Sounds like you're talking about New Jedi Order....

As for Avatar, I'm sure it was pretty, I'm sure it was outstandingly well rendered. It's also a theme-hammer beating you to death. I don't like being beat to death.

Cadalancea

This (3-D) flick was without doubt the most visually stunning cinematic experience I've ever witnessed.  Everyone kept bashing it for not having a storyline, thin plot, and this and that.  I say poo poo on them because the Cinematics are everything; THEY ARE THE STORY!

All the eco-awareness undertones are nicey nice, but the tour de force impact of their delivery is a masterpiece.

Erm, not be an ass (except I am), that's incredibly shallow. So you don't give a flying frak whether or not what you're watching actually means anything, as long as it has pretty lights and nice big kaboom explosions? It's the people who want the flash but no substance that leave us with movies like Avatar.

You can call a turd a sandwich, but it's still gonna taste like shit.

Cadalancea

I would tend to disagree with both of you: the movie was definately style-over-substance, and that alienated me to a large degree, but it did have it's moments: esepcially how well-thought-out the science turned out to be. You almost never get that in the mainstream any more. And besides, it could have been much, much worse...... imagine GI Joe with Smurfs  (I actually thought that was what it was going to be in the month between when I saw a snatch of an ad on TV and read an actual review.)

i cant agree with you Cadalancea

i mean, if i want to be beat over the head with some heartwrenching story about some poor schmoe, then ill go to a 3rd world country or just watch the news.

when i watch entertainment, i want to laugh, cry, be enthralled or thrilled or any of those kinds of emotions

i dont want to go see something like District 9, and then leave the cinema extremely angry because i am disgusted at humanity for the crimes it can commit. and worst of all, i cant do anything about it except get angry and maybe run someone over with my car because of temporary insanity due to some movie with a 'meaningful' message.

entertainment is supposed to be just that, entertaining. and you take from is whatever messages you want. for instance i took from Avatar what the original Pocahontas was trying to explain.

But honestly, that message is not so important so as to require it being drummed into me at the expense of a good show. i go to movies etc to excape this shitty, fucked up thing we call reality and escape to a place where there are heros, who are beautiful, intelligent, of a higher calliber than most schmucks on the planet and where fantstical things happen like flying through a floating mountain range or you can be shot at and never get hit etc etc

i dont want that ruined with "IF WE DONT STOP DRIVING CARS NOW WE'LL DESTROY THE PLANET OMGZWTFBBQ11!!!11"

I'm sort of confused. I can't tell if you're defending Avatar or not. Because, that's what I got from the movie, in essence. A heavy handed message all wrapped up in pretty pictures. And isn't Avatar supposed to be a heartwrenching story about some poor schmoe who gets caught up doing bad things and wants to be a good person? Personally, I couldn't tell, mostly because I wanted Sully to die almost as soon as he was introduced, but that's the gist of what I'm getting other people felt/were supposed to feel.

And being able to take away what message you want? Trying to interpret your own message from Avatar is like trying to recite the lyrics of a song with someone screaming a different one at you. Then again, the message I took away from it was "Don't watch any more of Cameron's work".

Meh.

Cadalancea

I find the back-lash at Avatar most amusing. Essentially, it's like the gamers who sit around and say "story is the most important thing in a video game" and forget about the classics whos story was merely an excuse to have some amazing gameplay. People are so focused on the plot, they forget to have fun. Avatar isn't the greatest movie ever made, but it is a great movie - and judging from the Box Office Take so far, I'm not the only person who this opinion.

I wonder......

• Do the ships have awake crews to monitor and maintain them during their voyage (not the same people for the entire thing, of course, but crewmen revived in some sort of shift system), or is everybody frozen for the whole trip?
• What sort of sensory capabilities do they have? Can a ship coming to Centauri detect another ship heading in the opposite direction... and can they communicate?
• Finally, the voyage supposedly takes 5.25 years one way (I may not remeber the exact number correctly, but it was somewhere there). But is that Earth years or ship years. At speeds fairly close to that of light, they are two very different things......

