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The Rebellion Speculation/Suggestion Thread

Darvin3

Join Date 12/2008

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The Rebellion Speculation/Suggestion Thread

This thread is for speculating and suggesting ideas for confirmed features. At present, this is the list:

- New Factions: Players decide whether to become Loyalists or Rebels, which unlocks a unique new tech tree granting them new technologies and ship variants.
- New Titan-class ships: Massive warships for each race that dwarf capital ships, these deadly new monsters are capable of wiping out entire enemy fleets single-handedly.
- New Capital Ships: A new capital ship class arrives, giving players new strategic options.
- New Corvette-class ships: Small, highly maneuverable light ships that are adept at a variety of tasks.
- Loyalist and Rebel versions of some of the existing Sins’ frigates and cruisers, each with their own unique strengths and weaknesses.
- Updated lighting and particle effects for enhanced visuals.
- New Victory Conditions to allow for more variety, differing strategies and shorter game sessions.
- Additional capital ship ability levels, for greater strategic choice.
- Impulse::Reactor support for chat, friends, achievements and more.

While I know this community has a wealth of creativity and ideas, I want to keep this thread focused on stuff that's going to make it into the game. So, as much as we all know that people want a campaign, that's not on the list. Feel free to write any comments, suggestions, ideas, or random responses to any of the stuff on the list.

So without further adieu, my own ideas and reactions:

Impulse::Reactor

Please, please, please have built-in map/mod transfer. Thank you.

New Victory Conditions

Victory conditions I'd love to see:

Domination: Control at least 60% of the galaxy for at least 30 minutes. The timer counts down twice as quickly if you control at least 70% of the galaxy, and six times as quickly if you control 80%. Victory is instant at 90% control. Uncolonizable gravity wells do not count to this requirement, but pirate bases do.

Artifact Excavation: All artifacts locations are revealed at the start of the match (there will be at least 2 per player under this game setting). To win, your team must control at least 75% of the artifacts (so if there are 5 artifacts, you must control 4 to win). Victory is instant when you achieve this.

Mega-Weapon: Super-weapons are disabled under this game mode; instead you build a “mega-weapon”. Its position on the tech tree replaces the super-weapon tech. The cost varies by faction (more for Vasari, less for Advent, compensating for prerequisites), but once it completes a count-down begins until it activates. Successful activation causes that team to instantly win the match. The location of a mega-weapon is revealed as soon as construction begins.

Contract Acquisition: All players can bid on a special contract to win the game. In order to win, you must maintain the higher bid for five consecutive minutes. Unlike bounty, this bid never depletes and does not contribute to anything except winning the game.

New Capital Ships

First off, I'm still hoping for the Dunov, Revelation, and Antorak to get some love. They've always come across as a bit "rushed" and never have really shined on their own. The guidance rework is a nice start, but doesn't quite get there. But hey, new caps, let's talk about what each faction could use:

TEC: I'd love to see a “command class” capital ship that focuses on controlling the battlefield. The only capital ship ability for TEC that's anything like this is targeting uplink. Here's a concept ability to see what I'm talking about: Disruption Matrix: All units, friendly and hostile, in an area of effect around this capital ship are immune to all special abilities. Persistent effects that are already in play are not removed.. Wouldn't that go nicely to counter guardians or subverters, eh?

Advent: With the Progenitor, Rapture, and Halcyon already providing more fleet support than Advent could ever need, an entirely different approach should be applied here. Advent could really use a true “dreadnaught” like the Marza or Vulkoras, since the dinky Revelation certainly doesn't apply. Pack it full of hard-hitting combat abilities and good frontal weaponry, and perhaps an ability that has stricter cooldown limitations to finally give a good combo for guidance.

Vasari: What do Vasari really need? They have great combat options, great support options, great specialty options... easily the most well-balanced capital ship lineup. I guess the only thing left to add is the sugary cereal to go with the balanced breakfast. How about an industrial capital ship that has the special ability to act as a frigate-factory, enabling it to produce units mid-battle (uses a cooldown rather than a build time, so the unit is produced instantly)?

Titan Class Ships

This one really gives me pause. What is the role of titans? What is their purpose? With capital ships and starbases both countered by bombers, and bombers being the dominant late-game unit to begin with, it would be total overkill for titans to be the same. So I'm actually rooting for some relatively strong anti-strike craft weaponry on these guys. The question becomes, what should their weaknesses be? They can't be unstoppable engines of destruction, after all.

