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dbkita

Join Date 05/2008

as promised a couple of (choppy) replays as Advent vs 3 cruel AIs

Hi all.

As I mentioned in this thread https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/390953 I finally managed to beat cruel AIs playing as Advent.

Alas I did not have auto-record on that game whatsoever. Too bad it is was more elegant than the two I will be posting here now.

Both of these games were random medium maps with 3 cruel AIs (edit: FFA) all at normal speeds and pirates inactive. For the sake of efficiency, let me call the two games, game 2 and game 3 respectively (my 2nd and 3rd victories). Game 2 was with unlocked teams (made things fun as one Vasari AI became smitten early with the Advent AI). And game 3 that was locked teams (which was worse since I got hit by all three early).

Couple of disclaimers. In Game 2 I was soon discovering my woes with auto-record. The game crashed a total of 19 times while playing that game with auto-record on. In fact the first was before the 3 min mark. I learned to save often. I also learned even worse that if I 'watched' a record without first quitting the game and exiting the executable and then reopening, I got a crash dump reporting window and the relevant recording was gone ,,, as in passed on, perished, past tense. Because of this game 2 has a couple of large gaps where the recordings were wholesale lost and I did not have the heart to replay those stretches. There are also long gaps in real world time as I kept trying with great frustration to figure out what was going on to no avail.

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Anyways the link for game 2 is http://rapidshare.com/files/414789049/Game2-recordings.rar

The manifest for game 2 is as follows:

Game 2-start.record = very beginning, crashed after couple mins

Game 2-restart-after-first-crash.record = complete restart from saved game at 1:51 mark, the original restart from 0.00 was eaten with aforementioned 'watch' problem

Game 2-failed-but-interesting-fork.record = an interesting attempt starting from the 37 min mark that I included for grins. The long 3-way fights at the invading starbase were pricelss even though ultimately futile, I included this for fun

Game 2-next chunk-before autorecord-corruption.record = starting again from the 37 min mark another chunk before I lost a loooong continuous record *sob*

Game 2-essentially-endgame.record = after a long gap this is a final recording to show you where things ended up after like 4 hours. Note: at the the very end the AI is still fighting but as far as I am concerned I won and I got bored and stopped (imo the AI doesn't know when to surrender early enough, but maybe that is just me).

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Then I did a full re-install. Fortunately that seemed to mostly do the trick for Game 3. I say mostly since I only crashed twice. Note: before this without auto-recording I never crashed while playing. In fact the only times I crashed were when I was watching someone's else recording at random places.

Fortunately, there are no game time gaps since being paranoid I always quit the game before I ever watch a recording.

The big disclaimer here though is after the 47 min mark I could not beat the game at cruel. I tried three times with different strategies. The funnest of the the three is also included since it was so surprising (to me at least) to be hit by a host of Ogrovs at the 60 min mark by the TEC AI.

To continue past this I set the AIs to unfair. Sadly the game got much to easy (at least using cheesy SB tactics). To that end I probably didn't play as well midgame as I would have liked (i.e. too distracted and bored). I also ended the game early once I was rolling the Vasari AI, the Advent AI was more or less dead, and I had the largest fleet and econ. Yes it would have taken a while even at the unfair AI level but again it got too easy and boring imo.

In hindsight the beginning was fun and very brutal as I got pounded by all 3 AI at two chokepoints. As an aside Magnetic Storms that break your trade line really suck, especially when the alternative is the star in the center which you also cannot run trade through ... sigh.

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The link for game 3 is http://rapidshare.com/files/414789219/Game3-recordings.rar

The manifest for Game 3 is as follows:

Game 3-first-cruel-dogfight.record = name says it all and here I thought locked teams would be easier. Btw when does a level Progenitor beat a Revelation with a couple of disciples to boot? Answer when you exploit repair bays. All kidding aside that move crippled the green Advent AI. Oh and btw in all my games the Advent cruel AI is the first to get rolled. Devs might want to rethink some of the recent balancing as it concerns Advent. I'm just saying is all.

Game 3-death by ogrovs.record = one of the three failed continuations at cruel. It is in fact representative of all three. It was the first and hence the most su7rprising. One of the others went further and got up to 22 ogrovs but I thought this was the funniest one. Note I got onto the meteor control bandwagaon too late I guess and got greedy trying to get trade up. Anyways this is for giggles. Damn you ogrovs! (dbkita shakes fist vigorously)

Game 3-second-had to switch to unfair.record = as the name applies I switched to unfair AIs at the start of this recording. Ironically I eschewed trade and found meteors. But now the TEC AI shows up with five or so Ogrovs. Pitiful!

Game 3-third-boring now.record and Game 3-fourth-too easy.record = as the names imply too easy at unfair now, I guess TEC and Vasari decided to ignore me and fight each other. Seemed odd.