Being a "plotist" myself, I find more amusing the people who rant about having movies with political subtexts, yet didn't seem to mind the militarism of Transformers or Terminator's technophobia.

Speaking of technophobia, I would prefer a sequel that was a bit less....... Ludditian.

OK I saw this movie about 2 weeks ago and here is my take on it.

If you are not into hippy message movies then I have bad news for you....all of your biggest concerns about this movie are true. The message is there, and it is in no way subtle. Earth is destroyed by global warming, or at least by human activity. The humans are evil, mostly white, obviously western in culture, and controlled by a particularly evil big business. The natives are noble, based on a cross between African and Native American tribal cultures, in tune with nature and sympathetic. There is no doubt straight from the start that humans = bad, Navi = good. There is at least one pot shot taken at the Bush administration(shock and awe). The big business humans are so evil they do not even bother to check the entire moon for stronger concentrations of unobtanium before deciding their only option is to eradicate or at least displace the natives. Even the religion of the natives is carefully constructed so that it lends a mystical element to the film while also making it clear that there is no real spirituality involved. There is no God here, or any supernatural force involved at all. But you know what? Why would you expect anything different? If you don't know Hollywood by now, you're never going to get it. Artistic types tend towards that sort of politics. Understand that going in to this movie.

You know what else? This is a very entertaining movie. It is totally immersive, the effects are outstanding, and it is fast paced enough that even if you do not like the message that the movie is admittedly kind of shoving down your throat, you can lose yourself in the movie enough to let it slide. Sigourney Weaver's character is the only one that seems multi-dimensional to me, but I also enjoyed the main character and the head marine(he really kicked butt). The head corporate guy who was played by that guy from Saving Private Ryan was rather lame though. I apologize for not remembering the characters names. Also, I haven't seen anyone else comment on this so I have to ask.....was I the only one who almost tried to swat the Pandora insects out of my face the first time I saw them flying out of the screen?

For those of you saying you will wait until it comes out on DVD.....I have heard that the DVD's will not be in 3D. From what I understand the technology that makes it 3D in the theater does not translate to the DVD format. I'm not sure if they have to use two projectors to get the two different images on the screen....if so perhaps that is why it doesn't translate. Can anyone else confirm that the DVD's will not be in 3D? Did anyone else who saw the movie notice if two projectors were used? In my opinion you will lose alot of the feel of the movie if you do not see it in 3D. It might not even be worth watching on DVD if what I have heard is true.

3D works on DVD, but the small screen prevents it from living up to par of theaters.

So because the religion is natural there is no spirituality involved? Spirituality is not equal to supernaturalism(wikipedia) 

Besides what do you know about aliens from another world?

That they smell a bit off.

the video game has the ability to be played in 3D so i dont see why dvd wouldnt...

besides, Spy Kids 3D was in 3D on DVD =P i have to agree with irrational, its in 3D just not as good as a theatre...

i have to agree there was a msg in the movie about humans being evil and navi being good and the whoel environmentalism thing... but idn, i didnt feel liek it was a lecture, more it felt like it was just typical cinema exaggeration to give better immersion in the film...

also, as for the spirituality thing... first, i dont see why Pogue dismissed the religion so offhandedly, simply because there was a scientific explanation behind the abilities of Aiwah... i mean, once we understand how God did it (and trust me, we will eventually), it will be the same with our religion. Creating a planet in 7 days will be easy once we understand the process and the 'spirituality' or 'supernatural' nature (as Pogue put it) of our religion will dissappear...

to be honest i prefer this 'style' of religion, no one kills in the name of it (well, sure they are defending but i think we can all agree thats because of the aggressive humans), no one thinks their version is superior... honestly this was the best possible way to introduce religion without bringing the typical human shit into it about which is right etc etc...