Here's what I'm thinking:

Titans should be weak against capital ships and – wait for it – light frigates. The titans should have special abilities that require antimatter, but unlike capital ships they are not immune to the disruption abilities of light frigates. Once drained of antimatter, titans are much easier to take care of.

All titans should have anti-structure, anti-frigate, and anti-strike craft weapons. This enables them to be used to take down starbases, and tightly-packed frigate/SC forces. They use their antimatter-based abilities to boost their combat performance and plough through enemies, but are less powerful in the long-run once depleted and lack good weapons against high-durability targets that are not structures.

That's my angle on this issue.

Faction/Unit Variants

Am I the only one hoping we see a Skirmisher that gets phase missiles? One-way ticket from least-used unit in the game to everyone's favourite light frigate.

Eh, I'm gunna stop myself there...

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Allquixotic
Willduss

if they work as capital ship escorts, i think making them work like command points is the way to go... maybe escort points? (kinda sounds like you save them up and get a free hooker )

Also, you had a small grammatical error that made me come up with an idea: boarding parties. imagine a corvette that assaults and takes over an enemy ship, ala domination?

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Every single frigate in sins (save for scouts) has over 100 crew memebers... some significantly more.

Seriously, go look at the size of the windows... on some tec frigs. these things are huge.

I would call em capital ships.

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i see... so psychically overpowering the minds of 100 people so that they permanently turn on their allies makes sense, but a small ship of trained marines cant take them out?

or were you saying that in response to someone else?

[edit:] you were. sorry

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Quoting Pbhead,

reply 52

Every single frigate in sins (save for scouts) has over 100 crew memebers... some significantly more.

Seriously, go look at the size of the windows... on some tec frigs. these things are huge.

I would call em capital ships.

Crew numbers vs apparent ship size really makes no sense in Sins.

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I'm pretty sure one of the new factions will be the "Vasari Menace" and I'm also pretty sure it's related to what's linked in this post: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/406031

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When someone mentioned a sort of regicide mode with the idea of a command ship, it reminded me of an idea I once had for Sins.

Fleet Admirals. Basically each faction would be able to select one Fleet Admiral from a list of 3-5 choices. The Admiral would be assigned to a capital ship and provide a special bonus for all of your applicable units within that gravity well. Think of them as localized artifacts if you like. Their presence influences the forces under their command to perform better at certain duties. For example, one Admiral might add +6% weapons range. Another might grant +5% shield regeneration. Etc. Of course actual amounts would have to be playtested.

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You know that fleet admiral concept could be developed as a planetary bonus to all ships in a system--the more advanced the "command level" of the planet, the greater the effect.

It would make you not want to lose your planet if it was set up right. Would be awesome if it could be tied to destroyed enemies in system (and even better if asigned to a cap).

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that feature was in an old game called Star Wars:Rebellion

It was alot of fun, and sins takes me back to those days. But you had characters that you could use to improve your fleet, or send them on missions (such as diplomatic to increase allegiance, incite uprising to decrease allegiance on an enemy planet, sabatoge to... sabatoge things, and a few others that escape me now)

It might work for sins and bring it more of that 4x feel. But sadly, I dont think it will.

What would be nice, since they are not doing a campaign, would be to allow modders to make one. I dont think it would take much more than a way to add tutorial events to a map. It's basically missions and they do things like add ships, restrict movement. why cant you use this to add planets and slowly build up an enemy fleet in a story context?

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I know these are just wishes but I thought the game Haegemonia had some interesting ideas.

Heroes - It might be like Fleet Admirals. A random hero could ask to join for an up front payment then a steady x credits of income per second. A hero could boost a planet, capital ship, starbase or maybe any ship or fleets performance.

Spy ships - These ships would go into an enemy area undetected. They could steal tech or credits. Sabotage starbases, capital ships, or production. And they could be used to detect other spy ships in your area. There is nothing more annoying than seeing a starbase or capital ship suddenly explode from sabotage because you didn't setup any counter-intelligence. Spying and counter-intelligence would probably need it's own tech tree though.

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Spy ships, eh? I once proposed that Pirate Rogues have an ability like that as part of a pirate overhaul. Basically it would be a channeling ability where a strike team plants explosives on a facility. If the ship is destroyed during that time, or interrupted via the usual interrupt abillities, the sabotage is canceled. Otherwise the structure would go up 10 minutes later.