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Anyways I uploaded these recordings not to toot my horn but to instead invite any critiques on the two games, especially the first hour or so. Please remember all games were at normal settings / rates and the regular start (i.e. no cap factory, etc.).

On the other hand to be honest I am kind of burned out on Advent vs cruel AIs atm. Too much abuse of Transcencia uberness. I think I might prefer to go back and play at unfair but eschew starbases until muuuch later on. Oh and Vasari at cruel is soooo much easier.

Still any tips are most welcome...

Both links have been verified as working. Cheers!

The manifest for game 2 is as follows:

strategy

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Well even though seems there isn't much interest in my Advent replays, I am posting a vasari cruel replay for completeness to prove a the point that playing Vasari is much easier (at least for me) in the current version of Diplomacy. Same conditions: 3 AIs, cruel, FFA, medium map but with unlocked teams and large fleets with pirates inactive. This one was fast start but still normal rates.

The link is http://rapidshare.com/files/415214175/Vasari-Cruel.rar

The individual parts are labeled as Vasari-Cruel-a/b/c/d/e/f.

I apologize for the six parts but 1) I am paranoid about crashes with auto-record (and sure enough it bit me once around the 37 min mark and I had to backtrack and play from the end of part a) and 2) my back isn't what it used to be and I need breaks.

That being said there is sadly a gap from 1:01 to 1:25 in game time since Pacific Gas & Electric decided to do its own 'crash dump' as power went out (the Bay Area which has been pleasant all summer finally got hammered with 105-108 degree heat - ick - meaning too many ACs on at once).

I will admit I got lucky that the vasari AI went after the Advent AI and left my southern border alone (though I did have an Orkulus down their already). But notice I screw up at the ~50min mark and lose my 'northern' Orkulus to some ogrovs (damn you ogrovs!!!) since my fleet was out of position. Still I manage to drive off the TEC fleet (dual Skirantras ftw) and build a new orkulus around the 1:00 mark. Deciding to take a break, it is after this that the power went out and I didn't have the heart to backtrack yet again.

One additional observation is that in every cruel AI game I have ever played that featured an Advent AI, the Advent AI is defeated first. Always. I suspect one could run simulations of appropriate FFAs and find that basically an Advent AI almost always will lose first.

Anyways I welcome any critiques or comments. I am after all trying to learn. Still I think I am done with cruel AIs for awhile. Moreover, autorecord is getting the heave ho as I am sick of recording related crashes. So you won't be bothered with any more replays from me.

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Keep in mind it's midweek, so people may not get around to watching your replays.

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Just a quick note. All replays are played with Diplomacy 1.011 but also with the TSOP (The Sins Optimization Project) Mod from Major Stress et al. Not sure if it will affect viewing the replays. Note that my frequency of crashing with auto-record on before and after my full re-install was unaffected as to whether the mod was unable or not.

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Thank you very much for the replays. I've been looking for a good advent SP one for awhile now, and this is a bunch!

btw, your crash issues... have you tried the Large Address Aware program? it seemed to fix my crashes

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You are most welcome SithLordAJ, I just wish I could have provided more continuous blocks in the two Advent games.

And yes I do already use the Large Address Aware program (though with TSOP mod it makes it kind of moot).

My game is quite stable so long as auto-record is turned off (with or without TSOP). The only times I otherwise had issues were when watching other people's replays. Then sometimes I would randomly crash (which would be very annoying if near the end).

For example I just played a long game on the Whirlwind map vs 8 AIs as Vasari with zero crashes but auto-record was turned off. Who knew the record functionality could be so vindictive Oh well.

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WHIPperSNAPper2008

Join Date 03/2008

+126

If you can beat Cruel and Vicious AIs, it's time to advance to online multiplayer against human opponents. Just log onto Ironclad Online and give it a try. You might enjoy the 4v4 and 5v5 games, and no, they don't take forever to play. Your average online game only runs for 1.5 hours and sometimes less than that.

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Thanks for the advice DirtySanchez. I have played some online before but my connection is very poor so I drop often. I'll see if I can get Comcast to stabilize my connection. I am paying them good money for it after all. It's kind of odd though since playing other games online I never had any issues. Have to see what I can do ...

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Well here is another replay vs cruel AI.

This one was 1 v 1 as Vasari on a small map (pirates inactive, quick start, large fleets, all other rates normal).

http://rapidshare.com/files/415972288/Vasari-Cruel-1v1.rar

I tried to save each 30 mins at first since I was paranoid about dump crashes that might ruin the recording. Oddly enough I never crashed once this game. I wonder if it was because it was a small map. Dunno. By the end the recording got longer since I began to 'trust; that there wouldn't be a crash. There is a large time gap in real world time before the final segment as I watched a long movie with my daughter (her first time seeing the Fellowship of the Ring, her treat after finishing the trilogy).

