About as noob as they come...

Honestly.

I've never really been good at RTS's, but this one looks amazing. I want to play it, but I keep getting destroyed in a 1v1 fight with an easy bot. X|

 

I've some basic questions that I think will help my game (couldn't hurt)...

(TEC) I've been playing the Kol with 2 Sora...? (the carrier ones if that's not what they're called). What should I change this to? It's alright for taking out swarms of carriers as the easy AI is apt to send, but not much else.

What's better- tons of light frigates, or a few high end heavy cruisers? (or what?)

Why the heck do I never have enough resources? I upgrade, colonize, etc... Still the enemy comes in with 40,000,000,000 ships when I have 30 (heavy cruisers and the carrier cruisers) or so. (This is at the end of an hour or 2. Usually because I'm struggling to fight off pirates for most of the time)

How important is micromanaging? (Could never do well at WC3 because I suck at this)

Should I focus fire? On what?

What upgrades should I develop first? (obviously the mining ones, but what else?)

What should I put in each gravity well? I run out of room so fast. Usually I end up without a frigate-maker-thing because of this. The first game I played I got owned because he influenced all my worlds away. Ever since I've been paranoid and make a propaganda machine in every one.

How should I use mines? They seem fairly ineffective, even when they hit.

How much cash should I use on bounty? It seems like no matter what I do I'm the target, so should I even bother?

 

This is not all of them, but I think it will be a good place to start, at least.

Thanks in advance! :D

 

3,796 views 11 replies
Reply #1 Top

"I've never really been good at RTS's, but this one looks amazing. I want to play it, but I keep getting destroyed in a 1v1 fight with an easy bot. X| "

We all do at first, just hang in there. First of all what version of the game are you playing, some of the strategies will be different for the several versions/expansions that are out there.

 

"(TEC) I've been playing the Kol with 2 Sora...? (the carrier ones if that's not what they're called). What should I change this to? It's alright for taking out swarms of carriers as the easy AI is apt to send, but not much else."

In the most recent version of Sins on all three expansions, the Kol battleship is not considered a good capital ship. It takes a lot of antimatter for everything that it does and even then it is not that great. Try swapping it for a Marza dreadnought, despite the text that says its a planet bombardment ship, Radiation Bomb and Missile Barrage are great anti frigate abilities and it is a staple of TEC players. Can't take quite as much punishment as a Kol but it is well worth it.

"What's better- tons of light frigates, or a few high end heavy cruisers? (or what?)"

Depends on what your enemy is throughing at you. Heavy cruisers are good against the widest array of ships, but they have realitively low fire power compared to the equivelent amount of say Long Range Missile (LRM) frigates. They also get torn to shreads by bombers. Like many other strategy games, the best fleet for you to have is one that counters your enemy best. However, I don't think this is why you are having problems.

"Why the heck do I never have enough resources? I upgrade, colonize, etc... Still the enemy comes in with 40,000,000,000 ships when I have 30 (heavy cruisers and the carrier cruisers) or so. (This is at the end of an hour or 2. Usually because I'm struggling to fight off pirates for most of the time)"

Noobs tend to get into a couple of problems here. 1. They don't upgrade planet infustructure. Once you've secured the planet (destroyed the siege frigates) you must upgrade this ASAP so that you don't have negative credit income. After that you can just upgrade it as your population limit hits the max for better credit income. 2. They don't expand fast enough. Colonizing planets is by far the cheapest way to expand your economy in terms of how fast they pay themselves off (with extractors). They also give you more strategic positions, so you should only start investing in other economic methods once you can no longer easily expand (I.e. only your enemies planets are left). 3. They get trade ports to quick. Trade ports are your engine of wealth late game, especially for TEC, but they are somewhat expensive and can kill your economy late game. Getting trade too quickly can hurt your military in the short term and allow your enemy to attack and destroy them before you can start making profit on them. Also, as a rule of thumb you'll want enough planets so that you can form at least a 4 planet "trade chain". 4. They waste a lot of money on bounty. Really a lot of players keep the pirates off all the time (you can set their raids off in the map settings before you start a map) and they seriously hurt players trying to learn the game. There is absolutely no shame in keeping them off until you get the hang of things, and most mutliplayer games actually keep them off.

