I'm generally pretty quiet around forums. But this game is currently working just fine and the Day-0 patch addresses some issues, but 99.99% companies would just at this point not care and maybe release a new patch within the next few months or even longer to address problems. But as of the, I guess, "Day -1" patch. It helped the game run a lot smoother and better. Meanwhile, the team has been busting it's ass off getting everything ready after the street date was broken. After the Demigod incident, at least, this time there were more prepared.

Right now, this is a fully functioning game. However, due to PCs having how many varies different configurations, you are going to have problems. This isn't a game for a console. You have many variables that you can't account for.

Trying to say the game "not complete" is just a bold faced lie. It's currently more complete then most games on the market. I have games that I'm still waiting for the bugs to get worked out and who knows if it ever will for some of them. However, the Stardock team and Brad have bent-over backwards to try to make people happy and then they have to read this crap.

Just my two cents.

This. Couldn't have worded it better myself.

yeah i would say that the game was delivered finished.  i played for about an hour and i had no problems and loved it.  you are obviously wanting an absolutely perfect game, hey guess what, its not possible.  nobody is going to agree on everything.  you can look at it 2 ways.  either you have 9 out of 10 things right and accept that and have fun, or you can have 1 out of 10 things wrong and obsess over it and let it destroy your enjoyment.  that's the problem with most people, they will avoid all that's good and gravitate to the one bad thing.  you would enjoy things more if you didn't have such a pessimistic attitude.

We consider the game, as released, finished.  You don't agree. I am offering you a solution.

If I buy a pair of shoes in the shoe store and don't like them, I don't go back to the shoe store and start loudly proclaiming to everyone in ear shot how I don't like it.

You've spent several posts (including one that was hidden) proclaiming how we haven't lived up to the Gamers Bill of Rights because you don't think the game out of the box is "done". Fine, we get it, you don't think it's done.   So get a refund then and move on.

End - I am offering you a full refund.  I don't want you to feel like you got ripped off or something.

We had thousands of units in the early betas. We could train legions (1000+ units at once). It wasn't fun.  At the end of the day, that is what guides us, making it fun.

If someone else wants to mod in legions or what have you they can.  But we decided it was more enjoyable to keep the numbers smaller and more manageable so that every unit counted.

Out of curiosity, how would having 10x the units with everything else the exact same, make a big difference in a positive way?

I understand the complaint..i just don't see with the current gameplay setup how having 100's of units is so much worse then 1000's.

Again, this seems like a case of new gamers versus old gamers.  The style of play in Elemental is akin to the classic computer games -- HoMM, MoM, etc.  It was only with the exponential increase in computing power did developers realize that they could placate the "masses" by having hundreds of units on screen at once.  Yes, the increase in CPU power does allow for increased creative expression by developers.  Games like Medieval II featured "massive battles" without insulting the intelligence of the gamer.  But games today are not like games in the past because they overly rely upon graphics and multimedia.  As Frogboy stated, the budget for SC2's cut scenes probably was larger than the budget for Elemental, as a whole.

Elemental comes out of a gameplay heritage that is NOT like today's mainstream, watered-down gaming.  Just admit it.  Gaming today is mainstream.  A vast majority of games are purposely created with the lowest common denominator in mind because that equals better sales, which is necessary to placate shareholders.  It's a different market than in the 80s and 90s when computer gaming was a bit more niche.

Any smart consumer that is concerned about the state of the product they are purchasing should do research before hand.  To put it another way, people are not powerless consumers.  Read reviews.  Wait a week after release.  Wait until the price drops.  Wait for a demo.  Learn to see the positives in a product rather than focus on the negatives.

Or go and play halo or CoD like everyone else.

By the way, he has listened to you. There's a difference between a right to demand a finished game, and relentlessly posting the same stuff on the forums. He said he's sorry you don't feel the game is finished, and if you feel that way that he'd happily give you a refund. I think he's listened to your demands quite enough, and has also explained why he feels differently. What else can you expect from the CEO of a company?

Oh, good god. This is ridiculous.

Listen: Stardock considers the game finished. Just because it doesn't have what you wanted does not mean the game is unfinished.

Jesus, I can't believe I even have to say that. You're not happy with the product. The CEO himself offers you a full refund. But instead of being satisfied with an offer that NO OTHER DEV would ever make, you continue to whine.

WHY? Because you don't think the game is finished?

The only real complaint you have is that it doesn't have the legions that the early blurbs talked about. This has been explained. It's not because they couldn't fit it in, they didn't want to.

There is no reason for you to continue to post here. Your complaint has been addressed. Stand aside, take you refund and shut up about it.

BTW, Frogboy, any chance some of the crashes can be addressed?

Agreed.

It's the bane of MMO developers.  The community begs for updates, the developers try to share their vision of where they'd like to go with the game, stressing that it's in early development, and then when it doesn't happen there's always a vocal minority that refers back to those "promises" and won't let it go.  Those people ruin it for the rest of us.  I can't blame developers for not wanting to talk about possible features in games anymore. 

Probably wants him to show up on a hovercraft and personally deliver a check for the difference.

Oh wait... now I'm thinking of something else. 

My post was not intended to imply the game was unfinished or that I was demanding a refund.  And I don't think profligate was demanding a refund because of my complaint, which has now been lost in the "finished/unfinished" nonsense.

I'm surprised Frogboy came in and addressed that aspect, but criticism is usually drowned out by the flames of both sides.

I still think the game would "feel" better if it was made clear that each unit was not a single man and each pop in a city was not a single person.  The economics and scale would make a lot more sense.

Of course, then a single adventurer couldn't just slaughter an entire army, but that's fine with me too.

The cost of items in the store is also strange.  I can get a horse for "free" when building a unit (it costs just a horse), but it costs 100 gold to give my heroes and sovereign one.  It is almost like two different games are going on and they don't mesh well: a Civ-type strategy game and a very old school (almost FF1 level) RPG.  The concept of an empire and a single person doesn't mesh well.  Combine this with all the epic-level terminology (emperors, kings, kingdoms, empires, etc.) and something feels off.

Frankly, this is the least immersive TBS strategy game I've played.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't play well, or can't be a decent game, but it really limits its longterm appeal for me.

This is the last post I'll say on this subject.  It's disappointing how this turned out because I was really hoping for a grand fantasy strategy game (GalCiv with magic) and it didn't quite happen.

you see i think the game is finished, so therefore stardock has stood behind their gamers bill of rights with me. you disagree, which is your right.  however, you have made your point, you have let all of us know that you don't like it.  MOVE ON there is nothing else to talk about.  you can't make your opinion fact.