michaelwalters michaelwalters

what's happening

what's happening

The single player mode of this game is a waste of time. It has been tacked on to maximize the target niche market as an afterthought to the multiplayer game. It doesn't work. I have played on the simplest scenario (no pirates 1v1,tec) four or five times in order to learn it and each time the game ends by invading your capital planet. The first game after half and hour then an hour in the second game and then two hours on the third game etc. No matter what I do, it will end in a set period of time. My capital ships will be destroyed by an inferior ship within seconds even when they are within an repair device AoE while enemy forces pour in quite disproportionate to the information that is actually given. This is not a strategy game, for no matter what I do, the game will decide when to end in your defeat. I have followed some of your esteemed members (high karma) detailed advice, but all failed. I have tried a larger game with, say, eight AI players with the same effect and exactly the same coefficient outcome. With all the technical and pseudo scientific info on display, it boils down to simple algebra ; 1=1, 2=2, 3=3, end the game. Perhaps I do not have enough karma and have to play a few dozen times until the game deigns to extend the time allowed, not dependant on any strategy?

98,830 views 69 replies
Reply #51 Top

Here ya go, a 1v1 - me(Vasari) vs a hard AI(TEC) on a small random map. I have all settings on fast with large fleets and pirates off. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6040489/1v1hardAI%28Vasari_vs_TEC%29.record

Notice how I move relatively quickly. In less than 30 seconds I have queued my colony cap ship, 5 light frigates, and sent both my scouts to different plants. I don't build any tech structures until I scout a bit, and when I see a close by ice planet I then put down 2 civilian tech labs so I can research ice colonization by the time I get there so I don't interrupt my colonization.

At 3:30 I colonize my first planet(an asteroid) and immediately build population upgrades and move on to the next planet.

By 6:30 I have my second asteroid and am again moving on right after wards after getting the pop upgrade.

By 15:00, where in your game you had just colonized your first planet, I have 4 planets and have just phase jumped to my 5th. The AI on the other hand has 3 planets about to takes it 4th. Now I got a little lucky here as the AI was stuck behind a desert planet while I had an easier path to early colonization. Had I been in the AI's place things would have been a little slower, but not much.

Also notice how the AI hurts itself early. At 15:00 we're still 3 jumps away from each other, yet it has already researched and built planetary siege frigates. Those things are pretty much useless, especially at that point, and it was a complete waste to get them. Also look at it's research - it's completely haphazard with no real rhyme or reason. There's no reason to have researched an extra cap ship slot, shield/hull increase, weapons damage increase, planetary defenses,

Look how lean my research is compared to the AI's. I've researched 4 things, and salvaging probably wasn't even a good choice, I just like it. The AI has 11 items researched, of which only 2 are even useful at that point, and of those 2 the anti-fighter frigate could probably done without. Ironically, while I have less overall research I have a greater number of labs constructed allowing me to advance in the tech tree to the more important techs faster, especially since the AI wasted it's money on planetary defense to go along with bad research items. You may ask why researching all this is bad - it's since weaponry and defense upgrades are very small % of total health/dps and the others just aren't need at that time. You gain a lot more hit points/dps for the money by just building more frigates rather than making each individual frigate better. It's only the vasari phase missile tech that has any worth in the early game. The others are only useful mid-late game when large fleets are fighting each other.

At around 25:00 I have my first real contact with the AI. We have a small skirmish over a asteroid planet where I have clearly have an advantage(6 frigates vs my 5 with a cap backing me up). Instead of retreating and regrouping with a larger fleet, the AI just fights head on and takes losses that shouldn't have happened. At one point it even sends in more frigates in a small group which have no chance of actually winning. It does retreat those(or whats left) once it becomes obvious it can't win, but it could have saved a good 6-8 ships had it just retreated to begin with. Around 33:30 it jumps in it's whole fleet when it really didn't need to(part of it could have been expanding still) and even jumps in 2 LRF's(long range frigates) early that are, again, a complete waste.

