PC vs Mac » Forum Post by Sinperium

Pbhead

Join Date 12/2008

+77

....

Can i just shoot you now?

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Sinperium

Join Date 02/2010

+219

Let the flames begin!

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Good article... it show that Mac users are stupid people who believe that they are superior to PC users when in fact, a MAC is nothing more that a PC !!!

Seem that author of the article and these who have make the study don't know what PC mean... Personal Computer !!! same the good old Apple II was a personal computer... and as today, all MAC have a similar hardware that what people call a PC... in fact, my PC workstation ( between desktop and server ) is based on the spec of the Mac Pro... supermicro motherboard, 2 Xeon quad core, 8x 1TB harddrive ( MAC was limited to 4 ), 16 gb ram, etc... in fact, using my brain, and building myself my rig have allow me to spare 10000$ on the Apple price...

The reality is a war between OS... MAC OS against Windows OS... well, the today MAC OS is based on freeBSB who is a unix/linux distro, Safari is based on Mozilla, etc... MAC OS is only a flavor of unix/linux between numerous other...

These "PC vs MAC" is not existing since MAC are PC... so, i think that people who believe that there is a "PC vs MAC" are stupid people who know nothing about computer... and the people bitching that their OS is better that a other one are more stupid... guy with brain will install a boot loader and various OS... using the OS who is the best for the needed task... i use Open Solaris, Linux, and Windows... and if i feel the need, i can install the MAC OS too since my hardware is similar to these found in a MAC Pro...

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Sinperium

Join Date 02/2010

+219

Exactly! All that's important to understand is that Microsoft and Apple are equally evil.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

Quoting Sinperium,

reply 4

Exactly! All that's important to understand is that Microsoft and Apple are equally evil.

Wrong. Agent Smith said it best when he suggested that we humans are in fact the virus. All humans.

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Sinperium

Join Date 02/2010

+219

So Microsoft and Apple are representations of humans since they emulate virus-like behavior so naturally already.

Of course, Apple doesn't have viruses--they call it "iTunes".

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

Quoting Sinperium,

reply 6

So Microsoft and Apple are representations of humans since they emulate virus-like behavior so naturally already.

Of course, Apple doesn't have viruses--they call it "iTunes".

Don't kid yourself. It is in fact thanks to large corporations like MS and Apple that IT is where it's at today. You think those hippy-loving GNU programmers would have given you the tech you enjoy today?

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Apple is GREAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct1_r_61sk8

I like very much the "iShootgun"

+1

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Sinperium

Join Date 02/2010

+219

I actually am glad they got the ball rolling--but I am also glad for the open source rebels and their kin who kept them from destroying the pleasure of what they opened up.

Anyone else remember way back when Microsoft actually planned to SELL their browser?

The fact is, the size of the companies let's them have a huge sway in the market--as they go, so go the others--and right now the market "sway" is to leverage things like drm and cloud computing into a way to lease you everything you use instead of letting you own it.

The ultimate goal is to be just like the cable companies and charge a fee for every service and require a bundle or contract for the "best deals".

Darn Thoumsin, I just got the original iPad--now I have to upgrade.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

I might as well quote myself from another thread as this is my response here as well.......

The "internet-model" or rather the connected world as an economy/society unto itself has been begging to be run as a for-license/fee model for a long time now. The archaic ideals of a society/economy that works on services or products that are "owned" by the consumer is out-dated and old-fashioned. License and user fees, cloud life/economics are where the future lies. Embrace the brave new world folks........or move over to the sidelines and let the freight-train called "THE FUTURE" pass! Of course you could always opt to try to stand in its way and stop it......

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Sinperium

Join Date 02/2010

+219

I'm quoting me too now...

Quoting Sinperium,

reply 36

Quoting the_Monk, reply 34
The archaic ideals of a society/economy that works on services or products that are "owned" by the consumer is out-dated and old-fashioned. Embrace the brave new world folks

I'm guessing you live somewhere in the Russian Federation and this seems normal to you.

