Battle not win-able with fleet capacity maxed out

Ok I used all my fleet (2000 capacity) to attack a KI on their Home Planet.

Soon I noticed something went wery wrong, my Akkan 10er cap got destroyed, I was loosing the battle and i have no clue why.

 

My fleet a short time in the battle, paused after my 10er Akkan got destroyed:

 

Kodiak x104

Fighter x37

Marza x3

Dunov x2

Percheron x16

Hoshiko x18

------------------------------------------

KI fleet at this time:

 

Fighter x21

Lasurak Transporter x19

Stilakus Subverter x19

Severun Overseer x19

Skarovas Enforcer x15

Junsurak Sentinel x2

Kortul Devastetator x2

Skirantra Carrier x1

Bomber Squad x7

Kanrak Ass. x1

---------------------------------

 

Can someone plz explain me, why I have no chance as TEC and my fleet capacity maxed out against this KI??

Thanks in advance!

4,902 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top

I see three huge flaws in your strategy:

 

-He had a lot of support cruisers, these ships take extra damage from LFs AND LFs are able to cripple their abilities. You don't have even single LF... Changing ~20 Kodiaks into LFs could win you the game. You cannot kill fleet of support cruisers using "let's throw tons of random stuff and pray for victory" strategy

-He have a lot of fighters, while you do not have any correct answer to them. Fighters vs Fighters is not optimal counter, while adding ~15 Flak Frigates (again - reduce number of kodiaks or even carriers) could eliminate entire opponents fighters presence easily. Don't forget Vasari fighters use phase missiles, it mean they are very effective even against heavier ships.

-Kortuls can neutralize entire SC fleet for very long time, and enemy had 2 of these bastards. You should kill them ASAP or at least destroy their AM reserves, as long as these ships are online, all your SC cannot attack (unless they waste all their AM). It mean all your carriers in this battle were worth as much as asteroids just because of Kortuls presence.

 

 

 

In simple words, to win against this enemy fleet composition you should:

- build Less Kodiaks (and maybe light carriers too)

- Build ~30-40 Cobalt Light Frigates (and research their abilities)

- Build ~15-20 Flak Frigates

- Kill Kortuls as fast as possible

Reply #2 Top

Thanks. I'm thinking building LRM instead of Kodiak again. New: 40 LF (Cobalt), 20 Flak (Garda), 40 Hoshiko (Repair ability to protect my caps). No more Carriers. Leftover for LRM (Javelis).

Reply #3 Top

Kodiak is very strong and cost-effective multipurpose workhorse ship, you just cannot ignore other critical ship classes.

Reply #4 Top

Carriers are very good, just don't go overboard. I usually have 10 carriers as a separate fleet that sits in the edge of the grav well ready to jump out. Equal bombers and fighters unless I see the enemy fleet and I adjust accordingly.

Reply #5 Top

Any chance the Subverters are also using their Distortion Field ability? That can really ruin your day - one of them can lock down a lot of your frigates (especially if they're bunched up together) for 20 seconds. Nineteen Subverters managed carefully have a total disabling time of 380 seconds (which is a lot of lost firepower and ability usage, needless to say). If your Dunovs have EMP Bomb, use one on a cluster of Subverters - Distortion Field costs a lot of a Subverter's antimatter (around one third) and a level 3 EMP can remove one use.

If this is an AI player we're talking about, then it will probably waste all of its DF casts on a few targets and once the initial lockdown has passed, you have some time to kill the Subverters. Only Capitals and strike craft are unaffected by DF, but SC have pretty awful damage multipliers against support cruisers (25% for fighters, 50% for bombers) and Capitals don't have the damage to kill them quick enough.

Capital ship levels might also help. A level 6+ Marza with Missile Barrage can damage the entire enemy fleet all at once (just don't give it orders while MB is being used or let a Kortul with Disruptive Strikes fire on it). IIRC, Missile Barrage will do something like 3000 damage to every target in range if the full duration of the ability is used.

Reply #6 Top

Any chance the Subverters are also using their Distortion Field ability? That can really ruin your day - one of them can lock down a lot of your frigates (especially if they're bunched up together) for 20 seconds. Nineteen Subverters managed carefully have a total disabling time of 380 seconds (which is a lot of lost firepower and ability usage, needless to say). If your Dunovs have EMP Bomb, use one on a cluster of Subverters - Distortion Field costs a lot of a Subverter's antimatter (around one third) and a level 3 EMP can remove one use.
End of quote

Thats why using LFs is critical against Subverters - They do extra damage, cripple abilities AND on top of that they are much easier to mass then kodiaks (disabling 18 kodiaks hurt as hell,  while disabling 18 Cobalts is not worth getting subverters...). EMP can help too, but massed Cobalts are safer no-micro requiring option.

 

If this is an AI player we're talking about, then it will probably waste all of its DF casts on a few targets and once the initial lockdown has passed, you have some time to kill the Subverters. Only Capitals and strike craft are unaffected by DF, but SC have pretty awful damage multipliers against support cruisers (25% for fighters, 50% for bombers) and Capitals don't have the damage to kill them quick enough.
End of quote

Again: LFs. Extra damage, cheap, massable and can cripple support abilities...

Using SC in this scenario is limited because of Kortuls. He must take care of Kortuls first or do not use carriers.

 

Capital ship levels might also help. A level 6+ Marza with Missile Barrage can damage the entire enemy fleet all at once (just don't give it orders while MB is being used or let a Kortul with Disruptive Strikes fire on it). IIRC, Missile Barrage will do something like 3000 damage to every target in range if the full duration of the ability is used.
End of quote

Agree, but he need:

- lvl6 Marza

- no kortuls with disruptive strikes

It is not going to be easy, since his first cap (i guess) was akkan, and enemy already has 2 kortuls...

Reply #7 Top

The AI has very little firepower here compared to your 100 Kodiaks.  I don't see how you can be losing this, unless you managed to get all your Kodiaks disabled by the subverters.  You need to spread out a bit and try to pick off the subverters as best you can.

Be careful with high-level capital ships.  They drop like flies in late-game battles like these, and TEC capital ships are the worst of the bunch in this regard.  You need to use the "armistice" ability of the Akkan to keep it alive, and be sure to retreat any capital ship that is under too much fire.  Generally speaking as late-game TEC, I keep all my capital ships in the rear as reserve and angled in such a fashion that they can quickly retreat without needing to turn too much.

Reply #8 Top

Dang thats a lot of Heavies... you should have no prob except for the Subverters. There is no reason you should not be wining unless they are locking up your entire fleet (which is entirely possibly with bloody 19 of them).

As late game TEC i will generally avoid any grav well with that many teched subverters unless I have: an overwhelming advantage or plenty of LFs or as darvin said, crack out the akkan's armistice for some tricksies. 

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Arthanis, reply 3
Kodiak is very strong and cost-effective multipurpose workhorse ship, you just cannot ignore other critical ship classes.
End of Arthanis's quote

Agreed. Even in the late game your LRF and LF do have uses. I always try to mix up my fleets with a variety of ships.