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Quoting Pbhead,

reply 46

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 41

I've never played X3, but they might be using a Star Wars-esque deffinition of capital ships where anything that can get into and travel in space by itself with weapons is a capital ship. Under this system everything from a Correlian Scout to a Star Destroyer is a capital ship, even though the former is a small frigate by Sins standards. Thus corvettes would be some more like a patrol boat.

NOTHING in the X3 universe can travel by itself, they all use jump/stargates.

That said... I wouldnt call m6's (you got a split and a telladi one there, me thinks) capital ships. m1, m2, and m7s would be capital ships.... they DWARF m6's, (and m0 would be titans)

In either case, a x3 mod would be awesome.

You are correct PB, I just pick those two since there is at least 50 different ships from the same class from various races. However, I did not say they were Caps but by the wiki, were identified as M6 or M6+, corvettes. Compared to the Sins ships, should be smaller than frigates...Bison...

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Fleet Admirals in that vein were actually best explored in Conquest:Frontier Wars. They had their own custom ships and special abilities iirc. They were intended to be semi-autonomous and capable of being tasked with things like 'defend this system' in order to free up the player. They were reasonably competent but AI being AI it was still better for the player to take direct control of micromanagement.

What I would do with Fleet Admirals in SINS would be give them the ability to auto-micromanage certain battle tasks like distributing strike craft resources appropriately, automatically reconstructing defenses, and ordering replacement ships from nearby shipyards. They could also gauge threat levels and give feedback if they determine they are outmatched or if the enemy fleet counters their own.

Another possibility for fleet admirals is formation personalities; one admiral might prefer keeping their ships together in a tight cluster and striking from afar, another spreads their ships out across a wide area to avoid AOEs, another sorts their ships into specific unit types and moves them around the battlefield as discrete squadrons.

As for Corvettes, I believe they will finally be a reliable hard bomber counter, even though the issues with Fighters mostly came down to AI...heh.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 50

If by typical you mean real life, I believe you mean after patrol boats. Can't really get much smaller than a motor boat with torpedoes and machine guns. Thus they would be inbetween patrol boats and frigates.

Patrol boats != motorboats, as seen here - they are usually ~30m long. Corvette sizes are all over the place, there are some corvettes bigger than patrol boats, but also quite a bit smaller than them.

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Please don't try too hard to titans very balanced. so many games end up putting to many checks and balances on the best unit and what should be the best thing ever turns out meh. if u spend tons of resources and wait a long time, you are taking a risk because you could just be spending it constantly churning out cheaper units, which is much less risky since u dont have to wait for 30 LRMs to all finish before you can use, they come online one by one which makes it not risky at all. when you take a huge risk, and build a titan but suffer by having a worse fleet while it's building, you should get much more bang for your buck when it is complete then if u spent it investing in frigates. higher tech things should be more efficient and bring more firepower for their cost. I apologize for my rant but please you should get what you pay for... if it costs 30HCs then it should be better per credit than an HC or LRM per credit for more research, and more risk taken, and such money spent. This seem to be a big problem that u dont get your money's worth at higher level investments, so spamming cheaper units is the way to go

On another note, how about add missile interdiction, i'm surprised nothing can jam missile guidance, and perhaps allow capitol ships to start at level 1 on the three basic abilities. maybe add heavier frigates with multiple weapon batteries? and then make techs longer, its sad that most things can only get a 30% firepower boost, especially weapons that only capitol ships have, they should give bigger buffs (longer tech tree hopefully?)

Also perhaps give capitol ships higher levels of armour, but take away the speed to kite. Maybe that could indirectly buff the Antorak if it gave some things the ability to kite. hehe maybe the new corvettes will also buff the antorak since they can charge through the enemy with distort gravity, i wish formations had more of an effect here. Maybe if ships range was lower in general, and there was missile jamming, formations would matter more

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I decided to throw together some capital ship concepts and went overboard. I'm posting them here for all to enjoy:

TEC Krishka Class Battlecruiser

Years of warfare has taught the TEC that simply possessing the most firepower is not necessarily a guarantee of victory. Developing special weapons to support the greater fleet and protect them from underhanded tricks took priority some years ago. Trillions of man-hours have gone into the development of the a new line of capital ship that can match and even surpass the most devastating abilities of either Advent or Vasari. The program has produced a single prototype, the Krishka class battlecruiser.

