You guys are overthinking too much...

There are so many problems with you're rebuttal I'm not even sure where to start.

So, i'll start with the easy stuff.  First off, Scuds can't shoot into space.  They lack the fuel to get a payload that high, and their fuel type is standard rocket fuel.  It'd stall long before it got anywhere close  You'd need AT LEAST an ICBM to hurt a target in geosync orbit, but you'd require pretty much anything that can get that high to kill anything in an orbit(~70k kph realitive speeds are a pain on everything)

As for putting all the laser tech into a sub, you have a problem.  In space, weight isn't an issue.  My ship can be as big as I want it to be, so long as I can generate the thrust to move it.  A sub has to be small enough its own weight doesn't crush it, and has to generate more thrust still, because it has to deal with the water around it on top of its own mass.

Second, firing a laser beam at a target around pluto is stupid, and isn't going to work.  Earth is 1AU from the sun, and it takes ~8 minutes for light to reach us from there.  Pluto is an average of 40 AUs from the sun, which means light takes over 5 hours to get there.  That also means light has to travel 5 hours from pluto to your eyes so you can see it, and because of the travel time, you're looking at something 5 hours old.  Where it's gone in the mean time is something you'll only know of 5 hours after it got there.  Your laser beam also has to travel that 5 hours to reach the target,  And I may be doing some 40k km per hour, which makes your life double hard.  Where am I now, and where will I be when that laser actually arrives?  You can see the problems.  And to top it all off, I had 5 hours of look at you before you even SAW me.  I know everything i need to know in that time.

Next up, assuming you have a solar powered death ray, why can't I just slap 2 nuke reactors and a propulsion unit to the same damn thing and have my own mobile death ray?  Not only can match you're yeild, I can move mine from it's fixed orbit, but you're would have noticed mine right before the ray got there, so it's all a moot issue anyway.  Not that you could hit me with all the travel times.

And lastly, defences are pretty easy to spot.  They have these nice, distinct appearances from the air, and if a plane can tell a nuke silo from a corn silo, so can I.  Just enter the profile into a computer, and let it do its thing.  The process is like police computers getting finger prints.

But this does give some problems to both sides.

In the same way, your rebuttal has multiple flaws.

1. A weapon the size of a SCUD could feasibly reach several hundred kilometers of altitude. Similarly, a SCUD with a nuclear thermal rocket instead of a chemfuel booster would be capable of reaching higher altitude.

2. A spacecraft does have mass limitations. You can't build your lasership as big as you want, because otherwise when it starts moving, it will collapse under the stress of support it's own mass.

3. It's not stupid. It's simply not feasible in an efficient manner. It is possible, however.

4. Simple. A beamed power station is close to the Sun, providing abundant and cheap power. It arguably doesn't even need a propulsion unit; simply strap on a bunch of solar sails and fire the energy transmission units into the sails. Bam. Instant beamed propulsion system. Furthermore, from what I gather, you're saying that a spaceship powered by a pair of nuclear reactors (not a bad idea, mind you) and equipped with a drive system would be superior.

It wouldn't; such a system requires a much more robust logistics train, to supply nuclear fuel (when necessary) and propellant, as well as handling disposal of radioactive reactor materials. It also requires more maintenance, as keeping both reactors running at full power would be rather foolish, unless you need that much power, and have the means to radiate the waste heat.

5. Incorrect; a defensive system does not by default have a highly distinct appearance. Furthermore, just because it's easy to spot from 40,000 feet DOES NOT mean it's easy to spot at orbital altitudes. Additionally, just because you can see it doesn't mean you can strike it. In any scenario with interplanetary warfare, surface defenses WILL defeat an invading fleet of warships. It's quite simple, really.

A surface laser doesn't need to even rival or exceed a spaceship's laser; the surface emplacement can simply fire for much, much longer. This means it has a definite advantage. A planetary missile launcher also has missile manufacturing facilities and much larger stockpiles at the ready, and within much easier logistics distances than the orbiting warfleet.

Furthermore, the process is not like police computers getting finger prints. It's much, much harder. The highly cluttered surface of a planet means that defensive battery systems would easily be dispersable.

As an aside, there are people much more qualified than you or myself, who debate this sort of thing fairly regularly. Check rec.arts.sf.science, a Google group. The general consensus there is that surface defenses>orbiting warfleet, by a significant amount.

Better armored siege frigates, and new bigger siege cruisers. 

4. Simple. A beamed power station is close to the Sun, providing abundant and cheap power. It arguably doesn't even need a propulsion unit; simply strap on a bunch of solar sails and fire the energy transmission units into the sails. Bam. Instant beamed propulsion system.

mmm...

unless i am reading this wrong, this dont worky. newtons laws and such... specificly, the action=reacton bits.

