I agree.  It's much harder to zoom in and out and to issue orders when your rig is being heavily taxed.

Agreed. I think it could be made a great true siege ship or could be tweaked to stay as the Support/Siege Hybrid. My Ideas for new abilities/tweaked abilities to keep it in its current niche:

Reverie- The only ability that doesn't need tweaking really. Useful for stunning Caps and stopping channeled abilities especially things like Missile Barrage, Drain Planet & Stabilize Phase Space. Also useful for taking out some key support abilities such as Repulsion and Designate Target.

Guidance- Make it Passive with a range of 6500-7500-8500. Target all Friendly Ships & Structures with Abilities and/or Shields. Decreases ability cooldown 10-15-20% and increases Shield Regen 5-10-15%.

Clairvoyance- (It's intended use will never be that useful but I tried): Targets friendly, enemy and unowned planets. Allows the viewing of a distant planet for a brief period of time and reveals production orders at Enemy planets, Frigate Factories, Capital Ship Factories & Starbases (basically you can see anything being built by clicking on the building or planet). (The duration, cooldown & AM cost are all fine I think)

Provoke Hysteria- This doesn't need to much work. I would simply put a minimum damage amount say 1% bombing & pop damage over 40 Seconds with a minimum of 1500 Planet damage & 100 Population killed. This basically guarantees a killing of a Volcanic or any Asteroid. Before people say anything, its not OP-This would put it roughly in line with Drain Planet.

The Above Changes would make Revelation an OK Support/Siege. What I would REALLY prefer, would be to have a true Assault/Siege Cap Ship. Since the description of the ship says it will "channel their wrath and inflict chaos", my ideas for such are as follows:

Chaos Storm: Project Fear and Paranoia over a small area causing enemy vessels to panic and target friend and foe alike.         Targets: Enemy Frigates and Cruisers. Causes 3-6-9 vessels to change targets and attack closest vessel in range whether friend or foe. Duration 10-15-20 seconds. AM Cost- 90-80-70. Cooldown-90-80-70.

Wrathful Aura: Ill will and malice seethes in every vengeful attack on structures and planets causing confusion to the production capabilities of the target. Passive. Targets: Planets & Orbital Structures with build orders. Every shot has a chance to Increase build time on Planetary Improvements & Factory Orders by 15-30-45% for 10-20-30 seconds. Non-Stacking.

Telekinetic Blast: Projects a wave of telekinetic force out of the front of the ship causing damage and throwing frigates and cruisers out of position. Targets: All enemy ships in 20-30-45 degree angle in front of ship within range of 4000-5000-6000. Causes 150-250-350 Damage and throws frigates and cruisers away from the Revelation.

Provoke Hysteria: Same Description. Targets Planets with Population. Causes 1% bombing damage to planet health & population per second for 40 seconds. Minimum Damage 1500 Planet Health & 100 Population.

This would be my Revelation Assault/Siege Cap Ship.

I'd be perfectly fine with those things going on the Revelation.

I actually feel this is one of its better abilities. It can help to monitor enemy movement longer in one area then a scout could, if the enemy planet is heavily guarded by aircraft. Plus your always one step ahead with this ability, you can send this capital ship running around detroying planets, while always monitoring surronding areas in case of a surprise attack.

your ideas sound good those.

Advent scouts have the lingering presence upgrade, which is a much more cost-effective alternative to keeping tabs on a gravity well for a long period of time.  Sacrificing a scout once every few minutes is much less intensive than sinking an entire capital ship to scouting duty...

Clairvoyance isn't terrible, but it really needs a secondary utility.

I think its antimatter costs should be reduced significantly (from 60-80 to something like 30) and for the duration to also be increased significantly (from less than 2 minutes to something more like 3 or 4) so that the Revelation could actually effectively replace scouts. The Revelation should really be more than a 1-trick pony with Reverie.

Not that this would make anyone decent even consider building Revelations any time soon, but...

Perhaps clairivoyance would promote cultural spread from that location?  Idk..  Just an idea...  That way, it actually could be used on your own planets as well. if you are in the thick of battle and you want to make sure you are getting that mitigation boost from culture or something.

Sounds like a plan.

Obviously I don't want this to be on the same scale as a Deliverence Engine, but a little culture from your target planet (the equivalent of1/2/3 culture centers) would be nice.

Had the same thought, which is why I thought it could be helpful to see what people are building.

Its not a terrible ability per say but it seems really underpowered to deserve a place on a Capital Ship. That's my issue with the Revelation, Clairvoyance & Guidance just don't feel like Capital Ship Abilities. Especially when you look at what the Revelation is supposed to be analagous with:

Assault Specialization: At level 3 this effectively increases bombardment damage 57% and increases structure damage exponentially.

Deploy Siege Platform: At level 3 this is the equivalent to spawning a free Karrastra Destructor every 20 seconds to attack planets.

Phase Missile Swarm: At level 3 this does 600 Damage to 7 different targets.