The Krishka is equipped with smaller calibur weapons than most capital ships, enabling it to attack strike craft with some of its weapons. However, this leaves it with meager reserves against larger targets, and it will require a large escourt as a result. It has good antimatter reserves, and above-average shields for a TEC ship.

Hull: 2800 +120 / level
Repair Rate: 1.5 +0.1 / level
Armor: 4.0 +0.35 / level
Shield: 1400 +150 / level
Shield Regen: 3.0 +0.2 / level
Antimatter: 260 +35 / level
AM Regen: 1.0 +0.15 / level

Weapons:

Missiles: Front-Facing / 15 DPS / 6000 range / capital-damage
Autocannon: Front-Side-Rear / 30 DPS / 4000 range / anti-light damage (can hit SC)
Laser: Rear-Facing / 15 DPS / 4000 range / capital-damage
Bombard: 38 DPS / 3000 range

Squadrons: 1-3 (same progression as Akkan)

Disruption Matrix:

With a burst of energy, the disruption matrix prevents nearby frigates or cruisers from activating special abilties. Channeling abilities are immediately ended, but persistent or passive effects remain in play. Capital ships are not affected by the disruption matrix.

Antimatter Cost: 80
Area of Effect: 2000/2500/3000
Duration: 15/20/30
Cooldown: 35

Interceptor Drones:

The target frigate or capital ship is surrounded by a network of interceptor drones. These drones give all attacks against the target a 50% chance to miss for the duration. This will not block special abilities. You can use this ability on yourself.

Antimatter Cost: 70
Duration: 20/30/40
Cooldown: 15
Range: 2000/2500/3000

Antimatter Cycling:

Whenever a nearby friendly unit uses an ability that costs antimatter, a small amount is regenerated on the Krishka Battlecruiser. Whenever the Krishka uses an ability that costs antimatter, a small amount is regenerated on all nearby friendly units. This ability is passive, and does not stack with multiple Krishkas.

Area of Effect: 2500/3500/5000
Antimatter Transferred: 10%

Example: If a nearby Hoshiko uses repair bots (50 antimatter), the Krishka will regenerate 5 antimatter instantly. If the Krishka activates disruption matrix (80 antimatter), all nearby friendly units will regenerate 8 antimatter instantly.

Overcharge (ultimate)

The Krishka emits a super-charged frequency that rips away the shields and antimatter of nearby enemies. This ability does 50 shield damage per second to affected targets, removes 10 antimatter per second, and causes mitigation to fall at a rate of 10% per second (it can drop as low as 0% while under the effect of overcharge). This ability has no cooldown, and instead costs antimatter to remain active. It does not interact with antimatter cycling.

Antimatter Cost: 15/second
Area of Effect: 3000

Advent Maven Class Destroyer

The wrath of the unity has grown in the face of fractures and internal conflict. This strife has given birth to the Maven Class, a true destroyer that has since terrorized countless worlds. The Maven adheres to the philosophy that only overwhelming power can possibly prevail in combat, and any threat to the unity must be put down swiftly and brutally. The Maven is equally terrifying to both friend and foe, hell-bent as it is on complete annihilation.

The Maven is armed with primarily forward-facing weapons with well-above average range. It has no strike craft until reaching higher levels and the highest hull value of any Advent capital ship. The Maven has below-average antimatter reserves.

Hull: 2400 +110 / level
Repair Rate: 1.5 +0.1 / level
Armor: 4.5 +0.4 / level
Shield: 1600 +160 / level
Shield Regen: 3.0 +0.2 / level
Antimatter: 225 +20 / level
AM Regen: 0.75 +0.08 / level

Weapons:

Plasma: Front-Facing / 29.5 DPS / 4500 range / capital-damage
Laser: Front-Side / 15 DPS / 5000 range / capital-damage
Beam: Front-Facing / 10 DPS / 6000 range / capital-damage
Bombard: 45 DPS / 4000 range

Squadrons: 0-2 (same progression as Marza)

Shockwave:

The Maven fires a shockwave bomb to the target location. The missile moves relatively slowly, giving units time to get out of the way. When it reaches its destination, the shockwave bomb explodes, dealing damage to all units (friendly and enemy) in the area of effect. Frigates and cruisers, but not structures or capital ships, are stunned by the blast.

Note: there is no minimum range on this ability, so targeting a location close to the Maven will cause the bomb to go off sooner and give the enemy less time to react.

