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[MOD] Maelstrom [Trinity | Rebellion]

soase-maelstrom

Join Date 02/2009

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[MOD] Maelstrom [Trinity | Rebellion]

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Compatibility

Maelstrom is currently compatible with

Original v1.195 | Entrenchment v1.055 | Diplomacy v1.37 | Rebellion v1.94

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Credits

For contributions in testing and concepts
ICEman, Quiet_Man, Malanthor, UncleJ and many others
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Introduction

The Maelstrom Mod introduces four new races to the SoaSE Universe.

It keeps the original races, the TEC, Advent and Vasari who are still to be found building and battling as usual.

All of the new races are independent of the original races and have unique strengths and weaknesses.

Learn more and download the Maelstrom Mod at ...

ModDB Website

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Please note that for all mods the 'Installation and Change notes' are included in the download.

Use the recommended 'Graphics Effects Setting' as stated in the Installation notes of the mod.

Installation & Release Notes

modding

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SlyLine
Fabiulu
JoeErvolino
Stalcore
univerraak
D2RDrache
CINCPOWN
501General
501General
GeneralJJwest

Hi XATHOS,

Sounds like your having fun with your project.

Couple of comments

1. To the best of my knowledge I haven't had a race cause a mini-dump since day-one. There were one or two abilities that kept on stacking, or some required immediate re-balancing. So, I've been very happy with the stability of the races in Maelstrom.

2. In terms of mini-dumps I've had problems with the limits of Sins. The most serous one is the 2000 file limit on the number of sound files. If you go over 2000 sounds then ... minidump. As you know each race in Maelstrom has a complete set of unique sounds for voices, structures and announcements (300 per race). This is one of the reasons I have 6 races in total. You just can't added anymore (without changing SoundStreamBufferSize in user.setting or diplomacy.user.setting)

3. Original Sins has a limit of 400 meshes (E & D is 800) which will mini-dump the game if you go over. With all those races and goodies you are adding have you done a mesh count. The Maelstrom races have a complete set of models/meshes(40+ per race)

4. I've integrated Bailknight`s Graphic Mod into Maelstrom with a lot of tweaks and optimization. Also Maelstrom is fulling compliant with the TSOP.

Do you run Sins with the ShowErrors (user.setting) option on? You should be getting some interesting error messages!

Apart from that, without seeing the mod or more specific feedback its hard to tell. Bug hunting can be seriously tough work.

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Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1025

(with help from ZombieRus5).

Just to be clear, I'm not helping XATHOS make his mod. I have no issues with him making it work like SotF but it's not a project I'm working on.

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Hi ZombiesRus5,

I was wondering where you got the time...

I played your mod a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed it ... its a thing of beauty!

Congratulations and all the best on your development!! Keep up the brilliant work.

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I find it hard to believe your claim of never having mini-dumps due to the races (that's part of the standard debugging process), but I do sympathize with the hardcodded sound limits. It was a pain doing all the editing.

Quoting ZombiesRus5,

reply 1027

Just to be clear, I'm not helping XATHOS make his mod.

I should have clarified this better, I've been getting Q&A help from him in this (more help from him then anybody else). I got some from KrdaxDrkun, as well. Just had more banter with the former.

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Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1029

I find it hard to believe your claim of never having mini-dumps due to the races

... the races haven't changed that much from R1. between R1->R5 I have been optimizing (TSOP), updating models (structures/ships), updating particle effects, adding planets, etc. There was one issue with TA and a research pact (associated with the patch upgrade on D from 1.011 to 1.31 if memory serves me right) which someone found and posted a fix in a previous post here. So I don't speak lightly when I say that the races are 'stable'.

The largest change to the races, when it comes to changing entity files, was in R2 when I optimized for game slowdown. I halved the fleet size i.e doubled the logistics on ships/fighters but increased firepower, cost, etc by two. I also reduced the number of support ships and mines.

Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1029

I should have clarified this better, I've been getting Q&A help from him

which is as I thought ... ZombiesRus5 is very helpful.

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I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying that the claim seems hard and unlikely to have accomplished without running into some kind of problem along the way.

Something still seems off. There must be some kind of environmental variable I'm not taking into account.

Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1026

Do you run Sins with the ShowErrors (user.setting) option on? You should be getting some interesting error messages!

Apart from that, without seeing the mod or more specific feedback its hard to tell. Bug hunting can be seriously tough work.

I usually go off the debug file, and I've ran the dev version before. I tried this method and it was the same as the dev one. I didn't see anything new in the error reporting. About 80% is because of sound data I took out. About 10% is brush issue on some icons not displaying. The remaining 5% consists of galaxyscenariodefs errors because I left the replicators ones in when I removed them from loading. Nothing new. It would be nice to read the minidump.