Here's the problem--the companies still own the services. This isn't a free-flow/barter system of world peace and joy, this is the "haves" wringing every penny (or ruble) they can get out of every pocket by denying ownership to anyone else.

Of course it's a corporate marketer's dream to own the needs of every human on the planet. It's not a good thing.

I have no problem paying a premium for quality, I have a problem when corporations invent a "need" (the corporately owned and regulated cloud) and then insure that all new hardware and software can only be found on it.

You hug that ugly sister all you want.

I'm mailing your, "I trust big corporations to do what's best for me" bumper sticker to you now.

Izvini to my Rooski droogs out there

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Quoting Sinperium,

reply 9

...but I am also glad for the open source rebels
...

into a way to lease you everything you use instead of letting you own it.
...
charge a fee for every service

...

Well, i am a open source guy and i can certify that almost all money generated by the open source world is based on service...

You don't own Linux, you don't lease it... you only pay for service... linux server version can be more expensive that a windows one... main difference is in the service, mainly the support...for desktop version, if you buy it in store, you pay for the box, the dvd, the manual, and the 30-90 day "light" support... not for the software...

In fact, it is not bad for the customer... best to pay for a long term support that for something that you will own and who can break after a few months...

The real problem is not about lease or service but more about how some company charge fee for nothing... promise a lot of thing and don't deliver... let take for example the gaming industry... lately, released game are mainly unfinished work filled with bugs... you pay 60 or more for own something who is defect... with the hope that it will be fixed at a later time... best to pay 10$ month being sure that the product is working, with a honest license where the gaming industry will not exclude the fact that they need to deliver a working product...

About Microsoft selling their browser, why not !!! If their browser was fast, bug free, not a open door for spyware, trojan or virus, why not pay for something good!!! Best to pay a little for something good that having free sh!t ...

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The archaic ideals of a society/economy that works on services or products that are "owned" by the consumer is out-dated and old-fashioned.

You know, that's about on the same lines as saying "The archaic ideals of a society/economy that works on intellectual property that are "owned" by the producer is out-dated and old-fashioned".

For some reason, it's wrong and immoral to suggest that the privileges granted to producers in the tenets of copyright are outdated, but it's perfectly okay to suggest the privileges granted to consumers are outdated? I see this as a dangerous double-standard that threatens to swing a great deal of the consumer/producer balance in the favour of rightsholders.

The fundamental purpose of copyright is to promote innovation and the creation of new products. When copyright law is too weak, there is no incentive to create. When it is too strong, it can choke out competing innovation. Good copyright policy is about striking balance. I believe the power grab by rightsholders that we're seeing right now is just as harmful to society as the flagrant disregard for copyright that we see in internet piracy.

Anyways, as to the topic of the original article, it's all about how you interpret it. The article is written from the interpretation that PC users tend to be older and less tech savvy. However, we could easily invert this and interpret it as older and less tech savvy individuals tend to use PC's, which very few people would disagree with as a generalization.

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Quoting Darvin3,

reply 13

Anyways, as to the topic of the original article, it's all about how you interpret it. The article is written from the interpretation that PC users tend to be older and less tech savvy. However, we could easily invert this and interpret it as older and less tech savvy individuals tend to use PC's, which very few people would disagree with as a generalization.

I am not too sure I can completely agree with this. As a PC person and a person that loves to learn how technology works, I would have to say that a PC user tends to be more intelligent in some cases as owning a "PC" is kinda like owning an old car with no warrantee, you are forced to learn how the engine works in order to maintain the car running making you more knowledgeable about cars than those who simply take it to a mechanic and have the warrantee cover the cost.

By the same token, MAC users tend to like the MAC because of it's stability, it's current lack of viruses and a candy-like interface that is designed more for people to struggle less to get around the computer. There is also the software involved. I have noticed when it comes to MACs, software suggestions tend to be repetitive, normally suggestioning the same software for the same need as oppose to PCs which seem to have what seems like unlimited alternatives for a single need. Not that MAcs don't have alternatives, they just don't always get suggested from what I have seen.