Yes it does. At least theoretically.

laser ------> sail----->

Its like using a massive fan being blown onto a wind sail. Downside is that it has a limited range.

Course, that's the kicker. Theoretically it works. But in practice? Who knows. I mean, we have done experiments with beamed propulsion and microsatellites, but nothing on the scale of a beamed power station.

I think what I would really like to see in Rebellion are options for a minimap to see different stars (I played a very long game that I barely finished with 300 planets) and finding your way is not always easy when you play a lot with the camera ! (Sadly I lost to the advent who magistrally harassed me and my allies with pirates, I use all my money on it... lol and they they arrived in my home system and continued to send reinforcement while my allies were not doing ****, I was Vasari and the TEC got erased from the galaxy really quickly)

Also, a different way to manage planets or an option to do it, because the side of the screen gets confusing when you have a 100 planets under your control and that you're putting mines everywhere. And if you're trying to find back the planets you want, it's not always easy even if you pin them. So maybe a way to definitely hide planets you don't really care about unless they're attacked. I would like to see them managed by stars or have a window to manage them better. Eventually a "second screen" in a window? Like that you would be able to manage 2 planets zoomed in at the same time without having to jump back and forth.

That's what I hope to find in Rebellion !!! I think it would be so much more Awesome than any upgrade to ships and planets.

Those problems do not arise in small games but when you get into a game with 20 players and over 300 planets among 15+ solar system, managing planets and fleet gets hard and you spend your time zooming in and out in order to find where to manage what.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I vote for a minimap too!

YEEEEEESSS. This is an excellent idea.

In Elemental there is hide/show minimap, I think it would be awesome ! =D

And maybe a zoom option on the minimap too.

I keep my "planet window" idea too.

Another idea would be to have the possibility to map screen positions to hotkeys ! Like press alt+1 or whatever +1 and you remember the position of the screen at a certain position / zoom level, so you could easily jump to 10 different screen location to manage your planets.

Lore:

Well, the game is about rebellion, isn't it? So I think there should be some kind of Dark Advent as rebellious faction, just like the Chaos Space Marines or Dark Eldar in Warhammer 40k. They could use dark and mysterious rituals, like devouring allied ships to become stronger or to gain health. This isn't in the codex of the original Advent and so a great schism splits the Advent into two factions. 

The Vasari could split into a faction, that wants to support the old values of the Dark Fleet, means big ships and a new empire to face off the unknown menace. In later research, they can gain contact to the remnants of the Dark Fleet and could get very powerful new technologies. The second faction could be more the nomadic, hideous and the agile way. They want to search for another way to confront the menace, like ancient artifacts and weapons and not just facing them with big ships.

But maybe the menace that threatens the Vasari was a rebellion, who knows...?

The TEC could split into these two factions: A trader faction, who just want to consolidate their trade order worlds. They are the ones, who have the old veterans. And the other one maybe a more paramilitary or secret service elite arm of the TEC, who want to strike back all attacking invaders with newest technologies but with less experience in direct battles.

Gameplay:

An option for planetary governors, who defend your colonies if they're attacked. If you have too much planets, this could be useful. Maybe the governors should get a little reward for defending...

There should be an option, that you can build up very big structures like dyson spheres, star blowing cannons or other galactic wonders, if you have two other allied empires on your side. They combine their ressources and technology to create something, well... big. It could be dependent on which factions you have on your side or you can choose between different options. That would make diplomacy much more interesting in ways of usage.

Another suggestion would be to add more astronomical object types, like black holes, different kinds of nebulae, colonizable moving comets/asteroids which can travel between the stars, binary star systems and maybe protostars. Different new planet types would give the game a nice touch. And last but not least as an example my favorite, the extinct planet from the Maelstrom modification:

A mysterious space area like the Bermuda-Triangle in space would also be a nice addition, with damaged or almost destroyed ghost ships chasing you, appearing and vanishing just before your eye...

The thing I'd like to see most is New Victory Conditions (No sense clogging this thread with what's already been said before)

Beyond this here's a few other ideas that would make things more "fun":

Solar Flares- Random Solar flares that eject in a random direction on occasion, (1-6 an hour maybe?) with a range limited to the gravity well of the sun and only effecting masses of ships they actually hit. Ships hit by the flare could suffer moderate-heavy shield/anti matter damage, making camping a solar body more risky/difficult then currently.

The Vasari's Nemesis race- It's mentioned in the back-story the Vasari are running from something, but what exactly is never revealed. Seeing this new race in all their horror would make for a nice continuation of the story and give the races good reason to rebel against themselves and ally with former enemies.