Range: 5000/8500/12000
Area of Effect: 2500
Damage: 300/350/400
Stun Duration: 4 / 6 / 8 seconds
Antimatter Cost: 90
Cooldown: 20 seconds

Enervation:

The Maven absorbs the life-force of a planet, boosting its powers in the process. You can target your own planet to gain this boost, but the planet still takes damage and loses population. If the planet reaches zero population, the benefits of enervation are cut in half. If the planet reaches zero health and turns neutral, the benefits end immediately. This ability does not require you to face the planet or channel.

Note: Planets with auxiliary government remain valid targets, even when reduced to 0 hp

Antimatter Cost: 80
Duration: 30
Cooldown: 50
Range: 4000

Planet Damage: 20 per second
Population Damage: 1 per second

Bonus Hull Regeneration: 20 / 30 / 40 per second
Bonus Plasma Damage: 40 / 80 / 120 additional DPS
Bonus Bombard Damage: 20 / 40 / 60 additional DPS (I'm aware of the cruel irony)
Bonus AM Regeneration: 4 / 6 / 8 per second

Repression:

The Maven's weapons don't just attack the physical frame of a ship, but also the hearts and minds of its crew, demoralizing them against the might of the unity. This reduces the damage, antimatter regeneration rate, and movement speed of any target attacked by the Maven.

Duration: 10 / 15 / 20 seconds
Damage Reduction: 20% / 30% / 40%
AM Regen Reduction: 25% / 35% / 45%
Move Speed Reduction: 10%

Wrath of the Unity (ultimate):

The target frigate or cruiser is immediately destroyed. If the target was an enemy, this creates a shockwave explosion at the target location. If the target was friendly, all its remaining hull and shield points are transferred to the maven and you gain the full boost of your enervation ability. This boost does not stack with using the enervation ability.

Note: The full effect of Wrath of the Unity is dependent on your ability levels in Shockwave and Enervation. IE, if you have level 2 enervation and use this ability on a friendly frigate, you gain the benefit of level 2 enervation.

Cooldown: 30 seconds
Range: 3000
Antimatter Cost: 150

Vasari Rakul-Class Overlord

In the deepest recessess of the Vasari fleet are the Overlords. They were originally civilian craft used by the Vasari empire as mobile industrial centers to rapidly develop new sectors. Today they are refitted as tools of war, to bolster the Vasari in the most remote and forsaken of battlefields.

The Rakul has relatively few weapons, owing to its primary purpose as an industrial facility. However, it does field an above-average number of strike craft, starting with two at the first level.

Hull: 3000 +120 / level
Repair Rate: 1.5 +0.1 / level
Armor: 4.0 +0.3 / level
Shield: 1000 +100 / level
Shield Regen: 3.0 +0.2 / level
Antimatter: 235 +25 / level
AM Regen: 0.9 +0.1 / level

Weapons:

Pulse-Beam: Front-Facing / 14.5 DPS / 5000 range / capital-damage
Pulse: Side-Rear / 10 DPS / 5000 range / capital-damage
Wave: Side-Rear / 10 DPS / 5000 range / capital-damage
Bombard: 40 DPS / 3000 range

Strike Craft: 2-5 squads

(extra squads are gained at level 4, 6, and 9)

Rapid Assembly:

The Rakul can act as a frigate factory, producing units in the heat of battle. Frigate production is stopped when phase jumping. Each additional point added to rapid assembly adds an additional production facility, increasing the number of units that can be built simultaneously. This ability can be used to build both frigates and cruisers.

Production Speed Bonus: +50%
Production Facilities: 1 / 2 / 3

Deploy Repair Platform:

The Rakul deploys a temporary repair platform that will replenish nearby friendly units. This repair platform stacks with regular repair platforms, but its effect is slightly different (see below)

Antimatter Cost: 90
Cooldown: 30 seconds
Duration: 30 / 50 / 70 seconds

Repair Amount: 10 / 15 / 20 hull per second
Repair Duration: 30 seconds
Antimatter Cost: 10 antimatter
Cooldown: 1 second

Platform Hull: 1500 / 2000 / 2500
Platform Antimatter: 200 / 300 / 400

Nano-Assemblers:

The Rakul dispatches nano assembler bots towards the target. This causes the target to regenerate hull points and increases strike craft replacement rate. If the target is capable of building frigates, cruisers, or capital ships, its build rate is boosted for the duration. If the target is an incomplete structure (not starbase) it will cause it to build and an accelerated rate, even if there are no constructors working on the job. At the first level, this ability requires you to face forward. At the second level, it can be targeted in any direction. At the third level, it can target yourself.

