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Frostflare

Join Date 12/2008

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Reall, REALLY Dumb Question

Diplomacy Points

Okay, so this is gonna sound pretty stupid, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to achieve a diplomatic victory. I tried playing as TEC against an Advent normal aggressive AI, and by the time I had 12 diplomatic points, the Advent AI had 124!

Here's how it goes:

1). Build fleet for "creeping" and defense

2). Research Envoy and Envoy abilities; do research that appears to give you a "diplomacy bonus"

3). Deploy Envoys to systems bordering on Advent space -- supposedly they accure Diplomacy points as time goes by

4). Occasionally make entry into Advent systems and use the Envoy's abilities (since the Advent aggressively attack the Envoys whenever they see one). And I never saw an Advent use a single Envoy or hand me a single mission; yet they had a huge diplomacy advantage. What gives?

The Envoy works fine in team games, because you send one of them into each allied gravity well and everybody wins. But I can't for the life of me figure out how to accrue diplomacy points against a hostile AI. For that matter, I can't figure out how to read any of the diplomacy data in the diplomacy tab.

Please tell me I'm not retarded in some way. That would kinda suck.

EDIT: I'm not competitive at playing Sins of a Solar Empire, but I'm not incompetent, either. I can deal with a pair of hard AIs allied against me, for whatever that's worth. I can win militarily; now I'm trying to win diplomatically.

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lol, wish I could help. First time I had diplomatic victory on was in a 3 star game 70ish planets, and max players. Won through DipVic before I'd even left my starting star, never so much as touched anyone but the 3 other empires I started with.

Happened fast, and without even trying to make it happen, was actually pretty annoyed because I wasn't done with that game yet, kind of the opposite of your problem

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This is a quote from Annatar11 on how it works in a thread a few pages back. (Search function is your friend ya know...)

"Diplomacy points are gained when a player's total positive relation bonuses with all other players are greater than the penalties. So, say, if in a 4 player game you have a total of 23 positive points and 18 negative, you'll be gaining points. The greater the difference, the faster the rate of gain. So if you get it to 30 positive and 11 negative, you'll gain points faster.

You can hover your mouse over the current point display to see your overall relations status (positive or negative), and the rate of change of diplomacy points."

Thats my good deed for the day, now back to being a gremlin.

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Quoting dragoaskani,

reply 2

This is a quote from Annatar11 on how it works in a thread a few pages back. (Search function is your friend ya know...)

"Diplomacy points are gained when a player's total positive relation bonuses with all other players are greater than the penalties. So, say, if in a 4 player game you have a total of 23 positive points and 18 negative, you'll be gaining points. The greater the difference, the faster the rate of gain. So if you get it to 30 positive and 11 negative, you'll gain points faster.

You can hover your mouse over the current point display to see your overall relations status (positive or negative), and the rate of change of diplomacy points."

Thats my good deed for the day, now back to being a gremlin.

I used the search function and found nothing; perhaps I looked in the wrong place. But I thank you for the reminder. I also gave you karma for your trouble.

That said, you've explained Diplomacy points and I understand them now: for faster acquisition of diplomacy points, get moar relation bonuses.

...How do you get relation bonuses?

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Quoting Frostflare,

reply 3

Quoting dragoaskani, reply 2This is a quote from Annatar11 on how it works in a thread a few pages back. (Search function is your friend ya know...)

"Diplomacy points are gained when a player's total positive relation bonuses with all other players are greater than the penalties. So, say, if in a 4 player game you have a total of 23 positive points and 18 negative, you'll be gaining points. The greater the difference, the faster the rate of gain. So if you get it to 30 positive and 11 negative, you'll gain points faster.

You can hover your mouse over the current point display to see your overall relations status (positive or negative), and the rate of change of diplomacy points."

Thats my good deed for the day, now back to being a gremlin.
I used the search function and found nothing; perhaps I looked in the wrong place. But I thank you for the reminder. I also gave you karma for your trouble.

That said, you've explained Diplomacy points and I understand them now: for faster acquisition of diplomacy points, get moar relation bonuses.

...How do you get relation bonuses?

Last good deed for the day

Missions, envoys, gifting credits, metal, crystal. Just for starters. Mouseover the number rating for your Diplomacy with a faction to see whats giving you the score you got.

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Also, Frost, bear in mind that the AI gets a progressive linear boost to it's AI -> Human relations; This was recently made to be a bit more gradual with the 1.01 patch, but the fact of the matter is that the deck is heavily stacked against you in Diplomatic Victory 1v1 games. The AI will slowly but surely gain a positive relation to you, but the only way you'll be gaining any relation is through direct action. To see the AI bonus in action, just keep tabs on the Relation screen, checking both direction (You -> Opponent and Opponent -> You) and take a look at all the factors in the infocard when you mouse over the relationship portraits.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a pretty steep climb you've got ahead of you in a 1v1 situation for sure! You might want to try a broader game, say a 6P FFA, then you can start forging some genuine alliances while you make one or two enemies, trying to always keep yourself in the overall positive picture.

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Diplomatic victory in a 1 v 1 situation against AI? Well, as far as I can tell, you are not going to exceed the AI in gaining diplomacy points in a 1 v 1 due to the AI relationship bonus with humans IF you destroy his ships because you will be hurt more by the military actions penalty than he will. That being said, what you probably want to do is to form a ceasefire with him quick and early before any major battles take place. This can be done by teching the relationship bonus techs and the resource giving techs. Envoys can help here too (heck, try using the Envoys to distract the AI). Once you have a relationship level of about 4-5, ask for a ceasefire and then Envoy spam the crap out of him. The AI relationship bonus will only help them get to a relationship level of 10...any higher than that and it is all Envoys.

Never tried this out myself but this should work unless the AI will revoke your ceasefire because he has nothing left to attack.

Actually, now that I think about it, you could probably micro a couple Envoys to constantly be on his planets by just having them jump deeper into enemy territory when they try to attack it (diplomatic immunity helps too). Cycling envoys on opposite ends of the grav well back and forth on a planet where the AI keeps his fleet will probably keep him stuck there.

This is all theorycraft but I am really curious if it would work.

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