Oddly enough I guess I hurt the AI badly enough in the mega battle at my asteroid around the 3:00 mark that he had nothing left in the tank.

To be honest so far I have found the 1 v 1 games easier than vs 3 AIs on medium maps (at least as Vasari). I guess the way I see it the initial rush for chokepoints is much harder on the larger map vs more AIs as you get rushed multiple times by multiple enemies and it is hard to get a break to build econ. On the other hand in 1 v 1, the waves are persistent but more predictable, you never get a break but the peaks are not as nasty early on. Later on the battles are massive but you are presumably able to handle them by that time.

On the other hand, vs 3 AIs on the medium maps if you can survive the initial 90 mins you inevitably get a pause at some point as the AIs start to fight with themselves, letting you fill out all your econ and build up your fleets for invasions (plus your trade networks are going to be longer by virtue of the map size). Moreover, in the medium map vs 3 AIs invariably the last player standing (probably the Vasari AI if there is one) will be very powerful with maxed fleet leading to somewhat tough battles especially if you are invading (damn you phasic traps!).

Still I freely admit I would have been unlikely to win this particular game as Advent as the Skirantra is so OP at the start and the assailant is amazing for 1 mil lab. As it is I was screaming at my migrator to get enough AM to colonize so I could get the Orkulus up. The big key I see is to race asap for 5 mil labs to get deflectors and all the prototypes you want. I was also lucky that I never felt any heat at the desert planet in the south (and to think I build phase stabilizers for nothing). My one big bungle was how I almost lost the southern desert planet due to culture (was touch and go for a bit). To the point, in a medium map with 3 AIs, the southern Orkulus would have also need to be upgraded to max and the fleets for balanced until phase stabilizers were up.

Let me know if you have any comments or advice. I am always looking to learn.

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I had a post here the other day, but I guess it didn't take.

I am very inrtrigued by your movement techniques against militia in the early game. the only kiting i seem to be able to effectively pull off is /w strikecraft kiting the flak. This seems to let you win with a much smaller force than I, and mixing that with a more aggressive expansion to get a way better start than I've yet to pull off. All this while maintaining scouting. I'm impressed.

So, do you have any tips for me as how to go about learning all of that?

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I am not sure which type of 'motion' you are referring to in particular but I can think of several that might be worth discussing.

a ) gravity well exploitation motion: the AI is stupid, it has a very rigid set of target priorities for neutrals. Colony ships are of course at the peak of that list. It also loves scouts and LFs. Scouts are great to pull neutrals around the gravity well to get your LFs through to a more important planet / roid. They can also help to get colony ships to the planet unscathed or more importantly so the colony ship can bypass the hostile volcano / ice world to get to the juicy asteroid beyond. If a LF is being focused fired, break it off and kite and the enemy will break up some of its forces. Colony ships can also be used to give your cap or other forces a breather, since they are such a magnet for aggro. Scout exploitation is also a lovely way to bog down enemy fleets until the strikecraft shows up (viva la plasma storms).

b ) combat movement: the big question with neutral combat is first and foremost: what are my objectives?

Do I need to bypass them? If so then see the scout lure above. Do I need to just hit the siege frigates? If so then run a couple of LFs, blitz the siege frigates (good for volcano and ice worlds) and dump a colonizer in the grav well to hijack / turret the planet? Of course if it is a roid and the colonizer has anitmatter then just hijack by itself. But does the colonizer need to stay or move on? If it doesn't have antimatter but it has to stay in the well then I need some LFs to clear the well. Do I use a single cap in a nasty terran / desert world (if so do I need to colonize and set up a repair platform before all is cleared)? Do I need to clear them out? Each scenario means different gravity well movement and sequence of events.

For Halcyons moving at a slightly shallow arc is a good way to avoid some of the incoming damage while allowing some side shots + giving the strikecraft the time they need to kill off the enemy. Skirantras are so OP I often put them in the well shift click a queue of targets, set SB on enable and go do other business till the well is cleared.

c ) map-level movement: at cruel and above, I think you have to judiciously skip planets and scout like crazy and get the choke point worlds asap. This leads to lots of diversionary tactics to get past neutrals. Also headaches with colonizer anti-matter (the star helps speed things up if you can get there). None of this needed imo for unfair or below. Sometimes over-stretching can get you killed.

Note a lot of these movement scenarios are moot at unfair but are very important (imo) at cruel and above.

As far as tips go, all I can suggest is keep working on cruel until you come to a movement system that gives you the advantages you need. None of this has any value I can see in multiplayer. at least to my reckoning.

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