Better Assaulting AI- Even on the highest difficulty setting the Aggressor AI is somewhat... stupid. When it comes to assaulting a heavily fortified planet they often go with a frigate/cruiser wave with only 1-3 low level supporting cap ships which a decently fortified planet can repel without much difficulty. Perhaps giving the Ai several pre-selected and escalating fleet designs it will build in response to a failed assault attempt would make them able to eventually pose a serous threat/overwhelm a defended planet given enough time? (Right now a properly defended planet is all but un crackable by the AI's best formed fleet) Seeing a 10 5+ level cap ship strong fleet supported by a wave of cruisers and frigs would be a nice improvement.

Better Defending AI- As it is the Fortifying AI even on the Unfair difficulty doesn't put much effort into fortifying their planets. Most have a couple defense turrets, and maybe a half to quarter upgraded star base a solid assaulting fleet can conquer without much effort or losses. Make them fortify their planets using all available perhaps even stationing a defensive fleet of ships around the more strategically valuable planets?

Single Player Storyline- While I'm not expecting a a high end traditional experience with full voice overs and cut-scenes ala the Homeworld series (although that would be a dream come true) having some sort of single player campaign similar to what Galactic civilizations II delivered would be really neat.

Being able to explore the relationships between the races, and the sub factions as well the personalities that lead to their inevitable rebellion would really make the whole idea for a rebellion feel more "concrete" and make the rebelling factions have more personality and importance then faceless splinter groups.

(A campaign tool set letting players make their own storyline's would be nice as well)

Design your own Flagship- This would be a sort of sub menu in the "player config" menu before starting a game. The player could choose from among the default flagship hulls (for their race of course) as well as what the special abilities of the ship would be, letting them make a truly unique flagship suited to their play style. Toss in a little custom color or decal options and it would be even better.

Captain Personalities- Give each capital ship a (randomly?) selected (Rebel?) captain, with a specific personality and a fighting style that would apply to whatever fleet they are part of, but only if they are leader of the fleet. (Otherwise the bonus only applies to their ship.) Some of the varied fighting styles could be the "defensive fighter" giving a small % boost to shields/shield & hull regen, or a "Explorer captain" that gives the fleet a speed and turning/maneuvering % bonus; and of course the "Bloodthirsty Captain" That would give a bonus % to weapon cool downs and damage.

Since the player can only have one leader of a fleet, it would lead to a strategic choice of whom to place in command, making for more variety in tactical approach.

(Adding in some unique voices/phrases for each captain would also be a nice plus.)

I want a very stupid and simple feature... In the map generator: Add a possibility to choose the color of the nebula

And maybe a possibility to move suns in particular paterns like circle, circle +1 in center (which is already what is happening), triangle, square, ...

Like that the map generator would create maps more team friendly with allies closer to each other.

I know, I know... Galaxy Forge is out there... But I'm not much of a mapper so I just use the map generator with custom setting and most the time I got what I want except team are splitted a bit everywhere =(

I'm going to simply say this:

There won't be star-killing cannons or astroengineering constructs or other such things. It's simple not within the engine's capabilities, and would necessitate to much of a change, that the devs have already stated will not happen.

Further, a star-killing cannon is simply stupid.

However, you redeem yourself with the suggestions of the Vasari splinter factions, the addition of new planet types (note that, IMO, a Black Hole should not be a planet, but rather a star type), and the Bermuda-Triangle space-zone.

I also rather like the comet/asteroid idea, except the "travel between stars" part. Because a comet does not travel between stars. I can't stress that enough; a comet's permanently trapped by its star's gravity, and thus will continue to orbit said star until it melts or breaks up into nothingness. But it's an interesting idea.

I also like the binary-star concept.

As an aside, IRL the Dyson Sphere isn't a very good idea. Building a giant shell around a star? No thanks. Building a swarm of satellites that do the same thing? Yes please. The first is a massive engineering difficulty, while the second isn't.

TBH, only the first four things you've suggested are likely to appear in the game, and the first is a bit more iffy than the other three.

Solar Flares: I like the concept. A lot, in fact. Especially since, as you've worded it, it only affects those objects within it's gravity well. However, extending it to affect all objects within the solar system would probably be of minor difficulty within the code.

The best way I could think to do it is script an ability on the star that resembles the superweapons of the factions.

The better AI options, I think everybody wants. And I quite support these items. There also the most likely to occur, IMO.

Nemesis Race: I like this idea. It could be a very interesting idea; however, I'd not put them in as a playable race (they'd either be horribly OP or uselessly UP). Rather, I'd script them as "super-pirates"; they attack non-Vasari because they're simply in the way, and Vasari because, well, they're the Vasari's nemesis.

