgraded to have an even faster regeneration rate and have more shields.

Summon Drone: Using this ability either creates a drone to fight for the Hunter, or teleports the one that’s already there. Creating a drone is more energy costly than summoning them. Can be upgraded to be slightly cheaper. Teleporting a drone has a range, however and the Hunter must maintain a specific distance from her drone to keep it.

Telekinesis: The Advent Hunter can lift things with her mind. Using the mouse to guide it and the main and secondary weapon fire to draw it in forward or backward rapidly, this makes her a deadly adversary. She can pick up crates, boxes, and even enemy troops. Telekinesis can be upgraded to be more energy efficient, for objects to move faster while using attraction (pull towards, alt fire) or repulsion (push away, primary fire). Damage from getting hit by a flying object is severe.

Clairvoyance: The Hunter can see other life forms as a grayish mist with this on. And it’s passive, so it’s always on. It can be upgraded to see the color of the life forms, thus determining their faction, and to see through walls as to see what the life forms actually are. The ‘see through walls’ only has a specific range and works somewhat like a wall hack, only the Hunter can still see the wall; it’s just see-through.

Star Walk: When this is researched, the Advent Hunter can use her energy reserves to heighten her jump. Meaning she keeps going up until her reserves are out. After using Star Walk, energy will take a few seconds to begin recharging. The Advent Hunter can sequence Star Walks to give a ‘hopping’ effect in mid air allowing her to cross long distances. She can control the direction she rises and falls.

 

 

Each of these would add a new dimension to game-play experience, the bounty system and expand SoaSE’s audience drastically, in my opinion. If FPS people don’t like playing with the Commanders, we can have game modes dedicated specifically to them.

I don’t know. I’m not sure any of the above is actually possible. Is it? And if it is, would it be a good addition? Do we even want FPS jocks to come onto our forums? Discuss, please.

9,727 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top

First off: Hello, everyone. I'm Fulcon and I like SoaSE. And I'm not afraid to admit it.
End of quote

Be afraid!  Be very afraid!

But after the last expansion, what could they do? I think they could add just a couple of *clears throat* 'features' that might not even be possible, because it clashes so completely with Sins' game engine. Well, not so much the first feature. But the rest...anyway.
End of quote

After the expansion is finished they could start work on a Sins-2.

The first feature I would like to see would be boarding parties. You know, like have Colony Ships have the added benefit of being able to capture other ships by over-coming the other ships security teams. However: If you go over the supply limit with capturing ships, the ships you're capturing without paying for with have severely reduced functionality. That would be the ideal balance for me, though simply scuttling the ship if is goes over the supply limit works too and some of you could have a better idea still.

And you could send your own boarding parties onto your own ships to deal with opposing security forces. With this mechanic, you could also create an Insurgency mechanic. Like if you capture a planet, but there's still some survivors which will try to over throw the planet from within, as opposed to simply getting in an easily destroyable frigate and trying to bombard the planet. You just need to have a security force in place until it's dealt with properly.

End of quote

How do you propose that something like that would work?  It seems like your fleet would need to overwhelm the enemy fleet first, having say, 50 ships surrounding the other guy's 5 remaining ships.  A boarding attempt would need to carry some sort of risk of loss.  Perhaps a special "boarding frigate" could be built for the purpose of capturing enemy vessels.  Maybe there could be some set probability that the ship suffering the boarding attempt would self destruct, taking out or at least significantly damaging everything in a small radius.  It's definitely something that would need to be playtested and proven in a mod or a beta release first.

This part about boarding parties and ship security reminds me a little bit of an old late '80's PC game called Star Fleet I: the War Begins.  (Has anyone else ever played that?)  That game also featured sabatours that would get lose on your capital ship, damaging and shutting down certain functions.

I don't understand the purpose of the bounty hunters and what the contracts would be for.  That might not be a bad idea for a completely separate first person type of space bounty hunter game where you would pilot a small space ship, but I don't think it has any place in Sins.  Trying to combine Sins with an FPS game seems rather silly.  People who want to play FPS will just play a real bona-fide FPS.  A Sins 4x-RTS-FPS would end up as some sort of a nightmare hodgepodge resulting in a putrid FPS game and a compromised RTS game.

What Sins really needs is some sort of a way to promote and to encourage people to play the game in online multiplayer against human opponents--what some of us call "the real Sins game"--as well as new and improved features for the online multiplayer game (support for up to 10v10 and custom map and mod auto-download please).  For Sins-2, the graphics could be improved (ala the Bailknights mod) and an option to allow extra planet types could be added (like in the Sins Plus mod).

 

 

 

Reply #2 Top

another shameless plug for MP sanchez haha but I agree, the AI does need to bring players much closer to MP play.

Reply #3 Top

Good Ideas Fulcon, keep 'em coming and we can all give them a try, or approximations of them in mods. It seems to me a mod can be anything, and that is a good thing. It doesnt limit ideas, and it many times makes the game more enjoyable by lots of other people. Just look around and see all the mods all ready out there, all dreamed up and started by people with dreams and ideas, that wanted to see something "new" or "different" or wanted to turn Sins into something that they thought would be cool.  :)

Enjoy and keep thinking up ideas and posting them, we all love it, its the life blood of modding.  :)

Take care,

Keep Gaming and Keep Modding!!!