I agree, to often religions will attempt to cow me with thought of eternal damnation and suffering if I don't pick them, but then there's another church telling me the opposite, then there's a third telling me the opposite of both, and.... you get the picture. I personally believe in Natural Pantheism (the information processing in our brains is united with the processing power from all else, giving the universe itself limited intelligence.) and think that naturalistic religion like the Na,vi one is less provacative and more productive, so I have to say, Avatar rocks in this regard and should be regarded as a spirtual lesson (no indoctrination lol   ) . peace out. 

It's interesting how different people see different things in the Na'avi "spirituality"..... one wonders if this was intentional on the part of Cameron......

Being an agnostic with athiest leanings, I personally invisioned the Na'avi mysticism as being more of a supernaturally-termed explanation of the braintree sentience, strictly limited to explaining that one facet of their environment (as opposed to providing an entire framework of life and reality, as most religiony religions do).

Im confused..aren't the human evil and such in Avatar..like in District 9?

Also..China named one of thier mountains Avatar...talk about being against that movie.

Don't want to pass a Devil's advocate but....wasn't that movie alledgedly written some 15-20 years ago, when Bush was just daddy's lil' drunk coke addict?..Or did you mean Bush Senior?

I think Rez is referring to the fact that D9 had less action and SFX than Avatar.... he doesn't care terribly much if there is a message, as long as there's other stuff in there as well. I think.

what im saying, is i want to be entertained, i want to be teleported away from the world of beaurecrats and governments and big corporations and populations like blind, dumb sheep (for those of you who are thick, im talking about our planet here), and put into a world where there are heroes, and possibilities, and 'magic' for lack of a better term.

i dont care about the SFX, its nice, and its a great tool for doing something like Avatar, but its not the be all and end all. what i dont want, is some pining, heartfelt, whack-you-over-the-head message about how south africans (and, by extension, humans in general) can be total fucking dickheads... if i want that i can go look out the goddamn window. i ESPECIALLY am infuriated when a movie lies to people to entice them to come see it. Like i said, D9 was advertised as a sci-fi action movie. hoenstly, i expected it to be more like Avatar. im fine with the humans being evil, i know we are, but the issue is instead of it being... idn.. light-hearted, it really got grimy and dirty. some people see that as a plus. people like me, who see this shit everyday in the paper and on the internet, ARE NOT FUCKING INTERESTED!

Avatar had a message, yes, but it was delivered in the fashion of an old fable (like the Tortoise and the Hare?), while D9 jumps up, spits in your face and screams YOU BELONG TO A RACE OF FUCKING WORMS, HERE, IM SHOWING IT TO YOU, DO YOU LIKE IT? HERE, TAKE SOME MORE, HAVE A SECOND HELPING. look at some of the most popular movies ever released: Star Wars, Back to the Future, The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, THE TWILIGHT SAGA! Girls all over the world are falling in love with the walking dead who SUCK THE BLOOD OUT OF YOU TO SURVIVE, instead of the latest OC/Neighbors/Gossip Girl whatshisname.

i suppose thats why im not interested in 'reality' tv either. i see enough 'real life' (funnily enough) IN real life. i dont need it when i want to unwind from the shitty-ness of reality.

I watched it in 3D and it's a great movie!   James Cameron have always been my favorite director ever since Terminator and with Terminator II he became the only director I knew the name of.

Everything is so believeable!   A ruthless corporation wants a resource and brings along lots of mercenarys without scruples to fight for them. A people who live in harmony with nature and which communes with Natures spirit (Ew'ya) are in the way of the richest mineral deposit. So what to do?   First try with diplomacy and if that doesn't work, shoot them. Simple huh?

It was fun when Jake tried his avatar for the first time. Laughing at being able to walk again and just ran out and tried the body. Pointing his gun at every creature he sees (I would have done the same.)

When he ran from the monsters of the forest, just knew there was gonna be a scene like that. The flowers that popped back into the ground was also a nice touch.

The Elven girl first thought him to a complete idiot but later grew to like him was also nice.

