Advent Envoy

Other than pacts I don't see the real benefit of it

from Sins Forums

I tried to compare envoys in term of usefulness other than boosting relations and thus making pacts.

 

TEC envoy is useful to player that sends them up. It gives credit boost,raises trade for ally, and gives population reproduction boost.

 

Vasari envoy is useful if u want to help player. It gives resource extraction and production boost, heals planet and makes planet invulnerable for short period of time

 

Advent envoy helps with culture production, sacrifice himself to boosts relations and helps with planet allegiance if cultured by enemy 

 

Now to my problem with Advent envoy:

TEC and Vasari envoys on first research help either player that sends them or ally. As for Advent envoy it only helps if planet produces culture which as with my experience doesn't happen on every planet. In addition player has to research and build culture center.

(At this point I must say that I mainly play online with teams locked)

As for second research advent envoy sacrifices himself for relations boost. If u allied u don't need relation boost other than for pacts. And when envoy is sacrificed player has to build another and send to same planet in order to maintain relations. It costs additional credits and resources.

The only thing i like is third research quell unrest. It goes to same league with what TEC and Vasari envoys do.

 

I think 1st and 2nd research need to be rethought as they don't go with the same pace as envoys from other races go.

Suggestion:

For first research since culture is advent thing envoy should if there is no culture center on planet produce culture which would count toward planet owner so planet produces some culture.

For second research i think sacrifice is to costly. Instead why not raise maximum relationship bonus per planet or make that maximum relationship bonus its achieved quicker in comparison with TEC or Advent.

The other way second research could be changed is that it could give planet a shield or mitigation.

 

Please share your thoughts.

 

Greg

6,337 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with you greg.Advent already got the shaft with pacts and their envoy is just terrible.I like your suggestions.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe this is meant to counter the complaints that the advent are too OP? After all, they don't seem like they would be too diplomatic now would they...

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

The Advent envoy abilities are in fluff with the race design.  They're religous to the point of zeal, and technologically advanced.  They more or less would look down on other races, so their definition of 'helping' would mainly come in the form of 'religous guidance'; or in game terms, culture boosts.

Benefit-wise, Advent pacts and envoys are selfish.  Things like the culture boost, culture pact, beam pact, and shield pact are far more beneficial to another Advent player than TEC or Visari.  TEC and Visari make a good team, but Advent works best with Advent.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with the following two points:

 

1) Advent envoys are fine as is.

2) Advent envoys suck compared to other enjoys.

 

I particularly agree with lbgsloan's points.  The pacts I can offer as Advent are GREAT for me.  Being able to get those pacts up is is a good enough reason to spam envoys.  The only thing that might be reasonable to add to Advent envoys, given their culture-based abilities, is changing the culture rate cap for the planet they're in orbit around.

 

The culture rate cap is probably the only thing that stops Advent from being completely ridiculous.  I mean, without that cap, concentrated fire from Deliverance Engines could neutralize planets as fast as Novaliths.  Except, of course, it would be AoE.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

one thing i would like is the beam pact be changed to a laser pact. That way it doesnt only affect caps and SBs if you are not Advent. Maybe for Vas pulse guns could be upgraded by the laser pact.

Right now Beam pact sucks, unless you are another advent player. And there should be some diversity in who you give pacts to.

 

[_]-Uber

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

To GoaFan77 Maybe this is meant to counter the complaints that the advent are too OP? After all, they don't seem like they would be too diplomatic now would they...

 

Yes they were OP I agree, but since ilum fix and Vasari cap ship bomber fix they are weakest race.

 

To TheEvidence 1) Advent envoys are fine as is.

                       2) Advent envoys suck compared to other enjoys.

It seems like u contradict yourself. You said you like them and that they suck. 

2 nd point explains precisely my problem with them. They suck and in my opinion they need to be changed for the sake of balance between races. Yes they seam like zealots and their pacts are egoistic but if I play advent and there is no other advent my team, team has disadvantage as they get no benefits from my envoys and no benefits from my pacts. And since Advent are weakest  race at the moment there is not many people outside playing with them.

 

To top vasari And there should be some diversity who you give pacts to.

Couldn't agree more. 

 

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting top, reply 5
one thing i would like is the beam pact be changed to a laser pact. That way it doesnt only affect caps and SBs if you are not Advent. Maybe for Vas pulse guns could be upgraded by the laser pact.

Right now Beam pact sucks, unless you are another advent player. And there should be some diversity in who you give pacts to.

 

[_]-Uber
End of top's quote

This is a pretty good idea actually, if Visari pulse weapons are included.  Boosting each race's light frigate damage late game would help them remain competitive with other ship types.

As for the envoy, dumping the sacrifice skill for something more useful would be nice, but the problem is what to give it?  Envoys are only meant to boost planets, and so far we already have resource rate and build time, trade income, population growth, healing, culture, alligence, and invulnerability.  What else is there?  Structure build time?  Not really an Advent racial strength.  Reduced costs?  Same issue.  I have no idea, and Ironclad probably reached the same conclusion.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Greg30007,

I see no contradiction.  They suck, and I don't think they need to change.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

how about alliegence boost for planet

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

alliegance would definitely be powerful tool worth building envoys 

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Do mean mean a normal alliegance boost (like culture) or a boost to the alliegance cap (like from Allure of the Unity or Induced Reverence)?

 

Boosting the cap would probably be a more powerful effect, and that's definitely be a very Adventy ability.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting top, reply 5
one thing i would like is the beam pact be changed to a laser pact. That way it doesnt only affect caps and SBs if you are not Advent. Maybe for Vas pulse guns could be upgraded by the laser pact.

Right now Beam pact sucks, unless you are another advent player. And there should be some diversity in who you give pacts to.

 

[_]-Uber
End of top's quote

I'm not sure if that'd actually help a lot. Advent obviously benefits from a laser boost, but TEC only has it's caps, starbase, LFs, and scouts that really benefit from it. And the Vasari... get nothing. At least pulse beams get upgraded by the beam pact.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

That's way better than what TEC gets from beams.  As for Visari, just include skirmisher weapons.  If that can't be done, oh well.  Advent doesn't get anything from the TEC missile pact, and it's not like Visari were getting anything from the beam upgrade.