Ironically having problems with computers tends to force some people to learn how to fix them and therefor learn more about how the hardware works. I know this because I tend to be the PC repair guy for family, friends and coworkers and I have noticed that although not very tech savvy, they do learn about how PCs work little by little. Eventually some don't even call me for the most basic of needs. Of course this is just my own opinion.

As for the article I can't help but feeling a bit insulted. Although the results do not apply to every PC or MAC user, people tend to take information like this to describe everyone who's a PC or MAC user even when it's obvious not everyone who is a MAC user is "more educated".

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Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 3

Good article... it show that Mac users are stupid people who believe that they are superior to PC users when in fact, a MAC is nothing more that a PC !!!

Not quite. What is does show is that Macs are a status symbol among some. In other words, smarter, richer (or even more liberal - like Rush Limbaugh???) people are trying to set themselves apart, so they use Macs.

OTOH, it could mean you have to be smarter to use a Mac (which kills the idea that they are easier to use). We know you have to be richer (since they cost more).

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

Charles,

Not quite. I know plenty of developers who have MACs. That "candy-like interface" you talk about might be made for the casual home user where let's face it......it should be. The casual home-user should not have to try to remember which of the 10 ways to do something on a PC is the way he/she was shown by the neighbourhood PC-clown. Those developers I was talking about use the command-line on a MAC just as much as they would if they were using a PC.

Secondly, those basic "problems" a PC user might be forced to learn how to fix were usually created by the USER or by the user doing something the wrong way in the first place so its more about the PC user learning what NOT to use the PC for than actually learning about the PC. I don't know a single PC user whom I've had to help over the many years I've been eating, sleeping and breathing IT who as ever learned much more (sure installing a video card and driver or reformatting an OS does happen but that's no more knowledge than many MAC users have) than simply trying to remember what to AVOID doing with their PCs.

If it was so common that PC-folks were in fact *learning* about their PCs then I wouldn't keep having to explain "least-priviledge" use of one including the use and modification of the built-in local security policies as much much much more benefitial than running stupid third-party security programs that often just give the PC-folks a false sense of security. Following the leader of the pack and installing/running programs isn't *learning* anything more than the usual MAC-crowd. In my opinion there are plenty of PC power-users out there just as there are plenty of MAC power-users out there. The "sheep" in either camp.......well they're just sheep and neither sheep is any smarter or "learned" than the other.

the Monk

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 16

Not quite. I know plenty of developers who have MACs. That "candy-like interface" you talk about might be made for the casual home user where let's face it......it should be. The casual home-user should not have to try to remember which of the 10 ways to do something on a PC is the way he/she was shown by the neighbourhood PC-clown. Those developers I was talking about use the command-line on a MAC just as much as they would if they were using a PC.

I'm of the belief that one should learn not only how to use a device but how it also works. These days people are handed everything with an "easy button" design where they will alway be dependant on someone else to fix their problems. Mac users are no different than PC users when it comes to learning or not learning how to avoid or fix something on a PC or Mac. I have to agree with DrGuy on this one, seems more like a status thing that actually being more educated.

Quoting the_Monk,

reply 16

Secondly, those basic "problems" a PC user might be forced to learn how to fix were usually created by the USER or by the user doing something the wrong way in the first place so its more about the PC user learning what NOT to use the PC for than actually learning about the PC. I don't know a single PC user whom I've had to help over the many years I've been eating, sleeping and breathing IT who as ever learned much more (sure installing a video card and driver or reformatting an OS does happen but that's no more knowledge than many MAC users have) than simply trying to remember what to AVOID doing with their PCs.