-Teal

 

Reply #4 Top

Thank you guys so much!

Incidentally, I apologize for the hideous white back-round of my letters. The post won't fix it. :(

A MOD, huh? Hmmm...I dunno, I think I might feel a bit better if the Sins Team did this themselves, though I might just re-post (or ask a moderator to move it) to the mods catagory. Just cause, you know?

Reply #5 Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 1

First off: Hello, everyone. I'm Fulcon and I like SoaSE. And I'm not afraid to admit it.


Be afraid!  Be very afraid!


But after the last expansion, what could they do? I think they could add just a couple of *clears throat* 'features' that might not even be possible, because it clashes so completely with Sins' game engine. Well, not so much the first feature. But the rest...anyway.


After the expansion is finished they could start work on a Sins-2.


The first feature I would like to see would be boarding parties. You know, like have Colony Ships have the added benefit of being able to capture other ships by over-coming the other ships security teams. However: If you go over the supply limit with capturing ships, the ships you're capturing without paying for with have severely reduced functionality. That would be the ideal balance for me, though simply scuttling the ship if is goes over the supply limit works too and some of you could have a better idea still.


And you could send your own boarding parties onto your own ships to deal with opposing security forces. With this mechanic, you could also create an Insurgency mechanic. Like if you capture a planet, but there's still some survivors which will try to over throw the planet from within, as opposed to simply getting in an easily destroyable frigate and trying to bombard the planet. You just need to have a security force in place until it's dealt with properly.



How do you propose that something like that would work?  It seems like your fleet would need to overwhelm the enemy fleet first, having say, 50 ships surrounding the other guy's 5 remaining ships.  A boarding attempt would need to carry some sort of risk of loss.  Perhaps a special "boarding frigate" could be built for the purpose of capturing enemy vessels.  Maybe there could be some set probability that the ship suffering the boarding attempt would self destruct, taking out or at least significantly damaging everything in a small radius.  It's definitely something that would need to be playtested and proven in a mod or a beta release first.

This part about boarding parties and ship security reminds me a little bit of an old late '80's PC game called Star Fleet I: the War Begins.  (Has anyone else ever played that?)  That game also featured sabatours that would get lose on your capital ship, damaging and shutting down certain functions.

I don't understand the purpose of the bounty hunters and what the contracts would be for.  That might not be a bad idea for a completely separate first person type of space bounty hunter game where you would pilot a small space ship, but I don't think it has any place in Sins.  Trying to combine Sins with an FPS game seems rather silly.  People who want to play FPS will just play a real bona-fide FPS.  A Sins 4x-RTS-FPS would end up as some sort of a nightmare hodgepodge resulting in a putrid FPS game and a compromised RTS game.

What Sins really needs is some sort of a way to promote and to encourage people to play the game in online multiplayer against human opponents--what some of us call "the real Sins game"--as well as new and improved features for the online multiplayer game (support for up to 10v10 and custom map and mod auto-download please).  For Sins-2, the graphics could be improved (ala the Bailknights mod) and an option to allow extra planet types could be added (like in the Sins Plus mod).

 

 

 
End of DirtySanchezz's quote

 

The Contracts and Bounty Hunters, I think, would be used to replace the Pirates. The Pirates are just bounty hunters anyway, and if you're even half-way competent (imo, don't be mad if you disagree, please) easy to beat. So why not replace them with a bunch of single (but much tougher) ships with a more competent AI...a player, in other words.

And what would you use them for? Well, if you want to get a man inside, you could use them as Black Ops. Just because a fleet commander trusts a Hunter doesn't mean they can't back stab. With the boarding Mechanic (that I will now attempt to illustrate) it could work. And I would assume that IC would work hard to bring a decent FPS experience to the Hunters (you don't really need to compromise the RTS aspect just keep everything intact, IMO. They just need to re-work the bounty system and leave everything else alone).

Naturally, these are out-of-this world suggestions that clash completely with Sins. I also think they can work. Which is why I didn't write a paper that contained more traditional ideas, because there's already millions or so threads dedicated to these sort of things.

Anyway, the bording mechanic:

All ships have a troop count. This one regenerates over time (not exactly realistic) and the only way to damage it besides attacking the ships is to use boarding parties which are launched similarly to colonization.

However, you need a tractor beam to use it properly, which is where the boarding cruiser comes in (while Capital Ships can launch boarding parties, there's no guarantee that they'll hit). When you launch a bording party, you lose troops which are counted with a number. The number of troops will eventually regenerate (like with clones or drones or something) and can only regenerate if the ship/structure/planet in question is not being borded.

How Hunters fit into this is that when they board/land (if the thing they're boarding or landing on a planet), is big enough, they land in a specific section. If troops are landing, sections will fill with enemy troops. Hunter can capture sections as they go through so...and the enemy troops can capture sections right back.