"How important is micromanaging? (Could never do well at WC3 because I suck at this)"

Somewhat important, and is often the deciding factor for multiplayer, but when it comes straight down to it Sins unit AI is pretty good. Ships will automatically target enemy ships they do the most damage against. Your support cruisers will actually heal your fleet without much if any interaction. Sometimes you'll want to change their engagement range to keep lone ships from charging groups of enemy ships (this is especially common with flak frigates), but it is really pretty good. A couple of the capital ship abilities are the only things you'll really want to always micro manage.

"Should I focus fire? On what?"

Again it depends. Against the AI I usually focus fire on there capital ships as there distruction can often force them to retreat. Otherwise it depends if you can get the kill or not. If it will likely escape, don't bother and just do as much damage as possible.

"What upgrades should I develop first? (obviously the mining ones, but what else?)"

This is really one of the most debated topics in Sins and has been the subject of many forum threads. But in general for the TEC early armor upgrades, repair bays, Long Range Frigates, Hoshiko repair cruisers and Volcanic/Ice planet colonization (provide you are near some) are very important techs.

"What should I put in each gravity well? I run out of room so fast. Usually I end up without a frigate-maker-thing because of this. The first game I played I got owned because he influenced all my worlds away. Ever since I've been paranoid and make a propaganda machine in every one."

You really only need one at planets in the center of your Empire or at border planets that are under thread from enemy culture (you can see it when the phase lanes start changing to your enemies color). Also having a capital ship stationed at a planet under threat will reduce the culture rate and possible even eleminate it completely. Otherwise, on one at least one of your frontline planets have a frigate factory. The rest you can use for labs, trade etc.

"How should I use mines? They seem fairly ineffective, even when they hit."

You couldn't be more wrong. Well, about the even when they hit part. Try to put these at the edge of the gravity well where your enemy might warp in. If they land right in the middle of the minefield, they will probably lose several frigates as well as their shields on the capital ships. Still, because they can be avoided, repair bays with a starbase/fleet is far better defense.

"How much cash should I use on bounty? It seems like no matter what I do I'm the target, so should I even bother?"

The AI can cheat a little by being able to know exactly when the raid is going to start and outbid you with only a couple seconds left. Again, its probably best to play without the pirates first until you can multitask well enough to keep an eye on them. Or just leave them off forever (its what I usually do).

Reply #2 Top

Using Sova carriers is a very good idea, but don't use a Kol battleship. It doesn't really do much. Use the Akkan for its great economy boosting colonise ability and the Marza for its great firepower. Dunov is meh.

What's better- tons of light frigates, or a few high end heavy cruisers? (or what?)
End of quote

Don't tech rush to heavy cruisers, you will lose. Build light frigates and long range frigates in the early game. Mix in flak and carriers when you are able to. Build heavy cruisers later on, but keep in mind that bombers destroy them effectively.

Have you started using hoshikoes? These are a necessity. Get them ASAP. These cheap cruisers act as mobile repair bays. They are extremely important to any TEC player regardless of the situation.

If you find pirates a struggle, go into game options and turn the pirate option off.

Don't bother with mines. Don't build so many broadcast centres. Wait until later in the game. If your opponent is culture-killing you, you must have been extremely placid. Attack! attack! He probably didn't have enough resources for a decent fleet either.

When you start colonising quite a few planets and if they are all in a line, build trade ports. These are vital but don't build them too soon.

Microin Sins isn't as important as RTSs like WCIII however, it is important for you to use capital ship abilitiies correctly. For example, micro the Marza dreadnnaught to use Missile Barrage only when many enemy ships are within range. Turn off auto-cast for offensive abilities.

Reply #3 Top

Well, don't go for mining early on, when you only get 2 metal per second, 2.5 isn't going to be a big difference, considering it would take the extra 0.5 a minute to get 30.

And if you add the cost of 2000 credits plus 500 metal plus etc., it doesn't help

In late game is when you should focus on mining upgrade, where you get 10 per turn (unless it's a small game)

I usually try to let my ships do there own thing. If you micro manage, sometimes it will cancel there abilities.