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Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1031

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying that the claim seems hard and unlikely to have accomplished without running into some kind of problem along the way.

...Yes i did, prior to the R1 release. The races have been stable since, there has been no major mini-dump bugs (except as mentioned on the TA).

Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1031

Something still seems off. There must be some kind of environmental variable I'm not taking into account.

... I'm surprised that the debugger is not giving you any indications of the problem. In the user.setting file have you got ShowErrors set to TRUE?

You mentioned that you were having problems when the Replicators were in the mods ... what were the symptoms/behavior?

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Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1032

I'm surprised that the debugger is not giving you any indications of the problem. In the user.setting file have you got ShowErrors set to TRUE?

It's the same debug break up I've mentioned before, and yes. I think half my issues are from the pirates being broke and the last couple of Sins updates giving me pains. Probable moreso the first as opposed to the latter. Either way put, I fixed the pirate issue last night and I'm running through some games now.

You mentioned that you were having problems when the Replicators were in the mods ... what were the symptoms/behavior?

I will ask, why is it that the replicate ability would sometimes produce more than one ship? Shouldn't it only produce one?

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Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1033

last couple of Sins updates giving me pains

So your working on Diplomacy.

Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1033

I fixed the pirate issue last night and I'm running through some games now.

Good luck.

Quoting XATHOS,

reply 1033

I will ask, why is it that the replicate ability would sometimes produce more than one ship? Shouldn't it only produce one?

You set the number of ships 'replicated' via minFleetPoints & maxFleetPoint. So depending on what the slotCount is for a particular ship the game randomly selects the number of ships within that range

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Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1034

So your working on Diplomacy.

It's pointless to work on any other version.

All the mods I play run off of 1000 fleet supply. Sounds like I didn't scale the ability when I changed the fleet supply.

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The minFleetPoints & maxFleetPoint variables are set in the ability (AbilityDeployFrigate_???.entity) and the slotCount is defined in the entity file for frigate (???).

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Is there any way to get rid of the "dangerous asteroids" from the expansion version?

I think they're way overpowered at the beginning of the game, their behaviour is totally unrealistic (they fly towards your ships and bump into them like regular milita) and basically plain annoying.

I do love the rest of the expansion features and would like to use them tho... So is there any way? Otherwise this mod is basically gone from my HDD as the annoyance is just too much...

Edit: When I try editing the GalaxyScenarioDef as suggested a few pages back and changing items to "5" and deleting the 10x asteroid lines the game won't even start

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Quoting Jimi1987,

reply 1037

When I try editing the GalaxyScenarioDef as suggested a few pages back and changing items to "5" and deleting the 10x asteroid lines the game won't even start

Check that there are no empty lines and that you have the five 'items'

                item "Tech:Frigate:Light"
                item "Tech:Frigate:LongRange"
                item "Tech:Frigate:AntiFighter"
                item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
                item "Tech:Frigate:Siege"

i.e that you didn't delete more than the x10

item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"

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I just downloaded it again, triple checked my changes and still get a mini dump when I try to start the game

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Got this for Entrenchment, just wanted to say this is some of the most fun I've had in Sins for a long time; the AI responds very well to the mod in general. Only criticism so far is that the Skylark of Valeron seems a bit overpowered; I see the issue has been pointed out here though it's still present as of the latest Entrenchment version of Maelstrom.

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All the Maelstrom races are overpowered compared to the original races. He's addressing it in the next release.

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Jimi1987,

Checked for Diplomacy, Entrenchment and Original Sins and had no problems - tested till the first planet which would normally have the dangerous asteroids was discovered.

Just to check we are changing the same things in the GalaxyScenarioDef.galaxyScenarioDef file

Normally

        group
            condition
                type "NoPlanetOwner"
                param ""
            owner "RandomMilitia"
            colonizeChance 0
            items 15
                item "Tech:Frigate:Light"
                item "Tech:Frigate:LongRange"
                item "Tech:Frigate:AntiFighter"
                item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
                item "Tech:Frigate:Siege"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"
                item "Pirate:Frigate:AsteroidSmall00"

is changed to

        group
            condition
                type "NoPlanetOwner"
                param ""
            owner "RandomMilitia"
            colonizeChance 0
            items 5
                item "Tech:Frigate:Light"
                item "Tech:Frigate:LongRange"
                item "Tech:Frigate:AntiFighter"
                item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
                item "Tech:Frigate:Siege"

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Hi Lavo_2,

Glad you enjoyed the mod ... felt the same way when playing ZombiesRus5's mod.