By the same token so are the problems found in Macs (few but still exist), especially considering they are suppose to be more stable. I have friends with Macs and they are hardly computer wizards. They just think they got a computer that never gets viruses, just goes to show how ignorant a Mac user can be as well. I find it hard to believe you would say you don't know a single person who ever learned anything while getting assistance from you. I find that to be rather generalistic (if there is such a word), basically you stating that many PC users are just to stupid to learn.

But hey, we have difference of opinions. No biggie.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

Quoting CharlesCS,

reply 17

I'm of the belief that one should learn not only how to use a device but how it also works. These days people are handed everything with an "easy button" design where they will alway be dependant on someone else to fix their problems. Mac users are no different than PC users when it comes to learning or not learning how to avoid or fix something on a PC or Mac. I have to agree with DrGuy on this one, seems more like a status thing that actually being more educated.

Again. Learning what NOT to do or how to fix problems (usually user-created in the first place) is rather far removed from even basic understanding of hardware and how software interacts with/controls same. Your point initally (maybe you're changing that now) was that being forced to "fix" issues makes one learn about the device. Part of my point was that that is entirely pointless if the problems were unnecessarily created by the user in the first place.

Quoting CharlesCS,

reply 17

By the same token so are the problems found in Macs (few but still exist), especially considering they are suppose to be more stable. I have friends with Macs and they are hardly computer wizards. They just think they got a computer that never gets viruses, just goes to show how ignorant a Mac user can be as well. I find it hard to believe you would say you don't know a single person who ever learned anything while getting assistance from you. I find that to be rather generalistic (if there is such a word), basically you stating that many PC users are just to stupid to learn.

But hey, we have difference of opinions. No biggie.

Didn't say that no one ever learned anything at all. Please refer to the first highlighted section below. Second I never claimed one or the other camp more intelligent than the other. Please refer to the second highlighted section below.

Quoting the_Monk,

reply 16

Not quite. I know plenty of developers who have MACs. That "candy-like interface" you talk about might be made for the casual home user where let's face it......it should be. The casual home-user should not have to try to remember which of the 10 ways to do something on a PC is the way he/she was shown by the neighbourhood PC-clown. Those developers I was talking about use the command-line on a MAC just as much as they would if they were using a PC.

Secondly, those basic "problems" a PC user might be forced to learn how to fix were usually created by the USER or by the user doing something the wrong way in the first place so its more about the PC user learning what NOT to use the PC for than actually learning about the PC. I don't know a single PC user whom I've had to help over the many years I've been eating, sleeping and breathing IT who as ever learned much more (sure installing a video card and driver or reformatting an OS does happen but that's no more knowledge than many MAC users have) than simply trying to remember what to AVOID doing with their PCs.

If it was so common that PC-folks were in fact *learning* about their PCs then I wouldn't keep having to explain "least-priviledge" use of one including the use and modification of the built-in local security policies as much much much more benefitial than running stupid third-party security programs that often just give the PC-folks a false sense of security. Following the leader of the pack and installing/running programs isn't *learning* anything more than the usual MAC-crowd. In my opinion there are plenty of PC power-users out there just as there are plenty of MAC power-users out there. The "sheep" in either camp.......well they're just sheep and neither sheep is any smarter or "learned" than the other.

the Monk

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

That article that is linked in the OP sure crams in a lot of convenient statistics. I would have hated to see the writer's face if those numbers didn't happen to match up with the article he was writing.

Having these different platforms allows for some healthy competition. It allows end users to have some choice. Making generalisations about those end users based on the platform they use doesn't really help those end users to understand or appreciate their platform.

Oddly enough, helping the end users is usually helpful. It's nice when someone knows a trick or two that you don't and can teach you to get more productivity out of your computer, and that you're not dumb you just need more training.

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TobiWahn_Kenobi

Join Date 08/2008

+83

Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 3

it show that Mac users are stupid people

Thanks Thoumsin, and I thought you were a nice guy. [e digicons]:'([/e]

I'm a Mac and a Windows (not PC) user, and I like both for what they can do. Can this stupid hatred for tool die?

