Advent Fleet strategies for Multiplayer and Extras

Any way you look at it, playing as the Advent is going to be more challenging than playing as the other races. I hardly ever play as them, so the advice I can give you is limited, but here I go:

1: Forget about Harmony upgrades at the beginning. The Advent have the weakest fleet and they need it to be upgraded to have a remote chance against Double-Skirantra rushes and such.

2: Research Beams. Beams are the most powerful weapon of the Advent and are the weapon of the bombers.

3: Research Plasma. Plasma is the primary weapon of the Advent's capital ships and the weapon of the Destra Crusader. Get this done quick.

4: Shield Research. Get this to the maximum as quickly as you can. This is critical to the Advent's survivality.

5: Try to get Mass Trendescance. (Or whatever this is called.) This allows Advent Capital ships to constantly gain expierence till the level cap.

6: Extras: 1: Yes, get the beam upgrades. 2: Use a good combination of platforms and hangars. Make sure you hand place the platfors, though!

One final thing, as your free flagship, you can't go wrong with a Halcyon Carrier. Once it reaches a certain level, it can garrison 3 extra squadrons.

That's it from me. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Advent have the best flack in the game.  starting with flack off the bat will force the enemy players to build lfs.... which is teh lulz.  if they dont build lfs. your superpowered flack*halycon+repair bay combo will hurt.

then go to destras. they have the highest dps/fleet supply of the heavies in the game.

I think you might have 1 too many capital ships. idk. ima not really an advent player.

Its amazing how fast people have forgotten that the Advent has the best military throughout most of Sins' history. That the Vasari now have that title is a very new phenomenon.

Anyways, the Advent's biggest problem is that they have the hardest time getting their long range frigate and unless you macro them to get the most of their side beams they are also the worst. This is what makes them vulnerable to early game rushes. If your opponent is only sending LRFs at you its quite easy to counter since the advent get early carriers (load them with fighters), but most of the time they mix flak as well which is where the problem arises. In this situation there is no real good tactic you can use. If its against the TEC you can attempt to out last them with a battleball, but this doesn't work against the Vasari thanks to phase missiles.

If you can survive to the mid game though your chances start to go up though. Repulsion is still very effective, and Desdras are your most dependable source of fire power (it would be bombers but they don't work well when attacking Vasari planets, though its still quite effective on the defensive) and are less vulnerable to assailant phase missiles (just have some Halycons to keep the bombers away). If the game lasts long enough resurrection is a huge advantage for the Advent as it basically makes capital ships expendable, as you can constantly revive your level 10 capital ships while your opponents need to restart at level 1. But the real challenge is getting that far.

1. You really don't have much variety here. Halycon + disciples is your only real option, with a Progenitor as quickly as possible. Carriers as well if you are faced with a pure LRF spam.

2. Already discussed.

3. It depends a lot on your skill and how many progenitors you have (and what level they are). If you are facing Vasari you won't want many guardians until you have repulsion.

4. If you need to bring out Illuminators, always maneuver them so they have at least two if not three of their side beams firing. It's a lot of work but you need to exploit this to maximize your damage output.

5. First of all, do not do this if there are a lot of phase missile units, otherwise you caps won't last long. Otherwise just form a battleball close to the enemy fleet and use them at will.

6. The Radiance really should not be used much, only in the mid game if your opponent has a lot of capital ships (especially ones that can disable your caps). Halycons and Progenitors will be your main capital ships at all stages of the game.

7. Depends on your situation, but I like to get 1 Halycon and a Progenitor early, the order depends on how fast you have to colonize without running into your enemies.

8. Beam upgrades are not really worth while in multiplayer games, only late game once you have dozens of beam units.

9. Mostly repair platforms with a single hangar to provide shields once you've researched it. Beam platforms are not worthwhile in most cases. Only exception is if you are the eco player and you are attempting rapid expansion.

Once fleets become relatively large, the Rapture's Vertigo can reduce the firepower of a large number of ships, or can hang back with Drone Hosts to give their strike craft a damage boost.

I would add a couple things...

DO NOT underestimate the power of laser technology...lasers are on disciples, fighters, and defense vessels (which are all 3 of your early units)...they're the only weapon on all five capital ships and they're also on starbases (if you get first weapon upgrade)...the other 2 weapon technologies are more expensive and won't do you much good early on...