Pirates can be annoying, but just pay that 500 credits to get them to go to your enemies planet. If they are really strong, to strong, let them eat the planet and come back.

My favorite researches for the TEC is the (besides ships) armor and health up grades. When you can upgrade hull by 15%, then add a extra 3 armor, your ships WILL last longer.

When your scouts die, make more, they will tell you who is amassing fleets right next to you.

Don't be afraid to build more ships before going into battle.

 

Reply #4 Top

Sounds like your issue is with resource and time management.  Micromanagement is important in this game, but not nearly in the way it is for Warcraft III.  Unless you play on x4 speed (some people do) you don't need to be zipping around quickly.  More important is throughput; identifying things that need to get done and doing them in a timely manner.  You don't need to rush it down to the second, but you should keep things moving smoothly in your empire.


First things first:  focus on the early game.  The effects of the early game are magnified over time.  A small economic advantage in the first five minutes can become a massive fleet advantage over the course of an hour.  Most of the time victory and defeat comes down to how you laid the foundations of your empire in the first 30 minutes. 

Economically, your top priority is real estate: capturing as many planets as possible.  In the long run, the number of planets owned is a direct indicator of how powerful your economy can become. Whatever early-game advantage you have, it will disappear in the long-run if you control fewer planets.  In that respect, you need to control 50% of the solar system in a 1v1, and if you control any less you need to be going on the offensive. 

Militarily, your top priority is to acquire strategic planets.  If the enemy's homeworld is exposed, attacking it is a very good idea (if you start close to the enemy such that your homeworld is also exposed to him, then you need to go all-out military).  Especially in the first 30 minutes of the game, the homeworld is a massive point of weakness for an empire, forcing them to fight you whether they're ready or not.

Finally, don't expect to ever have enough resources.  Budgeting is a big part of this game, and stretching every penny is huge.  If you put 10000 credits into civic structure, and I put all that money into frigates, I may have 30 more frigates than you.  In the mid-game, that could increase my fleet size by 50%.  So budget carefully and pinch every penny.  If you think you can get by without it, then you probably can.  Spend all your money either on economic investments to boost your income, or on military assets to increase your fighting power.


What upgrades should I develop first? (obviously the mining ones, but what else?)
End of quote

You'd be surprised; most players avoid upgrades like the plague.  Basically aside from ice and volcanic planet colonization, people hardly touch civic techs at all in the early stages of the game.  If you're in a rushing scenario, you might not even build civic labs at all.  Now, that said, the low-lying technologies available with 1 or 2 labs can be worth your time because they're cheap, but in general people avoid the more expensive ones.

Even on the military side, people mostly focus on researching new unit types.  Damage upgrades are a bit pricey and you're better off building a larger fleet in general.  Armor and health upgrades can be worthwhile, though, since keeping capital ships alive is such a high priority.


What should I put in each gravity well? I run out of room so fast. Usually I end up without a frigate-maker-thing because of this. The first game I played I got owned because he influenced all my worlds away. Ever since I've been paranoid and make a propaganda machine in every one.
End of quote

Frigate factories on the front line is a good idea. The steady stream of reinforcements is a great addition.  Aside from that, though, the key is to use space sparingly.

Generally you should go easy on culture; one on every planet is definitely overkill.  You have lots of warning before a planet "turns" to do something about it.  Capital ships, if stationed defensively, can repel a certain amount of culture, and there's always the option of just attacking the enemy and destroying the structure.  This is actually pretty easy prey; don't let their 5000 hit points fool you.  They have no shields or shield mitigation and little armour, which means they have practically no damage reduction.

As a general rule of thumb, you should expand your empire and acquire more real-estate rather than paying for expensive logistics upgrades.  Only once your empire has run out of space to grow should you go for logistics upgrades.

Now, there's on important thing to add here: if your enemy's empire is larger than your's, you need to be attacking.  No matter how good your economic advantage is right now, if your enemy controls more planets than you do, they're catching up and you're falling behind.  If you're at a disadvantage, then that disadvantage is only growing.  Trying to wait out a stronger enemy is like signing your own death warrant.

