Anyone ever successfully killed neutral siege frigates via turrets on a PLANET?

I can think of two ways ATM:

1) Send the fighter squadron you built for your colony cap to kill the siege frigates. This will probably work pretty well, especially if you have the cap focus on the flak frigates.

2) Use the capital to kill the siege frigates. Once said siege frigates are blown up for delicious experience for your capital ship, you can colonize the planet and mop-up later as your economy improves.

But that requires Cap backup: I'm talking about the situation "if you only send a colony ship and no backup".

(though, you could be lucky enough to have the optimal Cap's target be right on the other side of the current planet, in which case it could kill the siege while passing through while only losing a few seconds)

I was under the impression that you meant "colonizer capital ship", and not the frigate type.

Though if you plan to do a "flyby" of a planet to kill the siege frigates, then go for a carrier; the larger number of fighters it can deploy means that the siege frigs will be killed faster, and the larger numbers will be able to better weather flak frigates. You'll also need to phase jump, and then que orders to move to the appropriate phase lane and then phase jump, otherwise the strikecraft will remain docked, IIRC.

It would be hard to do for reason that militia would kill constructor until he has chance to build those turrets.

What you could do is to send 1 scout make it circle then send colony colonize and build turrets as siege cruiser is moving to bomb. With 1 siege from militia it would definitely work. With 2 siege it would depend where constructor spawns relative to siege cruisers and if siege cruiser split when moving to better bombing position. With 3 or more siege its impossible.

I'm assuming faster game speed, which is what most MP games seem to be on.

The problem is that the siege always seems to move out of the way of the turret to continue bombing from a safe place... so to successfully defend the planet I'd need like 4 turrets, which is too expensive.

incorrect, the seige frig does not move far enough to escape being under attack from the turret.  It is infact the fact that the seige frig does move is actually the thing that makes this possible.

I have tried multiple times, placing the turret directly between the siege and the planet, as close to the planet as possible to maximize radius range, and each time the siege has moved out of range. Even when I place the turret in the direction I know the siege is going to move in, it gets out of range after maybe getting shot once or twice.

Note that I'm talking about a planet, not an asteroid.

Maybe you could do it using Greg's scout trick, but for anything other than a lightly defended (4 ships) ice or volcano why would you want to?  Killing militia ships are a safe way to level up your cap.

ohh, it does not work for planets, only asteroids.

I tried that, the siege frigates coming towards the planet still maneuvered away from the turret while it was being built, until they were out of range but could still bomb the planet.

Mainly for the sake of allowing the cap to be advancing straight towards the enemy, while my other ships can focus on colonization. The fewer demands on the capital, the more it can harass the enemy (or allow colonization/fortification at front-line planets quicker). If I can achieve that while also colonizing (with as few ships as possible, sending the rest with the cap to fight), so much the better.

To be successful with a planet you do need multiple turrets.

Thats why people tend to kill siege with ships or they would all use scout and turret strategy. 

I suspect the comment mentioned by the original poster was mine.  It is possible to do this on full-sized planets, but you'll need multiple turrets, patience, and a bit of luck if there's more than one siege frigate.  Just not reliable or efficient enough.  Use a small force of scouts to knock out the siege frigates, then colonize and put up the turret.

On full-sized planets, the siege frigate will move sufficiently far away.  If you're determined to use turrets, what you want to do is corral the siege frigate by placing the second turret in such a way as to make it reposition back into range of the first turret.  Because the siege frigate repositions when the turret starts construction, you can just order the constructor to move away then scuttle the constructing turret once the SF has moved.

Warning: long, complicated walls of text.

Assuming there's only one siege frigate:

From my tests, the siege frigate seems to always go clockwise or counterclockwise around the planet, if there is a spot where it will be able to bomb safely (if all turrets under construction are completed). It keeps going in that direction until it finds safety or until the entire planet radius is covered with under-construction turrets, at which point it may continue for a bit and then stop to bomb despite the danger.

Given the size of a planet, it looks like one would have to start construction on 4 turrets to ensure the siege frigate will stop and give up and bomb the planet from its current location; only when the siege frigate is destroyed does it seem safe to cancel the other turrets (otherwise the siege frigate'll start moving again to a safe zone).