Build Rate Bonus: +50%
Strike Craft Replacement Bonus: +50%
Antimatter Cost: 65
Duration: 20 / 30 / 40 seconds
Hull Repaired: 20 / 30 / 40 per second
Cooldown: 20 seconds

Nano-Leech:
A tentacle lashes out from the Rakul and attaches to the target. This tentacle is made of nano-bots, and will drain the target of hull and antimatter to fuel the Rakul. The ability remains active until the target moves out of range. There is no limit to the number of nano-leeches a Rakul can have simultaneously. The Rakul does not need to face the target to activate this ability.

Activation Range: 4000
Maximum Range: 6000

Hull Damage: 10 / second
Antimatter Damage: 4 / second
Hull Regenerated: 10 / second
Antimatter Regenerated: 2 / second

Antimatter Cost: 75
Cooldown: 8

In hindsight, I adore the Maven class. Great abilities both in theme and in implementation, and I'd love to see something like it in the game. I like the Krishka, too, but not quite as much as the Maven. As an aside, all TEC capital ship names are Russian words. Krishka means "cover", or at least according to google translator it does. I'm more reserved about the Rakul; it sounded better in my head than it did on paper. I'm going to post it anyways just so I have a complete set.

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eeehehe, those would be nice. perhaps even too nice.

see, captial ships on average have one useless ability... these dont seem to have any.

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see, captial ships on average have one useless ability... these dont seem to have any.

My "golden standard" is the Halcyon-Class Carrier. Three very useful abilities, powerful both in the early-game and late-game, applicable and relevant to practical fleets, but not overpowering in every aspect. That said, a lot of these are rough numbers I was tossing off the top of my head that could indeed be too good.

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Darvin3 I want IC to prety much copy paste what you just wrotte down into rebelion.

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Damn Darvin, let us find out you got a copy of "to do list for rebellion, C and B Fraser."

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i agree, the Mavin sounds amazing

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oh! how about a late game tech to get capitol ships up and running at higher levels because a lv 1 sucks late game. basically a mass trancendance thing

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oh! how about a late game tech to get capitol ships up and running at higher levels because a lv 1 sucks late game. basically a mass trancendance thing

Mass Transcendance is Advent's thing. TEC and Vasari can still buy capital ship levels, it's just expensive.

I think the bigger problem is that there are too many capital ships that suck at level 1. The good capital ships that get used in online play are generally quite decent even from level 1, which is exactly the reason why they get used. Perfect example of that rarely gets used is the Dunov; not a bad capital ship, but its abilities only come into their own after it gains a few levels and it has no real role until then.

EDIT: I've added stat blocks to my capital ships just so they feel complete.

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Quoting Darvin3,

reply 72

oh! how about a late game tech to get capitol ships up and running at higher levels because a lv 1 sucks late game. basically a mass trancendance thing
Mass Transcendance is Advent's thing. TEC and Vasari can still buy capital ship levels, it's just expensive.

I think the bigger problem is that there are too many capital ships that suck at level 1. The good capital ships that get used in online play are generally quite decent even from level 1, which is exactly the reason why they get used. Perfect example is the Dunov; not a bad capital ship, but its abilities only come into their own after it gains a few levels and it has no real role until then.

The dunov wouldn't be a bad starter ship if it was forward firering. If you didnt have to way 30 second for you damned EMP blast you have there and now when you need not after it's to late. That is the only reason why I don't build dunovs much the constant having to wait for you to use it good ability kills it. It's the only side firerign cap with a forward shootinf ability and it's killing it. That is the major flaw of the Dunov. I can and do have Dunov play books, but it's just ineficient because of the waiting for the damn thing to turn.

And Darvin Yay for the first vasari cap with no Phase Missiles.

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And Darvin Yay for the first vasari cap with no Phase Missiles.

Technically no; since it starts with two strike craft squads and relatively low base weapon damage, the majority of its damage is actually PM-based. At any rate, the Jarrasul doesn't have phase missiles, either.

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darvin i would love the Vasari Overlord idea. With a few of those sent through wormholes you could completely blindside opponents

Oh about the advent Maven. What happens if the target is a starbase or capital. Would it just damage them or what?

Would these ships still be useful with Rebellion, i mean some tweaks may make them less useful

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