Racial Diversitly?

from Sins Forums

what do U think about Racial diversity? a lot of ships feel the same. As i see it in the lore this is how the races are meant to be. And how do u think races should be in a future sins?

Advent: Cheap unit spammers with hordes of low-quality units

TEC: Balanced, "good guy" race that is fairly good at most things

Vasari: "few but elite" that relies on small mobile squads and extremely powerful units, but numbers are very limited and preservation is a priority.

as of now, many stats of each units seem the same. for a Vasari unit, i play like a teeny more like 100 credits and like 50 minerals more than TEC and 2 more supply for what??? just like 200 more hull and 100 more shields and 1 point of armor?? and the slightly cheaper advent unit has a little less power and hull but have plenty of shields. it doesnt feel much different to me.

like vasari One Enforcer should be standing up to 2-4 Kodiaks and 4-6 destras, and be very expensive but WORTH the cost and have some kind of limiting factor since the vasari all came from some outer planet that survived the empire and should rely on speed and raids and guerella tactics. It seems that they would have ships that are fast with decent firepower and focus on quick damage and then withdraw and should prioritise unit survivability. Capitol ships should be versatile and tricky like antorak marauder themed except with firepower as well

Advent should be able to produce units at very cheap rates and gather hordes of people in low-hull (fanatics dont care if they die), but high firepower units that die for the unity!, also it seems they should have more and cheaper capitol ships that can pull off tons of combos and emphasis would be on offense but the units would die easily.

TEC seem like they stick to their lore well enough since they are in the middle (or should be) but maybe they are spammed to easily and their units should survive longer than advent units.

So basically:

Advent: high number, high firepower for cost, have damaging abilities, die like flies, guardian will help balance out dying problems

Vasari: high-quality Fast, last long, have subversive abilities, few in number, subverter can help with number problem

TEC: balanced and decent at everything, no exceptional strengths, and some sort of support cruiser to help balance whatever weakness

and then superweapons should be doing something better as well

Novalith: Radiation maybe damages antimatter stores of ships and does damage? stopping trade makes no sense

Kostura: its an EMP, so maybe shield damage, increased weapon cooldowns, lower shields and shield mitigation, and increase Phase missile permeability?

Delivarance: psychic blast makes all ships roll a number 1 through 50? and frigates and cruisers that roll 15 or lower join advent, and capships that roll a 3 or lower join advent?

31,160 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

a lot of ships feel the same.

Are we playing the same game? Sure there are clearly defined unit types, but how each faction uses them can varry quite a lot. You need to use very different tactics for Illuminators compared to LRMs, yet they both fulfill the "long range frigate" role.

 

Advent: Cheap unit spammers with hordes of low-quality units

TEC: Balanced, "good guy" race that is fairly good at most things

Vasari: "few but elite" that relies on small mobile squads and extremely powerful units, but numbers are very limited and preservation is a priority.

This is not in the lore at all, its from Starcraft. The TEC are the economic giant which tries to overwhelm its opponents with brute force, the Advent rely on synergies between its unit types to make their fleets greater than the sum of its parts, and the Vasari rely on very unique and powerful abilities and research to make up for their units being weaker pound per pound.

Really you should read up in the strategy forum about all of these things before you think you know how the game should work.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

actually im not saying how it should be, it just says so in the instructions booklet but i feel such a discrpency, the vasari got an awful lot of units from one planet, and it says advent prefer cheaper units BUT as advent usually is outnumbered or on even numbers, and vasaris does seem too numerous and too similar to some tec units, im sorry if i worded it as how it should be, i was actually curious about other people's opinions

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Most people here are of the opinion that TEC is the "cheap spammers of horde units" faction, Advent is the "graceful synergy and combo" faction and Vasari is the "fight dirty" faction.  This fits the canon well, and although there's room for some interpretation this is how the factions actually play in-game.

I'm not sure what the manual states (I'd have to go reread it), but the TEC very much comes across as leaning on their industrial efficiency as their sole outstanding strength.  In practice, this is what carriers TEC from the early game to the late game: a distinct advantage in terms of the raw firepower and hull durability they can field.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
There is a manual!? Where?
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

The TEC are very similar to the Terrans from StarCraft, both have strong early game combos and economic supremacy (the Terrans in SCII more so than in SC), but the TEC suffers in the late game due to a lack of abilities besides Armistice that can compete with the likes of Advent and Vasari late game abilities. The Javelis LRM Frigate and the Garda Flak Frigate are a viable if not necessary option for the TEC.