Startegy doesn't count for a lick if the enemy's empire is 20% larger than your's , allowing their economy to quickly grow to 150% your's, allowing them to support a fleet twice as large as your's.  If you attack early that 20% larger doesn't count for a lot, and the enemy may actually be in the red based on infrastructure investment.  If you let the enemy consolidate that empire, however, you're screwed.


How should I use mines? They seem fairly ineffective, even when they hit.
End of quote

Typically people don't use TEC mines.  They're on my personal list of underpowered stuff.  I only use mines as Vasari, personally, though Advent mines have their fans.

How much cash should I use on bounty? It seems like no matter what I do I'm the target, so should I even bother?
End of quote

I'd advise turning pirates off while you're learning to play.

Reply #5 Top

Wow thank you all for the great info! I'll see how this goes after my exam tomorrow :D

Reply #6 Top

A couple minor points

When in Single Player you can use the Pause key to help with learning. Pause the game to read the research trees or generaly finding the HUD commands.

Creating your fleets- I noticed a couple buds not using this option at all. I might have 4 or 5 specialized fleets all invading the same planet at different intervals. Main fleet is Cap ships, frigates and cruisers. Second fleet is the carriers, they come in directly after the main force and stay at the edge of the grav well and I might even turn them to prepare for jump. The enemy like to sometimes come behind you. Then if it looks good I bing in the torpedo and siege fleets. These are all on the 1-5 keys.

Chase down retreating ships with fleet 1, Leave the carrier fleet to protect siege and torpedo fleets but set the carriers to be able to jump ahead to reinforce fleet 1 or jump back for when your out flanked. My buds hate me for this tactic. 10 carriers are deadly on there own.

Set your rally points- This can save valuble time. Left click your factory and right click on the fleet, ship or planet you want them to rally to.

Learn the keyboard- ALT key is very handy for seeing ranges and selecting all the ships of 1 type. Use the CTRL and 1 thru 0 to set quick keys for fleets, ships, planets or even structures. I set a front line planet or starbase as the 0 key. Double tap the 0 to instantly bring you there. Then tap 1 for the main fleet and right click and boom your fleet is moving to the front.

I have extra buttons on the mouse which work great for my most used keys. RETREAT button is worn lol. I wish the cap ships atleast had reverse engines to slowly back you out before having to turn.

Watch your resouces- If you find that you have lots of crystal or metal, sell and spend, never keep a big account unless saving for a big upgrade. I set Up arrow "Buy Metal, down arrow "Sell Metal", left and right arrows for crystal (very fast marketing). eg 1000 credits - 100 metal - 1000 crystal ( i would sell 700 crystal and buy 200 metal leaving something like 2000 -300-300)

Spend all the money on ships or research, send in your fleet and practice micro-managing while your accout builds up.

And oh ya - ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK - if your not, IMO your loosing.

Reply #7 Top

Is it always a good idea to keep all (or almost all) of your ships together? are there any situations where you'd want to have your fleets apart from one another? thanks in advance

Reply #8 Top

In larger maps like I play separate fleets is a must where a small map not so important. Try to be 3 jumps from important planets. CTRL and 1 thru 0 to set fleet quick keys. 

Don't bring colony or siege with main force as the A.I. goes for these first. Note that if i am loosing a battle and must retreat I might warp in my colony ship and the enemy fleet will turn to engage the colony. My buds call this a cheat but alls fair in war.

Reply #9 Top

Never underestimate the power of a few Cielos in your fleet as well.  I recommend keeping them seperate from the main fleet, bringing them in after the entire enmy force has engaged you, them forsing use of Embolden on your ships that are taking hits.  After you cast this, Use designate target on your enemies if you have it researched, and focus fire on those ships.  You may also want to keep a small number of your hoshikos back as well.  usually, 3-4 is plenty for both of these ships in reserve, with however many you THINK you'll need staying with the fleet from the start.

-Twilight Storm

Reply #10 Top

Bwahaha!! Crushing victory!! :D

 

Thanks again for your help, guys! I think my problem was that I wasn't aggressive enough and put too much emphasis on research. We'll see how normal goes tonight :D

Reply #11 Top

you are so lucky, i remember the time were one hard AI wars a pain :)

that was the best singleplayertime in my sinslife..

 

I think the AI is better here than in most other strategygames. But over time you will learn what the AI will do wrong everytime :/