And if it's a ship, they can always self distruct if nessescary (by using the scuttle button). I suppose there'd be a little hack thing where the hunter stops the scuttle if they manage to get that far. :P

And the ships are so they can join the in space battle if that's what they're supposed to do.

 EDIT: Sorry for the double post, guys. x_x

Reply #6 Top
Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 1

What Sins really needs is some sort of a way to promote and to encourage people to play the game in online multiplayer against human opponents--what some of us call "the real Sins game"--as well as new and improved features for the online multiplayer game (support for up to 10v10 and custom map and mod auto-download please).  For Sins-2, the graphics could be improved (ala the Bailknights mod) and an option to allow extra planet types could be added (like in the Sins Plus mod).

End of DirtySanchezz's quote

 

Well iw ould play more online if people werent so derogatory about new blood online. Up until a few weeks ago, i was a pirate of this game, but i saw the GOTY edition in walmart so i picked it up cuz i figured i had enough left over for entrenchment and probably Diplomacy when it comes out. I've tried playing online once and got ridiculed for not following some seemingly innate procedure that no one wanted to fill me in on. Maybe ill try again later but elitists really kill it for new players.

Reply #7 Top

 

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience Cakline.  Most Sins players are pretty decent folks and not jerks.  I'm guessing that the other players on your team just didn't want to lose the game and were trying to give you some advice.  Receiving advice from more experienced players is one way to learn more about the game and to improve--it's a very different and more challenging game when you're playing against human opponents and not AI.  Anyway, don't take any derogatory comments or trash talking anyone ever says in an online game seriously; just laugh it off and keep playing the game--don't let other people push you off the playground.

I agree that it is a very difficult game to break into today online since there are many excellent and experienced players around.  However, there are also some newer players.  (I've been seeing more new people lately, perhaps because the game is back on store shelves as a GOTY.)  It might help to view it as a challenge and to say to yourself, "If those guys can play the game at this level, I can learn to play it at this level," and to then let that fill you with self-determination and a desire to persevere.  I suggest reading the Strategy forum, especially Raging Amish's units guide (stickied I think) and also watching game replays to see what the good players do.

Reply #8 Top

*Fixed the formatting on the OP*

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Rosco_P, reply 8
*Fixed the formatting on the OP*
End of Rosco_P's quote

Thanks, man.

Reply #10 Top

To my understanding, Diplomacy is gong to be the last expansion.
End of quote

well, it's going to be the alst micro-expansion.  there's been rumors of a full expansion after that.  but only rumors, that I know of.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Orodum, reply 10

To my understanding, Diplomacy is gong to be the last expansion.



well, it's going to be the alst micro-expansion.  there's been rumors of a full expansion after that.  but only rumors, that I know of.
End of Orodum's quote

Ooh...I wonder what the big-time expansion, if there is one, is going to be?

Reply #12 Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 7
 

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience Cakline.  Most Sins players are pretty decent folks and not jerks.  I'm guessing that the other players on your team just didn't want to lose the game and were trying to give you some advice.  Receiving advice from more experienced players is one way to learn more about the game and to improve--it's a very different and more challenging game when you're playing against human opponents and not AI.  Anyway, don't take any derogatory comments or trash talking anyone ever says in an online game seriously; just laugh it off and keep playing the game--don't let other people push you off the playground.

I agree that it is a very difficult game to break into today online since there are many excellent and experienced players around.  However, there are also some newer players.  (I've been seeing more new people lately, perhaps because the game is back on store shelves as a GOTY.)  It might help to view it as a challenge and to say to yourself, "If those guys can play the game at this level, I can learn to play it at this level," and to then let that fill you with self-determination and a desire to persevere.  I suggest reading the Strategy forum, especially Raging Amish's units guide (stickied I think) and also watching game replays to see what the good players do.
End of DirtySanchezz's quote

 

I'm all for for vets discerning their experience unto me so i can enjoy myself more, but i got railed because i was a new player playing against older players like Dirty sanchez. I play Sins fairly casually, and thats how i enjoy it. i like being able to go take a leak and come back with more resources and my star base crushing some one trying to assualt my planet. Now, does that mean im angered by harcore players who go rambo? Absolutely not, im an open minded guy. But when Rambo starts yelling at me cuz im not psychic and didnt know i was supposed to be at this asteroid defending his planet it pisses me off. I told them all it was my first game online. And so far its been my only. There isnt enough people online for me to get invited to a game and say "Sorry, im too green".

 

And yes, i only got the game cuz i didnt want to rely on downloading it to be my only course for reinstalling it. IM 100% fine with the micro expansions being online only but the game itself is relly nice to have on a physical manufactured disk. The biggest disappointment in my mind is the lack of updated mods. I think taht would bring 10x as many people online to play those mods on ICO. I personally am thankful someone updated Bailknights mod cuz i love it. Makes me reconsider starting my own total conversion. (Ive always wanted tot ranslate teh Freelancer universe to an RTS type game)