Deceit is your single most effective strategy for Advent...you must prevent the enemy from getting a good read on what your fleet composition is...this is not always feasible but is generally doable...since Vasari and TEC both have better rush capabilities, there's a good chance you'll be the one on the defensive...this means you can keep carriers/defense vessels a planet behind your frontline world and jump them in after your opponent foolishly rushes you with massed LRMs or kanraks...doesn't always work (especially against double skirantra rushes) but about your only good card early on as advent fighters/disciples/defense vessels are the best ships in their class...

Some other considerations...rushing destras can be a live saver...it is expensive and risky, but may be your only way to fight massed LRF fleets....if you are a frontliner and are fortunate to have 2 asteroids by your hw, seriously consider not building any civ labs and go straight to 3/5 mil labs for illums/destras....

Another strategy is to build a large amount of scouts (like, 10-15) and try and wipe out your enemies construction frigates...risky, and only effective if you are a frontliner, but can work in some cases...also, those scouts are useful for colonization as they can take out militia siege frigates really well...and, in a pinch they ain't too bad against LRFs...

Hardest thing to do as advent is to have 2 vasari players rushing you when you get the suicide spot.  I seem to attract this suicide spot regularly, so i've had quite a bit of experience. 

The first capital ship you should build is a progenitor mothership.  Thats right, against 2 competent TEC/vasari players you will have NO chance at saving your homeworld against help (against TEC players the outcome is still less certain, but still favors the TEC).  You should run that progenitor to somewhere safe, usually in the middle of the map near your allies.

You should starbase up immediately and don't even colonize your first asteroid as the costs won't be worth it considering how quickly you will be overrun.  You will need to buy a logistics upgrade on your HW early, as you HAVE to have 3 military labs to survive.

Building a few scouts to kill incoming colonizers is important as well, as you can't be having a vasari starbase built too early in your HW.  Disciple and scout spam as well as build some defense vessels once your starbase is up.  This will be your mainstay fleet.  Once a vasari starbase is built in your HW you have a set amount of time before you will guarenteed lose that planet.

Repair structures are absolutely vital to get up early.

Tracking enemy movements with scouts and NOT losing them is vital to this strategy.

This strategy varies on the type of enemy capital ships you will face.  In the end you can always buy yourself a ton of time with this strategy.  I usually have my homeworld moved by the time my old HW is bombed out, and the enemy has two fleets deep in their territory, and they start spending time going economy and moving their fleets.

By the time they reach the front lines they will usually have a small fleet and not be able to assist their allies much.  This depends upon the player, either way it is important to give your allies a heads up in chat when the enemy moves their fleets out of your bombed homeworld so that they can prepare for enemy reinforcements.

This can win a game for people, the longer you can successfully tie down 2 players rushing you the greater the chance your team can win.

Also, never get too stuck in the defensive mindset.  Keep them scouted at all times.  Your enemy will try to fool you into thinking you will be doubled and then only send one enemy fleet while the other either goes eco or fights on another front.  If they do this don't starbase your HW, instead play defensively on one front and send in whatever fleet you can to attack the enemy player.  Its really fun when you not only stop the fleet the enemy was supposed to take you out with, you also to kill the other enemy HW with a surprise planet bomber regiment when his fleet is far away from home!

In general, an excellent summary for Advent suicide strategy!

The only thing I may consider doing myself is going for a 2nd cap (a Halcyon) after the prog instead of more frigates...granted it depends on the situation, and a 2nd cap is not as cheap or resource efficient but a Halcyon will do you a lot of good against a Sova/Skirantra rush especially if you got the repair bays/SB to back it up...

I generally think Halcyon is a better choice than prog on 4v4s and 5v5s...however, I do agree that for suicide getting a colonizing cap somewhere safe is a far better choice than any other 1st capital ship...

Yes I agree with you Seleuceia on all your points. 

My one problem with this strategy is that it is so limiting, an advent player can only just barely pull it off successfully with a little bit of luck. 

Assuming that the enemy is the "average" distance away in multiplayer. 

If your enemy is one or two jumps away you have to pack your bags and evacuate ASAP or else you will lose very quickly. 