The devs, have, sadly stated that there will not be a campaign or any campaign-related elements. I know, it hurts.

They might be able to improve the AI, but it will never be that great.  Human players will always be able to trip it up.  It's just not capable of real strategic thought and won't be able to figure out how to properly respond to every situation.  Playing this game well requires higher reasoning skills than what a collection of algorithms can provide.  The Sins AI is not bad and probably pretty good as far as AI goes, but it is what it is.

The good news is that if you want more competent opponents, you can always log onto Ironclad Online and play against real people (what some call "the real Sins game").  You'll discover that the games are more challenging, more intense, more suspenseful, and more satisfying.  You'll also have to delve deeper into the game's strategy and real opponents will challenge you strategically in ways the AI never could.  Team games also add a new element of team-based strategy and cooperation that is completely lacking in single player.  Note that it only takes about 1.5 hours to play a PvP game online.

If the AI is no longer a challenge for you, then it might be time to remove the training wheels, to man up, and come try some 4v4 or 5v5 games on the Diplomacy expansion.

is the lasor connected to the thing with the sail?  cause the recoil from the laser....

think:  massive fan blowing onto a wind sail.... and the massive fan is on the hull of the ship.  it dont work.

No that won't work because.....

The laser is connected to the power station and is pointed at the sail. That is why I said the downside of this technique is range because the laser become ineffective after the vessel gets out of its range.

What about moons?

Where are all the moons in the universe? Which could provide additional population etc...

Would be fun to see some moons !

And then there would be a weapon that would throw moons at the ennemy fleet like a ping pong ball ! The poeple on the moon would be shaken a lil' bit but it's not very important ! You would have bouncing moons on the ennemy fleet !!!!!

What about a giant basket with that? and throwing the moon would involve some skills but if it go through the space basket then you would get a bonus like... uuuh... Instant Additional Ships ! or Space ponies ! You could throw your moon through the entire galaxy to another solar system ! And if you succeed, the ponies go raid your ennemies and crush them !!!!

Isn't that A-W-E-S-O-M-E ????

All the moons are found in Galactic Civilizations. 

That said, I've seen Asteroids spawn so close to Ice Planets on some maps that they might as well be a moon.  It also confuses things when the pirates attack, because they can actually flip from one gravity well to the next. 

Most moons are just chunks of rock trapped by the planet's gravity into a stable orbit In that sense, technically every planet in Sins has moons - the resource rocks  

No, I mean I want to be able to basketmoon them at the ennemy and get space ponies allies as a reward !

Yeah, ok star killing weapons are really a little bit overpowered and like a win button.

I know that a comet, in view of present research, can't travel between stars, but they maybe could with the right engines. This would allow some strategical placement for them not being attacked by enemy fleets. However, it was just brainstorming, there could also be the possibility of just upgradeable asteroid stations.

To the Dyson spheres: That's right, a big shell would not only look a little bit weird in the game, it would also being a cost-benefit thing. In theory there are different types of them, the Dyson shell, the Dyson bubble, the Dyson ring and the Dyson swarm.

To stars in general, I would say that there could be star giants which are placed a little bit under the map and the battlezone and if a ship gets destroyed, it will crush into the sun below.

I really like the idea of the Vasari nemesis fleet as non-playable faction, too. That would give the whole rebellion thing a background detail without adding a whole campaign.

If this is the case, perhaps we could petition the devs to have some of these resource rocks look like a "proper", spherical moon?

@Divos- the problem with a star-killing weapon isn't so much an "I win button", as a "total waste of possible resources" button. While conquest of a star system would take more time and cost more than simply destroying the star and the system (generally, "star-killer" methods cause a supernova event, destroying the planetary system), you also get the benefit of territory, people, and resources.

And it's not that the Dyson sphere concept is bad, per se, it's that the implementation as a giant spherical shell is. The mechanical stresses and materials requirement are too great. Besides, a ringworld is cooler.

Likes Mar's moons?

I agree with the destroying stars thing, it is ridiculous to destroy potentially useful areas and ressources. It was a "I have absolute power"-thought.  

Yup, the concept behind the Dyson sphere theory is indeed interesting.

But back to suggestions:

The astronomer Carl Sagan mentioned an Encyclopedia Galactica in his works. Maybe the developers could add something like this for background information about the factions, the ships, history and especially what happened the past years in the game. Something similar to the Mass Effect 2 codex. It would avoid the need of a campaign.

The pirates should get more different types of bases, like space hulks, old damaged and modified warships which can attack the player without other weapon batteries.

Artifacts like abandonded floating supercomputers in space which grant access to research boni would also be an interesting thought, wouldn't it?.