In the meantime I've researched starbase construction in case I need to defend my ateroid planet that acts as a choke point between the AI and me. I do this because, despite being ahead economically, I'm slightly behind militarily. If the AI were to directly attack me I'd be at a disadvantage and probably lose, but since I'm the aggressor at that point, I'm pretty sure that won't happen. Infact, after it does reinforce it's asteroid and I retreat, it sends only 1 cap ship to my planet to attack(more like mildly harass). Instead of throwing down an expensive starbase, I just fight it off with my carrier frigates which I had started building because their a good midgame fleet(I like to go either carrier or cap ships with mass LRF/flak backup), and I micro the carriers around the gravity well a bit to get the most effectiveness out of them.

I stopped playing at around 40:00, but at that point I used my retreating fleet to move to the other side of the sun and start colonizing those planets. I just got the earth planet and will shortly be moving on to the other asteroids. I need to send some scouts in and see where his fleet is at and decide if the starbase is warranted now, but at this point I can do pretty much whatever I want and be fine. I have 6 planets compared to 5, and those 6 will soon becomes at least 8 and as many as 10. I even have a equal/stronger fleet with 254 supply(1 cap, 8 carriers, 6 LRF, 8 LF) vs 234 supply(2 caps, 9 LRF, 8 LF, 1 flak). As long as I don't suicide my fleet I will win.

Reply #52 Top

Very good description of how to stomp a comp  :thumbsup: .

Reply #53 Top

That I took 15 minutes to start expansion, is exceptional. See my last posting.  Note: I have been advised more than once by many players of this game to concentrate first upgrading my Capital Planet and then expanding, and this would take 10 to 15 minutes. This seems right to me. There is much contradictory advice on this site. If you would like to post your winning games here, I would be pleased to view them. Your definitely a very scary guy. 

Reply #54 Top

Quoting michaelwalters, reply 53
That I took 15 minutes to start expansion, is exceptional. See my last posting.  Note: I have been advised more than once by many players of this game to concentrate first upgrading my Capital Planet and then expanding, and this would take 10 to 15 minutes. This seems right to me. There is much contradictory advice on this site. If you would like to post your winning games here, I would be pleased to view them. Your definitely a very scary guy. 
End of michaelwalters's quote

If you play on normal start you should build your capital factory, build your colony cap ship, and upgrade your final population upgrade while building some frigates. That shouldn't take more than a 2-3 minutes and you should have your first planet(the neighboring asteroid) within 5-6 minutes.

If you play on quick start you should be doing things pretty much exactly as I did. Expanding quickly is what you should be focused on unless you're doing a rush strategy, which I've only heard of people doing in multiplayer or on crazy hard difficulties where you have to use every AI exploit and still play perfect to win.

There's a replay link at the top of my wall of text post.

Reply #55 Top

Thanks Myles for your detailed description. I would be interested in seeing the winning video. Thanks. By the way, how did you have such detailed knowledge of what the enemy player had researched and acquired?

Reply #56 Top

Quoting michaelwalters, reply 55
Thanks Myles for your detailed description. I would be interested in seeing the winning video. Thanks. By the way, how did you have such detailed knowledge of what the enemy player had researched and acquired?
End of michaelwalters's quote

Sorry, I should have said I was commentating the replay. At the time I didn't know exactly what he had. If I played unmodded sins more often I could have noticed that his shield/hull/armor was upgraded by looking at the ships themselves, but I don't know ship stats off the top of my head anymore.

In the game itself I had decent info on the enemy during the start with my first 2 scouts. After they died I sent scouts in again at some point(dont remember when) and at the end I needed to scout again to find its fleet and determine if I need to put down some defenses.

Reply #57 Top

Okay. I have not seen a winning video nor have I found one online.

Reply #58 Top

The games technically not won, yet. Really, at the time I quit I'm only ahead by a bit and if I were playing a human their'd probably be a decent chance for them to come back. However, once behind, the AI has a near impossible time coming back from it. Once I get the last couple asteroids and setup my trade network(I have trade stations researched but none put down yet) I'll have the economy to produce so many ships that I'll have to make a huge tactical blunder to lose them all in a position where I can't rebuild quick enough to win anyways,

Reply #59 Top

A replay is already a recording of the game... I don't see the need for a video.