My favorite character was without a doubt Colonel Quaritch!   He's the type that was my idol when I was 10 years old and still is!   I really need to get to the military and become like him

I mean, who can resist such bad-assery?

I can just hear Quadritch saying: "Time to BURN!"

The Colonel had some cool moments: "MASK ON! *kicks open the door*     Breaks the rules just enough and when he needs too. And when his B52 is crashing he doesn't look scared or anything. He just gets into the AMP and jumps ship to go and kill Jake.

OOOH I loved it when he gotted the knife. Almost as good as Trouser in RE IV. "Come to papa....SQUISH!   Powerful ridinganimal dies. Then the finish 2 seconds after. WAM!   Military effectiveness, so cool!

And this damn message some people talk about.....I didn't see a message about environmental disaster except in the very end. And reading "shock and awe" to bush??   That must be an american thing....

Point out the "messages" that found please cause I sure as hell can't find them. And even if I did, I don't care!   Jeez some people find "messages", signs'n'clues in everything it seems....

Scoutdog

Are you really 15..?    You sound like a professor or an EPIC nerd who lives in the naturescience lab or something....I thought western 15-yearolds focused on getting drunk and scoring. You seem to be an extreme exception though. But being so insistent on plot and sense....you go too far....if you said that in normal peoples company and ESPECIALLY in other 15-yearolds company they would call you a weirdo and be right!

wow... compliment, insult, racial profiling and age discrimination all in 4 lines.... thats gotta be some kind of record...

I watched it in 3D some weeks ago. I paid to watch it. And when I left the cinema I didn't regret to spend that money (unlike with other movies...). Therefore and in my book, it is a good movie. Best movie ever? No, I'd choose Aliens any day over Avatar but it's still one of the best movies I have watched (even Pandorum or Event Horizon would score better).

Even with this: Spoiler I like the sotry of the movie. Not the best thing ever but at least it makes sense, has some nice characters, good visuals... Not hardcore science fiction? Well, all science fiction is in the end fiction or more precisely fantasy (yeah, Star Wars is fantasy, yay!) so who cares*? I can enjoy reading hardcore science fiction books but I sure prefer soap operas. I don't mind being able to learn and be entertained with that kind of harcore stuff while watching a movie or reading a book (a crew in a broken ship travelling at relativistic speed while the universe flourish around them and the social conflicts of the trapped crew, balls of fire falling over earth and exploding on metallic "targets" due to a broken alien ship dropping antimatter over the planet...). But although we are nothing but a group of specialized cells working together for survival, I find human interactions more interesting than to why artifical gravity beyond rotation of the ship is too complex (just an example). I like Soap Opera mixed with hard scifi though (loved this book due to that: El Refugio (I don't think it's translated though?)

* except of those who want to see things as... realistic as possible. Which is not a bad thing but if I don't expect to watch Discovery Channel movies in the cinema.

well, it is called Science Fiction...

Yeah, but it's seems it's leaning more toward fiction than sicenece nowadays...not Avatar specifically, jsut a slow but stable curve toward some sort of Fantasy Fiction...IN SPACE, rather than science fiction.

At least they haven't exploited the cyberpunk genre to the bone, so maybe there's hope

I finally saw it. 3d IMAX. I must say, the 3d looked waaay better than I thought it would. I was expecting the kind of 3d you get with those cheap red+blue flimsy cardboard glasses. I was blown away by how awesome it looked.

That being said, I didn't really care for the story. It was just too... obvious. Nothing happened that I wasn't expecting to happen, and I could see a lot of it coming. Where are the nukes? Why bother with the whole "battle" thing when you can just blast all the aliens away? And how did "unobtainium" make it in as a name? Seriously, that's so uncreative it's not even funny.

I also think it went a little too long. There was a lot that probably could have been cut out, without any loss to the story. I think Avatar, more than anything else, was meant to say "look at all the cool #$%& we can do with special effects!" That's not to say it was a bad movie, I still liked it, but I don't think plot was its strongpoint.