This.

While I also would like some more substance, or more differentiated states of relationships and treaties / trade options, I'm glad they develop an expansion that seems to be geared more towards play vs. AI instead of a super-balanced multiplayer addon.

I concur!

      No one challenged me on the fact that the whole add-on is pointless once you get down to the last two teams. There should be something in this add-on that you can use single player end game.

     The Devs stated that this add on was designed w/ locked teams in mind, but I don't see it.

Pacts work quite well with locked teams, since they can be gotten then, too. Also, that Diplomatic Victory Condition.

1v1, you're mainly looking at Pirate Missions, beefed up pirates in general, and game settings.

Diplomacy's got a lot of changes, but they're a lot more subtle than Entrenchment.

Just as a matter of interest, are you using the hotfix to beta 3 or just the original beta 3 installment.

I say this because the game I am just playing, ( admittedly I have not completed this game yet, and It is the only game I have played since the hot fix was downloaded). An unlocked teams against 8 random AI game. I have been finding it quite challenging to get beyond a peace treaty with a neighboring AI. Every time I send in an envoy to 1 of his GW's, another AI, that I am warring with, seems to be going out of its way to ping off my envoys. This seems to me to be a direct attempt by my enemy to thwart my attempts at forming pacts and an alliance with another faction.

Maybee it s just me, how I play and have the teams unlocked or something. Or perhaps this is one of the differences between original beta 3 and the hotfix for it. But I'd have to say that it has'nt been too easy and to simple for me.

I am liking this aspect though.

I think if Entrenchment and Diplomacy was the expansion pack that sold for $20, people would not complain about little content.  Remember this is a micro expansion and NOT a full expansion.  Expansions in stores generally sell for $29.99, so try to envision these micro expansions as 1/3 that amount of content.  I have bought expansions for other games at $29.99 that had very little content.

Very true javajeff, the issue though is not the amount of content, it's the type/quality of content being implemented.

Not complaining about quantity really.....It just seems of all the direction they could have gone this expansion would not have been my choice. Sins is after all a space conquest game, I don't believe the game should end with everyone loving each other.

BTW the envoy ship needs some type of military advantage incorperated into it, at the very end there is no need for it. When the last two teams are left, what's the point of building envoy ships?

Envoys are of some use in culture warfare... how about if the envoy ship was also some sort of archaeology specialist ship as well, so you could get a discount on exploring a planet with one in a gravwell, would that be enough?

Why shouldn't AI appear in multiplayer if it gets good enough?  If the AI starts to make single player more enjoyable it becomes more viable in multiplayer as well.  Just increasing resource cheats won't help if an AI replacing a human won't get the cheat, however.  Better singleplayer might make it easier to have a 3 sided multiplayer game, with a few AI added to prevent a simple 2v1, though the continually requested feature where only a limited number of players could win an unlocked game would have to be implemented..   Then negotiation skills would be tested in multiplayer as well...  Three-sided multiplayer games are a non-starter without a few AI, and after all the game will always have militia... perhaps some players would find it more amusing to finish off their opponents by proxy, like your feed type in current multiplayer?! 

For the record, my view is completely opposites to wbino's

I have to say that I think Diplomacy makes this game a much better single player experience.  I think they are going in the perfect direction.  Does anyone play Civilization IV?  I think that is what they are trying to do with an RTS.

I agree. This game was never intended to be just another space-RTS. It was intended to be a RT4X. Diplomacy was always its weak side. Focusing on that IS a good idea. The 4X game needs a diplomacy element. Okay i see the disapointment about the short military side, but thats clearly not what the expansion is intended for.

Lets take a look on relations without diplomacy:

AI's were giving missions and you could get respect for completing those missions. This could be used to negotiate arrangements like cheasefires or teaming up with AI's. Thats VERY one sided.

WITH diplomacy you get:

Multiple ways of generating respect. If you do not like missions or bribing you can send envoys now. It might seem easy to send a ship over and get respect but... the enemy can do the same. Also those ships can be targeted. The pirate negotiations also have improved giving more tactical options. You get lots of treaties to make use of your respect. You can now OFFER missions (a player should ALWAYS be able to have the same options as an AI), You can demand tributes.

The mechanics are quite good and offer a lot of sheming and backstabbing (and i hope the AI learns to backstab well on diplomatic endavours). In my opinion it suceeds at adding a layer to the game that was glaringly absent.

I agree however there could be also some focus on espionage. After all here COULD some new offensive units slip in also pleasing those wich play quicker, more direct engagements with fewer opponents.

I honestly don't think the biggest gripe is lack of military additions. I think it's the exact opposite. The current diplomacy feature doesn't feel like it's changed gameplay much. It's still the same basic strategy "eliminate all other opponents through conquest". Diplomacy is only giving buffs instead of new strategic methods.

We'll see when the new victory condition comes out.

Oh, it has. Being able to offer missions and improving relations without missions are surely powerful gameplay alterations wich can clearly affect your chances at eliminating your opponents through conquest.

   What if most tech upgrades were a structure instead of just a marked tab? This way they could be targeted, for instance what if the Settlers upgrade was a civilian starbase or a targetable city on the surface of the planets?

   Armour pacts and such would be specalized factories as opposed to just a tech tree option. This could include any tech that would require research.

Yes, we got what? 3-4 ways of "improving" relationship now?
I don't think that's "Multiple" enough.
Tactical solution round pirates? Sure, it adds some flavour, but come on, they've added 1 new function to the pirates, the possebilities that presented was and is limited, you send them on a raid to a planet of your choice, finito, that was all folks.

And yes, the AI tends to spam convoy ships, I like it, means he has less room for combat ships, and when i declare war on him, he doesn't go and destroy the convoys, to free up space. No, he retrieves them to his planets. And I don't have to care about 'em, because they can't do a squid towards me.

As I see it. If there is to be some talk about diplomacy, then there needs to be some talk about politics.
And this game lacks politics.

My 2 cents.

Edit: How exactly is the diplomacy aimed towards singleplayer? The AI doesn't use the new pirat function, as far as I know, they don't build the Super weapon. They can make pacts, but that's about it.
The Super Weapon is set on auto fire automatically when it is build, so please add the possebility to build it, to atleast the viciouse settings.
And enable them to use the pirates aswell.

We all know the AI is not up to standart currently. Its still a beta with much changes happening. Its to early.

The AI has been getting a lot of work internally the past few weeks for Diplomacy. It's reached a point where I'm finding it difficult to win with just a few Hard AI's present.

Yeah, but you barely play Sins.

^Hah!

The game is currently in beta.  If I am correct, the developers have newer releases than what we are currently playing.  Anyone judging the AI and Diplomatic options should wait until the final release to judge it.  My only complaint is that micro expansions tend to split online communities for those that like online multiplayer since everyone needs to buy all of them.  However, Sins of a Solar Empire Trinity should bring in alot of new gamers with all of the expansions.

I REALLY want to see a spy ship with some cool espionage abilities. 

If we do not let the developers know what we think, likes nor dislikes about a game in progress, we could end up with something that 90% of the community just doesn't want!
I just don't want to risk seeing a lovely game, be turned into some pink, fuzzy ball, when all I wanted was something to drive the background story forward. Something that makes an impact on how one plays, like Entrenchment did.

So what if one gets 10% more metal per second because of some pact? I'm not going to change my strategy for crushing the person because of it. I won't be building any type of ships to counter the pact, heck, I won't even know if you have the pact or not.
And I know it's an micro exp. But the expectations is set at the level Entrenchment left it at. As it is now, I find the mod Distant Stars to add more then Diplomacy. So I sincerely hope that they will add some more content before it goes live.