I mean, nobody argues which kind of power drill you are using....

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Sinperium

Join Date 02/2010

+219

Here's my experience about working on and not having to work on...With a PC you can fudge and tweak and modify to get anything to work. With a Mac, they tell you what you can use and that's all you can have (kudos to jail breakers). I'm typing this on the virtual keyboard on my iPad. I sure could use a "delete" button sometimes when I make a typo...but wait--Apple tells me that my backspace IS a delete key and therefore I shouldn't need one and thus can't possibly expect it as an option. Yeah.

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Quoting TobiWahn_Kenobi,

reply 20

I mean, nobody argues which kind of power drill you are using....

You must not know anyone who likes using tools. As a man of the trades, I can assure you, there is much more debate and argument over this then anyone can possibly make for PC/Windows vs Mac. Every single job site where more then one person is assigned to a task, this debate pops up.

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 16

Not quite. I know plenty of developers who have MACs.

One is an active contributor on this site - Leauki. And he develops for Microsoft!

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Quoting TobiWahn_Kenobi,

reply 20

Thanks Thoumsin, and I thought you were a nice guy.

I'm a Mac and a Windows (not PC) user, and I like both for what they can do. Can this stupid hatred for tool die?

Well, i am a nice guy... my comment was for people who don't understand that a MAC is usually a personal computer ( PC )...

And if i good remember, your MAC is similar to my work station, just a little more new... Your are not a PC user buta workstation user... the step between PC and Server computer...

I mean, nobody argues which kind of power drill you are using....

As a man of the trades, I can assure you, there is much more debate and argument over this then anyone can possibly make for PC/Windows vs Mac.

As a man using tools, i can say that the argument are not like in the case of "MAC vs PC"...

By example, i will not begin a argument in the style of "kubota lawn mower tractor VS lawn mower tractor"... but more about one brand against a other brand... PC is a generic term, like a family name... MAC are from the PC family and so MAC are PC...

In fact, it is not about "MAC vs PC" but about "MAC OS vs Windows OS"... like a argument between a 2 identical car having different paint... as today, OS are very similar, main difference is the GUI level... the paint level...

In some case, the OS itself is identical but only the GUI is different... i remember various stupid linux argument between KDE GUI or the Gnome GUI...

Again, it is all about personal taste... usually, no one is better that the other... simply people who try to impose their personal taste as being the right one...

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Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 24

As a man using tools, i can say that the argument are not like in the case of "MAC vs PC"...

Wasn't disputing that nor was I describing that type of situation. I said PC/Windows vs Mac for a reason. PC and Windows are used synonymously when describing an IBM (compatible) PC using Windows as opposed to an Apple which uses Mac. Don't add your own spin to my point please. ;]

Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 24

By example, i will not begin a argument in the style of "kubota lawn mower tractor VS lawn mower tractor"...

You as well must not know anyone who likes tools because they would never have an argument like that, nor is it even possible. If you're a fan of tools, then you already know this and trying to make me look foolish was a waste of your time and an insult to both of our intelligences. One person will see the tools another brought and comment how theirs are better. When that opinion is challenged, details are then brought up to support the opinion. Every time I've ever been on a job site, someone has Dewalt, someone has Ryobi, someone has Black & Decker, someone has Cobalt, someone has Craftsman, someone has Makita, someone has Milwaukee... No one has ever in the history of tools compared cordless drills to sanders, or spoken about a tool type generically when trying to convince another person about who has the better tools. It's always always always always about brand and the specifications of said tool, and sometimes even what tasks have been accomplished by said tool...

Again, as I said before, every single job site where more then one person is assigned to a task, this debate pops up. Its a far far far more prevalent debate then the PC/Windows vs Mac debate. So Tobi's point about no one arguing about which kind of power drill you are using, has been corrected, which was all I was correcting about this debate.

Edit: Forgot this: Thank you and have a nice day. =P

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