Yes, one of the Skylark of Valeron abilities (for Entrenchment only) continues to stack. Unfortunately my development environment has been topsy-turvy over the last couple of months having the place which I rent placed on the market and then sold, followed by having to look for a new place and then moving into it ... fun, fun, fun! Renting sucks!

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Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1043

Glad you enjoyed the mod ... felt the same way when playing ZombiesRus5's mod.

Blasphemy

I felt Advent and Vasari were overpowered when I first started playing Sins. Well, Advent was overpowered with Illum and Vasari still is pretty much with Phase Missiles. Hoshiko damn near makes the TEC overpowering with demo bots late game or Sova with early rushes. Key is to understand the race and know what you need to shutdown.

P.S. plague frigates are getting hit with a nerf bat on my next release. Their starting stats and DPS stats were off from what I wanted originally... just hadn't really had a chance to look at them again until people started pointing it out.

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Quoting ZombiesRus5,

reply 1044

Blasphemy

It's that something one of the Nephilim would say!

Quoting ZombiesRus5,

reply 1044

Key is to understand the race and know what you need to shutdown.

Agreed. I also like to let the game play itself for long periods to see the how the AI players interact.

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finally I managed to enable a 4th ability on the dreads that has -2.5 resource income. Might need some more balancing, but it prevents players from "collecting" dreads while a reduced spawn time gives the AI a compensation for their bad ship management. The requirements to spawn a Dread is set to 1500/1500/1500 resources. The AI is usually quickly spending all income, so they will reach this only when having too much resources. The spawned Dread will then help to keep income "under control"

EDIT: not "4th", I meant the 5th otherwise unused slot

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Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1045

It's that something one of the Nephilim would say!

Pretty much, plus it would be stated fairly arrogantly.

Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1045

Agreed. I also like to let the game play itself for long periods to see the how the AI players interact.

I do the same, basically observing the game at times.

I was playing around with your mod a bit and decided to run my tool against it. I had a pretty obvious incompatibility with your mod. Basically I didn't like dds or tga explicitly stated in the brushes files. I've made a fix locally and will eventually post an update.

[qoute]

brush
	name "AchievementIconBackdrop"
	content "Simple"
	fileName "achievements.dds"
	pixelBox [ 11 , 7 , 165 , 225 ]

[/quote]

Here's the list of items I found, some of which I saw reported on your moddb site. Also not this is only for the Diplomacy expansion version.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5790092/Temp/maestrom.xlsx

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Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 1045

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1044Blasphemy
It's that something one of the Nephilim would say!

My response: gunderson.

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Hi Quiet_Man,

Got some time now to address some of your comments ...

Maelstrom R4 Original mini-dump bug
Found the problem with "random crashes" in R4 Original. It a combination of the total number of meshes, also Sins original handles the pirates differently to E & D, so I had to re-work the pirates.

Weapons and Explosions Effects
"I know that you do not want to mod much the original stuff, but the difference in effects between the new and the original races is simply much much bigger now." Problem is that there is a limit on the number of particles operating at a time (6000). The new effects use more particles, so my concern it that if I upgraded all particles, for the original races then I would hit this limit. Also, "Bailknight`s Graphic Mod" was for 3 races. To create effects for 3 races from scratch is a big job.

Planet Texture upgrade during game
"with the increase development levels of the homeworld, is it possible to change the appearance of the planet during game?"
It might be possible via an mesh effect by inclosing the original planet mesh with the new ability mesh.

Dreadnought re-balancing
Let me summarize what you have implemented to see if we understand one-another ...

1. dreadnought spawning is based on resources (1000/1000/1000)
2. reduced spawn time
3. added a -2.5 resource "bonus" to the super-deadnought ability
4. added a slow auto-experience gain until level 6
5. doubled experience points gained from combat

So later in the game you can 'relatively' quickly build a large number of dreads and have them convert to super-dreads, again, 'relatively' quickly. With proviso that each superdreadnought will cost your overall economy quite a bit of additional maintenance. It's a good concept but what problem/s in the current implementation are you trying to overcome?

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Hi ZombiesRus5,

Thanks for running the mod through your 'Entity Editor and Validation Tool' and posting the results.
It appears that as usual the Sins debugging tools could be more useful!
I tried your tools several months ago with limited success, however, I have downloaded your recent updates. Thanks again, much appreciated.

PS: not quite sure why you stated "Basically I didn't like dds or tga explicitly stated in the brushes files.". I thought it was a basic 'tenet' from TSOP that all tga files should be converted to dds (which I have done) and if not explicitly stated the tga will have precedence

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