The Advent are so reliant on combos and lots of shields, a tendency reminicent of the Protoss from StarCraft. I agree with the general consensus that the Advent has to spam Disciple Vessel in the beginning, even though they get the Aeria Drone Host at tier 2 it isn't practical and the Illuminator Vessel at tier 3 takes a lot of work to field, because its so much later than its TEC and Vasari equivalents.

The Vasari do indeed rely very heavily on unique technology like their mastery of phase space which has some parallels to the Zerg and creep from StarCraft. I wouldn't say the Vasari units are necessarily weaker (try to tell me the one stop shop phase missile is weak), it is more so a little inefficiency for their tremendous cost and supply considerations. The Ravastra Skirmisher must be relied on until some infrastructure is established due to the previously mentioned expense of Vasari units.

This seems very accurate given the lore I have seen. I would love to see more lore on like where things take place, I assume it must be the Areolian Sector due to the largest map of the same name. I believe that the course Sins, Entrenchment, and Diplomacy is very logical and believable.

The key to the superweapons is knowing how to use them for the best effect.

The Novalith Cannon must be used on key population and/or trade centers for the most effect

The Kostura Cannon must be used on key centers of infrastructure for the most effect.

The Deliverance Engine must be used in conjunction with well placed Temples of Communion for the most effect.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I'd actually say the Advent has the most powerful ships, not the Vasari, which kinda sucks because the Vasari ships are more expensive. In theory the latter is supposed to make up for it with awesome ship abilities-- Reactive Nanite Armor trumps Repair Bots in the heat of battle, Distortion Field absolutely dominates both Suppression and Demolition Bots because of the AOE effect (though that's due for a range nerf in the next patch, so we'll see if it's still viable).

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

why do we keep comparing sins to starcarft 2 races?

lets remember that sins was out before sc2.  >_<

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

There are a lot of similarities, that is all I am saying.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Zeta1127, reply 9
There are a lot of similarities, that is all I am saying.
End of Zeta1127's quote

To Starship Troopers you mean?

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ThreeLeafIvy, reply 7
I'd actually say the Advent has the most powerful ships, not the Vasari, which kinda sucks because the Vasari ships are more expensive. In theory the latter is supposed to make up for it with awesome ship abilities-- Reactive Nanite Armor trumps Repair Bots in the heat of battle, Distortion Field absolutely dominates both Suppression and Demolition Bots because of the AOE effect (though that's due for a range nerf in the next patch, so we'll see if it's still viable).
End of ThreeLeafIvy's quote

While I think its dangerous to compare races from other games, its been brought up a few times that the Vasari are much more like the GLA from Command and Conquer: Generals than the Protoss. In a straight up fight they will lose every time to the US and China. Instead they have to use their superior maneuverability and underhanded tactics to gain an advantage, which is exactly as a good Vasari player should play like.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Similarities exist between Sins and other games, they just seem to have things in common with the StarCraft races. I agree, the Vasari and the GLE are similar in their "fight dirty" aspect. Saying the Vasari and the Protoss are similar isn't very accurate, the only real similarity is their cost considerations.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Zeta1127, reply 12
Similarities exist between Sins and other games, they just seem to have things in common with the StarCraft races. I agree, the Vasari and the GLE are similar in their "fight dirty" aspect. Saying the Vasari and the Protoss are similar isn't very accurate, the only real similarity is their cost considerations.
End of Zeta1127's quote

If your looking for similarities I think you will tend to find them. The games all have similarities or heritage to various scifi's genres, games and literature, which is why I made the reference to starship troopers as in the novel. Personally, I find most of the similarities superficial as I definately don't feel like I'm playing starcraft or dow, etc when playing Sins.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 13

Quoting Zeta1127, reply 12Similarities exist between Sins and other games, they just seem to have things in common with the StarCraft races. I agree, the Vasari and the GLE are similar in their "fight dirty" aspect. Saying the Vasari and the Protoss are similar isn't very accurate, the only real similarity is their cost considerations.

If your looking for similarities I think you will tend to find them. The games all have similarities or heritage to various scifi's genres, games and literature, which is why I made the reference to starship troopers as in the novel. Personally, I find most of the similarities superficial as I definately don't feel like I'm playing starcraft or dow, etc when playing Sins.
End of ZombiesRus5's quote

Exactly what I am trying to say.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

doesnt really seem like it though

 

in m opinion if you want a space game that is really different play sword of the stars

while it doesnt have a campahign i dont really see very many similarities between games on that one

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

A campaign would make Sins.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

yes it would hoepfully if they do sins 2