Reply #60 Top

I was using the term 'video' for replay. I have never seen a winning replay of this game. I believe it is unwinnable because of the system of cheats it has. If anyone  can demonstrate differently then I would like to see it. For those who believe this game is easy (or anyone for that matter) they should be able to reproduce a win on the simple map and post it here. Thanks

Reply #61 Top

Quoting michaelwalters, reply 60
I was using the term 'video' for replay. I have never seen a winning replay of this game. I believe it is unwinnable because of the system of cheats it has. If anyone  can demonstrate differently then I would like to see it. For those who believe this game is easy (or anyone for that matter) they should be able to reproduce a win on the simple map and post it here. Thanks
End of michaelwalters's quote

There is no system of cheats. The only way the AI cheats is with higher money/resource income on higher difficultly levels. Is the replay I provided good enough, or do you still believe its unbeatable?

Reply #62 Top

I have just watched the replay you provided again and it was instructive. There are many peculiarities in this game I have never seen in my games. I have not seen, for example, the enemy player flee when it had a viable chance of defeating my forces or seriously damaging them, my capital ships are ususally time-out in 10 to 30 seconds or so and your scouts survive much longer than mine,etc. Nonetheless this is not a winning game. As you said, you have slight advantage at the end of the 40 mins, but there are still five occupiable planets, the pirates are still heavily fortified and so is the enemy player. A win unlocks an achievement, but there is not one here. Thanks again, I enjoyed watching it.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting michaelwalters, reply 60
I was using the term 'video' for replay. I have never seen a winning replay of this game. I believe it is unwinnable because of the system of cheats it has. If anyone  can demonstrate differently then I would like to see it. For those who believe this game is easy (or anyone for that matter) they should be able to reproduce a win on the simple map and post it here. Thanks
End of michaelwalters's quote

Well, I already did. But you will need to start the base game only no expansions. I'll post a diplomacy version later. But really, your premise is so flaud it's funny at this point which is why I continue to read this thread.

Reply #64 Top

I went ahead and finished that game out. Took 2 hours to end it cause I kinda took my time, but at no point was I worried about losing. The biggest 'oh shit' moment was when I sent my fleet to the undefended desert planet, stopped paying attention, and almost lost my cap when the AI reinforced it. Either way, hard AI=no challenge.

Here's the replay of the rest of the game and I added the save so you can play from my advantage and see where it gets ya.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6040489/AutoRecord-12021240.record

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6040489/tutorial.save

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6040489/tutorial.stats

 

Reply #65 Top

Quoting michaelwalters, reply 62
... the pirates are still heavily fortified ...
End of michaelwalters's quote

As long as the Pirates are turned off, they won't harass you. In fact, the Pirate Base is more or less a wall between you and the AI player - they never attack a Pirate Base and the only thing they send through them are scouts and the occasional light frigate or flak frigate on a scouting mission (AI only begins to use LFs and flak for scouting when you start killing its scouts with strike craft).

Reply #66 Top

Here's a diplomacy game played to finish. I went ahead and completely wiped out the AI even though it gave up part way through bombarding it's planet. I also played with quick start off Advent versus TEC on Hard difficulty and Fast settings. My strategy was quick expand towards its planet with no trade ports.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5790092/Temp/1v1-diplomacy.record

 

Reply #67 Top

Watched the complete first version. You had the advantage, sustained it and eventually increased  it. Definite win. First time I have seen one. Will try a game sometime today and report back on my findings.

Reply #68 Top

Watched it. You certainly routed the enemy in 1 hour. First time I have seen a win, apart from Myles's game. Will try a game today.

Reply #69 Top

Here's my favorite way to comp stomp with all capital ships. I could have been more productive had I built colony frigates for the neutrals or trade ports.

I think what the two replays I posted show the AI is not very smart by pressuring it early.

Allowing the AI to turtle a little so it can colonize and build ships is where the AI gets more dangerous. Their ships are the same as yours regardless of difficulty level and may be further upgraded by more difficult AI's. This makes battles more complicated as you may be fighting what should be overwhelming forces if you allow the AI to get embedded and build it's military and civilian infrastructures. Once the AI becomes stronger than you it is time to employ choke point tactics and use abilities to turn the tide (which is something the AI does not do a good job of). Each faction has unique ships, structures and Starbases that can pretty much overwhelm the AI if used properly (which of course the AI can't do well).

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5790092/Temp/1v1-tech_vs_tech_cap_ships.record