The other local militia will also attack the first structure construction is started on as soon as the colony ship leaves. Given the range of turrets (I'm using TEC for these tests), if the local LF/flak are firing on one turret, they'll be out of range of the other turrets: since you can't scrap that first turret until the siege frigate is destroyed, the first turret will be destroyed first unless it's ~75% constructed or more (results from testing on Faster speed with 2 LF, 2 flak). (Does cancelling unfinished but damaged structures give you back only part of what you invested?)

I thought of using the colony ship as bait and have it continuously warp in and out of the gravity well, drawing the attention of the militia, keeping the first unfinished turret mostly undamaged, but it seems the militia ignore incoming colony ships if the planet is already colonized.

So a significant chunk of time needs to be spent on partially building the first turret if it is to survive (long enough for it to be cancelled, that is). I thought that if I could figure out how to "corral the siege frigate by placing the second turret in such a way as to make it reposition back into range of the first turret" it would be easiest just to finish the first turret and then force the siege frigate back into its range, but that doesn't seem possible: the siege frigate will first maneuver out of the 1st turret's range, and if a second turret starts being constructed there, will keep moving clockwise or counterclockwise... etc., until you've started construction on 3 turrets, covering 3/4ths of the planet radius, with the siege frigate in the other fourth. If you then start construction to threaten that last area, the siege frigate will simply stop and bomb from there. So, there seems no way to goad a siege frigate back into the range of a turret, unless there's some tactical possibility I've missed. At that point, your only option to kill the frigate would be to finish the 4th turret, at which point you would have 2 active turrets.

The only way to get this to work while only building 1 turret, so it seems to me, is to

(1) colonize, build a turret close to the siege frigate, wait until construction gets to 75% or so (first turret, covers one quarter of the planet's radius)

(2) have construction frigate start construction on another turret in the direction of the siege frigate (covers second quarter)

(3) as soon as construction is started, do the same thing for the next undefended area (covers third quarter)

(4) as soon as construction is started, do the same thing for the next undefended area (covers fourth quarter)

(5) As soon as the construction starts on the 4th turret, the siege frigate should be in range of the 3rd, where it will soon stop moving and start bombing: tell the construction frigate to finish building the 3rd turret

(6) As soon as the siege frigate is destroyed, cancel all other turrets (the 1st turret should be down to 5% health or so by that time). Colonization finished

The above seems to be the only way of acquiring a planet with only a colony ship, unless you know how to goad the siege frigate back into range of the first turret.

I only see this strategy being viable in the first 3 or so minutes of the game, when the planet in question is connected to the HW, obviously, and:

* you're trying to pull off a double- or triple-colonization start (focusing on initial economy instead of military)

* when the capital ship is occupied fighting another heavy-militia planet

* when the rest of your fleet is busy attacking a planet with 3 siege frigates (putting heavy demand on supply and construction time)

* when you need 2 or 3 LFs for clearing out neutrals elsewhere (putting heavy demand on supply and construction time)

* when the target planet has only 1 siege frigate and no LRMs (else, you'd need scouts, which might as well kill the siege first)

* and when (a) the planet your solo colony ship is targeting has no connecting gravity wells to planets (not asteroids) you'll try to attack in the next few minutes (otherwise, it'd probably be better to wait for the rest of your fleet to wipe out the local militia, so your colony ship can warp in, colonize, and recharge AM in preparation for the next attack). Or (b ), if a connecting gravity well has little or no militia, like an asteroid or one with neutral extractors, a quick-colonize on the first planet and subsequent move to the second well could be good. Or (c), if the planet is a dead end.

Of course, fulfilling all of these conditions (also, your HW would have to have 4 phase connections) would be exceedingly rare, and you would have to have very quick initial scouting to recognize the viability of this strategy before your colony ships are occupied elsewhere. It would also require a lot of MM. (The construction frigates seem to not-unusually get stuck on the structures they're trying to build, holding them up for 15 or 30 seconds, which could be vital)

However, carrying out the strategy could mean 5 or more extra minutes of peak tax income, along with a few more minutes of extractor income. Quite useful for an ice planet... if, of course, your initial focus on colonization and economy doesn't doom you militarily.