I believe that this lack of options could be circumvented by adding more depth to planets, and allowing players to develop their planets more then they can currently, albeit at a very great expense.  I suggest this over a rebalance because the developers enjoy advent having a major economic disadvantage in the early game and refuse to reduce costs even slightly.

 Advent successfully fight a war of attrition with seekers and disciples, but I find this style of play quite boring, and as such I have stopped playing advent for the time being until the developers rebalance the advent economy.  By advent economy I do not mean editing the standard "rate of gain".  I mean that the developers need to edit the "cost of units" to reflect the recent changes in the game. 

As it stands TEC and Vasari LRM's are the most efficient per credit/firepower to achieve critical mass to threaten a capital ship in the game.  The Illuminator's cost was increased and its ability to focus fire was halved. 

Currently, the advent cost so much to achieve a critical dps to threaten capital ships that they are easily out competed by the other two races.

The per ship cost of the illuminator should be reduced to allow the advent to reach a critical mass of dps sooner then it already is. 

This should be balanced so that they can achieve critical mass at around the vasari cost per Dps.  The TEC should retain its advantage in this aspect of gameplay.

I do like how the developers went with the illuminator nerf in that they were attempting to make the game less reliant on lrms.  The problem is that they singled out the advent and failed to address all lrms in general.  They "over-nerfed".

I fully support the increased defensive ability of all fighters in the game across the board.  Or, the developers could just increase the cost of all anti-strike craft frigates, and give them a special ability to make them more interesting.

Either way, there are plenty of options, and failure to even acknowledge the disparity only further frustrates the player base. 

The apparent nerf to Illums was a result of a bug fix with beam weapons - the bug let them do something like triple the damage that was displayed (so ballpark 18*3=54 average damage, exaggerated further with beam research).

I am glad they fixed the illum bug...unfortunately, it is a huge gimp to Advent's early game...illuminators are clearly the worst LRF (especially late game) and are the hardest to get (tier 3)...my issue, though, is not that illuminators suck, but that LRFs are so powerful and important that a factions military potential rests too heavily on one ship...

Advent have best fighters, flak, and LFs...they also have 2nd best HCs and bombers, best defenses (at least late game) and a great line of cap abilities for the late game...yet they have the worst start because one ship sucks?  That ain't right...

So your telling me hanger defense (6000 hull points)   with (9-12 squads) with bombers plus, halcyon (strikers) and disciples ain't enough defend my first planet while i role out disciples quickly with 2 frigate factories? all u need is 1 hostility temple to get hangers. would think they r meant that to be a primary saver.. coupled with 3 beam platforms and still I'm gonna get hammered on my first planet? Whats the bloody point then? I would think 9-16 squads with disciples capturing other planets and colonizers to assist is what the developers intended. someone try this strategy cos otherwise this faction is broken, very if all u have to do is pack your bags and run. Honestly they way they talk about the advent in the game's story is there terrifying to face in battle. The only technique i have realized is early game advantage is to spam disciples with 2 frigate factories and keep rolling them out while they die. with the hangers to provide air support wont rushers just give up and call it quits? I can get 30 disciples very quickly like producing 15 units with 2 factories. Besides the hostility temple allows me to boost shields, armor and disciple firepower. Wow all this and no luck.. broken faction indeed. Think they never tested the game with skilled multi-players out there.

Well, first of all, your not a skilled multiplayer person... your building hangers and point defence... no mention of repair bays...  >_<  totally backwards there.

Also, if your getting all 3 of those lv1 techs.... i dont know what your fleet size is, but unless you have ~25 disciples, its more effective to build more disciples than to do reasearch.  (or hitting up against a fleet supply limit)

And, you prolly shouldnt really be building disciples, while they are the best LF in the game, every other faction is going to be bringing in their counter as their first unit.  The advent scouts, which are by FAR the best scouts in the game, both counter LRMs and seige frigs (making clearing militia rather easy, actually), would make a much better initial investment.  (just make sure to turn on autoattack, which can be an annoyance.)  Scouts, or a scout-LF mix, varing on what the enemy is doing, will hopefully allow you to get to 3 labs and bring out some decent units.

Not long ago a fleet of 50-50 scouts and lfs and a haylcon were a practicly unbeatable combination.  Advent players wouldnt even build military labs, and just do some serious rapage.

In any case, If your in the suiside spot, your not going to fragging do anything helpfull with ANY race.  so, dont say "advent cant defend itself when doubled" because... its 2v1... you shouldnt be able to win... with any race. 

