point taken by -Ue_Carbon, that means that with 10 hits of 100 damage 3 will hit with full effect upon the armor/hp and the other 7 will hit the shields and suffer mitigation effects

anyways the computations are as follows

base line damage 100 applied to Advent ship with 4615 shield points and 4030 hitpoints with shield mitigation at 70% full time and armor decrease damage by 50% (both are somewhat inaccurate due to the changes in shield mitigation and armor is figured based upon many different things)

as such normal damage would be affected for 30 damage upon shields and 30 on armor after shields are down

4615/30=154 hits to drop shields then remaining 4030/30=135 154+135=289 hits total

as such phase damage would be affected for 21 (100 - 30 = 70 * 70% = 49 - 70 = 21) damage on sheilds and 15 on armor when shields are up and then 21 + 15 = 36 when shields are down

4615/21=220 hits to drop shields while 220 * 15 = 3300 damage done to armor while shields are up leaving 4030-3300=730 hps left over when sheilds are down with 36 damage applied 730/36=21 so total hits are 220+21= 241

therefore 289 hits (I forgot to round up last time) with normal damage and 241 hits with phase missiles

That is wrong.  As has already been mentioned, a phase bypass ignores mitigation, meaning it deals extra damage, which is definitely helpful.  I've said this three times now, and you've basically ignored me every time.

Phase missles BYPASS MITIGATION...

aka...

100 normal damage gets reduced to 40 damage after mitigation.

100 phase missle damage... on average... 30% of that bypasses the mitigation... so with 30% bypass chance... on average...

70 will be normal damage, and 30 will be dealt to hull.  So with 30% shield bypass you have dealt 58 damage.

thats 45% more damage.

Understand?

with 30% bypasschance... you can kill something with pathetic shields (say... a colony frig with 125 shields and 1000 health or so...)

you kill it after doing 1125 damage... that means through normal damage... you have to do 2812.5 (at 60% mitigation).... or... if you have 30% phase bypass... you only have to do 1940 damage... do the math.

Even though you killed the shields a long while ago... you had to do almost 900 damage less to kill that colony frig than your unupgraded self did.

Understand?

Lets see If I cant make this simpler and easy to understand.

Lets say your targets shield is mitigated by 50% (an easy number). You shoot it for 100 damage.

1) Without shield bypass: your shot is mitigated 50%, dealing only 50 damage.

2) At 30% bypass: Your damage is split into 70 (which gets mitigated to 35) and 30 (bypassing the mitigation), for a total of 65 damage.

50 without shield bypass vs 65 with 30% shield bypass. Those are the numbers and that is why shield bypass works.

Now earlier someone said "If the target dies without shields, the shield bypass had no effect because (x)hp + (y)shields = (z) damage." It is true that one must still do (z) damage to destroy the vessel, but that statement is untrue because shield bypass does not allow you to destroy a vessel by doing less than (z) damage, it increases the rate at which you approach (z) damage. IE it does not make LESS damage required to destroy, it INCREASES the rate of damage.

Normal Shot (100)

                                     = 50 Damage                                                       Total= 50 Damage
100------------------------->((( Shields: 50% Mitigation

Shield Bypass Shot (70+30)

                                    = 35 Damage
70-------------------------->((( Shields: 50% Mitigation

                                                                                   =30 Damage         Total= 65 Damage
30----------------------------(((-------------------------------->III Hull       

Anyone still not getting this?

** I should also mention that I only used the "split damage" scenario to keep things simple. In game, it does not actually split the damage, but it literally means "30% of the time your missile will bypass the shields entirely". What that really means is out of 100 shots (from assailants, bombers, SBs, Sentinels, pm platforms etc.), 30 will deal their FULL DAMAGE to the hull and armor. No other weapon can boast FULL DAMAGE because all vessels with shields have a MINIMUM 15% mitigation AT ALL TIMES. So any other weapons fired at a target will suffer a minimum 15% off their damage due to mitigation. This is the MAIN reason why Vasari are the best at killing enemy capital ships, as you focus fire on the cap, its mitigation maxes out reducing the damage being dealt to it (up to 70%, but generally 65%), but phase missiles allow strikes on cap ships as if they had no mitigation at all.

Also, one should note that 30% bypass is not the maximum percentage, Vasari subverters can increase the chance phase missiles will bypass, effectively increasing damage a lot. Its kinda like Cielos' designate target, but specific to a weapon type.

I see it now.  Normally, 100% of damage is reduced by 60% (etc.) due to mitigation, but with phase missiles 30% of damage goes straight to the hull while the remaining 70% of damage is mitigated by 60% (etc.) and is then applied to the craft's shields (or hull if it has no shields).  Hence, you actually 30% of total damage plus 60% of the remaining 70% of damage, rather than straight up 40% of the damage - I knew they weren't worthless!

Gj Deceiver  

Normal missiles are affected by mitigation even when the shields are depleted / down.

This means that a phase missle's bypass % is the chance that it gets an unmitigated hit on the hull.  It isn't just a 30% chance to hit the hull, it is a 30% chance to hit the hull and do OVER DOUBLE DAMAGE because it is unmitigated.  When the shield is down, you still have a 30% chance to do this extra damage.  It doesn't matter how much armor you are hitting because armor is a constant -- the more damage hits the armor/hull, the better because it is all uniformly reduced.

Because you are not getting it, let me run something like your example to demonstrate:

Lets assume target has 2240 shield, 50% armor reduction, 2000 hull, 60% mitigation, and is not regenerating.

Phase Missiles:  100 damage per cycle

30%: 15 damage to hull (30x 0.5)
70%: 28 damage to shield due to %60 mitigation (70x 0.4)

Shields will be down in 80 cycles.  Hull damage will be at 1200 (15x80) at this point.

30%: 15 damage to hull (30x 0.5)
70%: 14 damage to hull (70x 0.4 x 0.5) (Mitigation AND Armor) 
Total hull damage per cycle: 29

Remaining 800 hull will be destroyed in 28 more cycles for kill time of 108 cycles (80 shield up + 28 shield down)

Non Phase Missiles

40 damage to shield due to %60 mitigation
Shields willl be down in 56 cycles

20 damage to hull (100x 0.4 x 0.5) due to %60 mitigation AND 50%armor

100 cycles to destroy 2000 hull.  Total kill time of 156 cycles (56 shield up + 100 shield down)

Of course this is a simple example and not the exact combat mechanics, but it should illustrate the concept of what people are trying to explain to you.

If you don't believe me, get a stopwatch, and time how long it takes 10 Assailants to kill a cap with and without the 30% phase tech.

EDIT:  LOL --  I missed that there was a page 2 already and more good explanations.  Will leave this example up anyhow.

ah ok now i see where my problem lies.

its "new" for me that a shield that is allready at zero absorbs still his mitigation value even if it is only 1 hp shield it absorbs the 60% from a 100% damage shoot leaving 40 dam left and this 40 dam is again reduced to the armor mitigation.

If this truly works so in this game then i am sorry for "missleading" and how stupid this is but anyway i will test that now that i have found my error thanks to you guys

then u have mysterious lum damage  that will remove shield without firing