Sorry if this is overly detailed, I was trying to systematically explain the process/reasoning to myself while testing.

Straight from start i think that 3 way colonization other than all roids is not a wise decision. You spend to much money and resources just to loose negative income and straight from start you cannot afford 3 planet upgrades with 2 more coming up + 2 labs + vulc or ice colonization research + trade ports research + terran population upgrade research....... Your construction frigates are idle as well while they could be building resource asteroids or especially if you are TEC trade ports.

In my experience with planets that are light defended 2 way colonization can sometimes be faster than making just to get even planet upgrades with resource extractors and 1 trade port.

I never build colony caps (yet), and refuse to build more than 2 colony frigates, so I've never run into much of a problem.

But, even were you to attempt a 3-way, careful use of the black market can help you along significantly - either that, or just to wait 30 or so more seconds before sending the colony ship so you have enough income.

The "negative income" effect you mention shouldn't steal more than about 200 credits for each planet (about 300 for volcano and ice) if you develop quickly. Just with the HW you get that amount in, what, 10 seconds? (Faster speed)

The "terran population upgrade research" surely can wait until your colonization resource squeeze is out of the way first, and I'm very tempted to say the same thing about trade ports: you probably aren't going to build them on your HW (or, if so, probably only 1), so you might as well wait until you actually have your initial planets and their resource extractors (during planet development) before thinking about trade ports. Also, shouldn't you wait until you know you can build a chain of at least 3 or so trade ports before starting them? You don't need them immediately. That said, I don't have quite enough MP experience to say for sure.

I'm also leery about investing in trade ports at all when you're also trying to colonize many planets, including volc or ice: you may have to defend yourself against an early-game rush, and researching/building trade ports on top of all the other development you're doing might be a path to disaster. That said, I have virtually no MP experience.

Not sure what exactly you're saying, but although break-even could occur faster with lightly defended targets like asteroids, the long-term benefit from colonizing earlier is greater with the more heavily defended planets. Population growth takes a long time.

Good eco player at lest in MP will after building akan scuttle capital ship fact and when filled rest of fleet supply (without upgrading it) scuttle frig factory as well. 

Regarding 3 way colonization. 

You mentioned it and I just expressed my opinion.

Lets take int account that you colonize 2 planets at the same time. Which means you are down from 18 cred at start to 12 cred per sec. I do know that until you grab some planets or neutrals you will be buying minerals if you want to get rid of red numbers ASAP especially if you are going 2 ways. With 3 planets you get to a point when you have almost no income -9 cred ps. If my math is approximate enough for 5 planet upgrades (2 normal + 1 asteroid) you need cca 2000 cred + whatever minerals. You will probably buy them on black market. So with 9 cred ps and not enough minerals you will be longer in red numbers than optimal or necessary.

As for Terran planet population upgrade. It does give you 1 cred PS boost to HW income. With time that you are delaying this purchase you are basically loosing that money. I usually purchase it before i do trade port research and as watching reply most skilled players do the same. Trade ports will be build after resource asteroids therefore you have some time to utilize those labs so you 

As for trade ports to wait a bit. All depends on map but in my experience as tec is better to get them up and running asap. Advent utilizes culture before first trade ports go up. Vasari usually waits to get 4-5 planets in a line and build 4-5 trade ports at the same time. Only for reason that vasari has cheap resource extraction boost and cheaper structures and ships research. Vasari is more of resource economy that credit economy. Especially at start.

Out of curiosity, do you play against AI or do you play online multiplayer against real people?  What race(s) do you play and what caps do you build?  The colonizer caps are actually quite useful, especially if you start out in an eco slot (in a team game).