I'm going to take a gamble here and say that they never really thought MP would be the dominant part of their audience...

Well you SHOULD be able to win if doubled, but it should be difficult and depend largely upon luck, skill level difference, and the enemy's ability to coordinate. The effectiveness of the advent's ability to prevent being rushed vs. the effectiveness of the vasari and Tec is a large gap.  You have less to work with as advent, and this is a substantial weakness.  They both have so many effective options that the advent are left behind in the dust.

Also, suicide spots when played correctly can and have won games, for the reasons I stated in my primary post.  I was able to once destroy both my attackers, who were competent players. They must have both been having an off day

Never played multiplayer at all so havent had the chance to get my ass wooped so i can change stupid strategies to more effective ones. Ofc by now thanks 2 u i know what will not work and what might.

So advent scouts and disciples and a cap carrier.. keep the info coming plz?

I want to master the advent.. the only way to do this is multi-player. Care to explain how scouts counter LRMs? Havent got the game with me currently to try.

Scouts counter LRF by virtue of their damage type: anti-light. Ships with anti-light weapons (namely fighters, colony frigates, and scouts) do 200% damage to LRF. On the other hand, LRF are anti-medium and do 100% damage to Scouts, which is preferable to the 150% damage light frigates would take.

The main issue is getting enough scouts built - they are individually weak, even with the 200% bonus working for them.

Thanks, didn't know this at all.. What if you go for 2 frigate factories early on? Wise? Notice i can crank out units pretty darn fast

When it comes to building units, you have two limiting factors...

1)  Resources

2) Construction Time

Early on, your limiting factor is more likely to be resources than the construction time...which means that adding a 2nd frigate factor won't really help you build units any faster (since you won't have the resources to)...

It is generally only worth building a 2nd frigate factory when you are a frontliner in a large 4v4 or 5v5 game and you are being fed resources...otherwise, building that factory is a waste of resources and a logistic slot....

Be wary of using scouts to counter LRFs...the only faction that really should do this is Advent, and scout fleets are exceptionally easy to destroy...

In general, a good player will be aware of what units you are amassing, and if he sees you got a ton of scouts then he'll just build LFs and/or flak (basically, anything but LRFs)...scout counters generally are signs of desperation or an enemy's poor fleet composition choices...

The greatest use of scouts' anti-light weaponry is for taking down siege frigates at planets you are trying to colonize...everything else is a big gamble...

easier said than done .  Advent are the most difficult race to play.  TEC are the easiest, and the vasari are easy to play to be moderately effective, and are a little more difficult to learn to use all their synergies to the max.  You get good at sins multiplayer by accepting that your pride is going to get damaged during your learning curve.  Your goal should be to make that learning curve as short as possible .

Just to note: "most dificult to play" does not mean "weakest".

You see, with tec, and to some extent vasari, you can often leave your support cruisers on autocast.

thats a great way to make your advent fleet useless.

Dominas in theory are better than hoshikos, but they are STUPID DUMB, and you have to micro them to see that effectiveness.  Guardians are slighly less dumb, but still stupid. And setting your capital ships on autocast is also a great way to get them to waste AM.

But a maxxed out advent fleet will have both unrivialed killing, and not-dieing power.

Oh i totally agree with you pbhead, I've written before how guardians when they come out of the factory need to have auto attack set to OFF and autocast on everything set to OFF.  Resetting these causes me to lose precious fleet control time, and if you don't reset them then your guardians just become useless...

I don't build dominas, as they increase the micro level so much that your fleet overall (microing the tons of fighters, plus the tons of guardians, attack priorities, capital ship abilities) starts to become unmanagable.

I would say that overall the advent suffer from a lack of options, and therefore are the weaker race.  They may be difficult to learn, but even once learned you have far fewer tricks than the tec or the vasari in the early game (and most important phase of the game).

. I can't loose hope. im sure rebellion will have a faction withing the advent that's pawnage. i Hope

Hehe, once advent get a few more early game options i'm going back to them.  They are very fun to play in the endgame, its getting a competent fleet relative to your enemies that is a big problem.

Considering that Advent have the best LF, flak, and fighter (3 of the 4 early game units), simply making LRFs not so dominant would be enough to help the Advent early game...