For Advent you'll want a Progenitor at some point since it has shield restore, making it an essential component of an Advent battle ball (combined with Guardians).  The Vasari Evacuator is great for solo-colonizing (alone without any fleet) while the rest of your fleet fights the battles, and if you can get one up to Level 6 (planet suck), look out!  The Akkan probably has the best economic boost but is the least helpful in battle unless it's at Level 6 (Armistice), although the increased firing range ability is useful.  You might also want to build a colonizer cap from a "suicide slot" (in a team game) if you end up being forced to migrate.

At the start of every game I'm always a little conflicted as to whether I want to start out with a carrier or a colonizer.  The economist in me really wants the colonizer, but as a practical matter I have to go with a carrier unless I'm in an eco slot or I start out in a suicide spot and intend to migrate immediately.  I might build a colonizer as a second or third cap depending on the situation.

Colonizer capital ships have their use.

The Advent definitely need a Progenitor Mothership, as DirtySanchezz mentioned, Shield Restore is a key reason, but Resurrection has its use for keep their veteran capital ships in the field if you can get one to Level 6.

The Vasari can substitute a Jarrasul Evacuator with Drain Planet for a Vulkoras Desolator, assuming you can get one to Level 6.

The TEC have a solid economic advantage with an Akkan Battlecruiser, as DirtySanchezz mentioned, it has the best colonization bonus, and Armistice on a Level 6 has its use in battle. Targeting Uplink is nice because Gardas basically get a damage boost against strike craft, Javelis', Ogrovs, and stationary emplacements like an Argonev can use the range when Javelis' and Ogrovs go up against an Argonev and vice versa, and the effects of Vertigo and Chaotic Debris can be counteracted.

I've heard of that, but really don't like the idea of wasting 70 crystal (cap factory costs 100 crystal) and the other resources when I'm going to need a few more capital ships relatively soon anyway.

Your point is well-taken that it costs a lot; that's why it's essential for a good player to look at precisely how much they're going to spend on development and lose on upkeep before they send the colony ship, so they aren't stuck in underdevelopment due to lack of funds.

If a player is meticulous like this, like I said before, they should lose less than 200 credits to underdevelopment (300 if ice or volc). So although "-9 cred ps" or more sounds like a lot, once you know you have enough upfront funds, it doesn't actually hurt you that much.

I used to play against the AI until I found it too simple and boring to beat. I've only played a couple of MP games, though. For this thread assume everything is MP.

TEC for now, though I'll probably be switching to Vasari once I get more familiar with them (especially with how to use their scouts in combat); never Advent. I almost exclusively build carrier caps (for now) but am aware of the potential usefulness of a colony cap; the carrier pays off more later in the game.

Pretty much, though if you're going to build a colonizer, I don't see why you wouldn't build it first.

The egg is significantly more useful as a fighting force than the Akkan, so I'll probably be using it more than I use the Akkan currently.

From my current (very limited) MP knowledge, I was under the impression that battles are rarely fought in range of a starbase (unless it's a Vasari SB), because people are generally smart enough to just evade them. Wouldn't starbase-destroying just be time-consuming mop-up work? Even better if you have bombers, which can strike with impunity unless the starbase also has hangar upgrades.

I don't see the point in self-destructing factories just for economy, doesn't make sense to me. Though, from what I have seen, economy players generally don't build any ships, except what they need to colonize.

I probably have less MP experience than you, but that is what I have been told. You are correct bombers are a better option, almost required for the Advent and the Vasari, but the TEC is much better with the Ogrov. What if Auxiliary Government, or its Advent and Vasari equivalents, Enduring Devotion and Enforced Loyalty are in play, then destroying the starbase becomes more pressing.

After you've built 4 or so capital ships and have frigate factories near your front lines, it's not that bad of an idea to scrap those at your HW, but doing so before then could create very serious difficulties, especially if your opponent decides to rush.

I've played a grand total of 2 MP games (all 1v1), not counting the one against the guy who rushed Novaliths and had no fleet other than a couple of Dunovs, who RQ about an hour into the game.

Egg with nanities is really usefull but akan with armstice can negate effect of Red button on tec star base. Ion bolt is also excelent for sniping out enemy capital ships.

I have played about as many as that, but I am rarely on.

I love Ion Bolt, simple but effective at its job.