Raze Planet: At level 3 this deals nearly 500 pts of planet health damage and kills 60 population. That population loss kills any asteroid and almost a fully upgraded Volcanic in 1 volley.

Radiation Bomb: At level 3 this deals 350 instant damage and another 84 damage in a small aoe around the target.

Incendiary Shells: At level 3 increases damage from every autocannon/missile shot by 90.

So this is the competition and here is what the Revelation abilities do:

Clairvoyance: At level 3, view a planet for 150 seconds.

Guidance: At level 3, decrease ability cooldown rate by 29% to 1 ship.

Reverie: Level 3, Stun enemy ship for 40 seconds...unless you attack them and then they aren't stunned anymore.

Its not that the abilities suck per say, they just aren't Cap Ship worthy even at their max, Reverie is the only one marginally useful.

500 points of planet damage is only about half of an asteroid, and only a third of the default health of all other planets (1500).

Planets only die from planet damage, not from population loss.

Clairvoyance does need to be buffed (like with a significant addition of Advent culture at the target planet as suggested) and Guidance is almost completely worthless and might be better to be completely replaced. If the Revelation had a good ability other than Reverie (which is excellent IMO) that would go far towards making it a more useful capital ship.

Yeah, after reading it, I thought that was a bit unclear. I merely meant it's enough to cause complete death to the population, not planet destruction necessarily. Your point is entirely correct but the post still serves to show the stark disconnect between the power levels of the respective assault ship abilities.

Whoah... that would actually make this a powerful starting cap since you could shut down enemy colonization.  Get your scouts in early, clairvoyance the chosen planet, no colonization for you!

It's now area of effect, but this doesn't fix the underlying issue.  The big problem with guidance is Advent has very few abilities that benefit from faster cooldowns.  The Advent faction is positively littered with channeling abilities that have longer duration than cooldown.  Under normal circumstances, faster cooldown is completely meaningless.  Both Advent support cruisers use exclusively channeling abilities, which dramatically reduces its utility.  Most Advent capital ships are little better; I'd say that detonate antimatter is the only major candidate for speeding up with guidance.  The top-notch capital ships that make up the bulk of your capital ship force - Progenitor and Halcyon - have virtually no cooldown limitations so this leaves almost no role for Guidance to begin with.  Perhaps your only real candidate is the Illuminator's illusions (now that Guidance is area of effect), which are entirely cooldown-based and can become significant in larger fleet battles.  However, that is a very niche ability.

The best solution would be to rework the Domina in such a way that it gets an excellent synergy from guidance.  Right now guidance only affects a couple unit types, even then the synergy is fairly light.  Every unit added to the Advent fleet that has a synergy with guidance will vastly increase its useability.  I'd say that half the battle with guidance is changing other units to better be able to utilize its bonus.

haha, shows how long its been since I bothered to build one. You make valid points.

So are you saying that would be too good?  But honestly, I hadn't even thought of that.  If you were to get your scouts out early, you could clary any planet your opponent was working on and stop them in their tracks of expansion or force a civ rush to tech up to their own culture centers so that they can continue colonizing.  This means that you have delayed them and forced them to go civ while you continue to expand and go mil instead, ready to pound them later.  I don't know if it is now, but if it isn't, I'd say that this updated version of clary would need to be channeling so it doesn't get too powerful.  Honestly though, this would be a unique way to gain supremacy early.  Now, not only can you go air supremacy with a carrier, combat supremacy with the battleship (I know this is a mediocre option), or go culture supremacy.  Sure, it hinders your direct combat abilities, but it directly hampers the ability of your foes to capture planets.  Regardless, if this were to actually be made, I think this would instantly make the Revelation a useful ship, especially early on.  Sure, it would be a one-trick pony, but that would be one good trick that would give Advent an upper hand early on (and some support later in the game as well).

As for the problem with Guidance..  Is there a way to cause something to deal more healing?  That would help improve the Domina, and I want the Advent to have their synergies back.  I mean, more than anything else with the Advent, I want Malice to be Malice rather than "Dislike," but at least this is one.  Perhaps it should also up the AM regeneration of the target?  I don't know..  Something...

I didn't say it was too good, not at all.  If you were to use this tactic, you'd be forgoing the military edge of the Halcyon and the economic edge of the Progenitor, and that's a huge tradeoff.

This doesn't even work properly since the strike craft far out-damage capital ships, and an enemy using a carrier cap can just kite and stay out of range of detonate antimatter.

I don't believe so.  The best option, IMO, is just to rework the domina completely with non-channeling abilities such that cooldown is its primary limitation.

Clary: So do you think it would need to be channeling to be balanced then?  It sounds like no, but I'm just checking.

Guide: works for me.

Definitely not, unless you were going for some seriously high (like deliverance engine high) culture values.

Edit: Hmmm... actually, if you took away its antimatter cost and cooldown and then made it a channeling ability, then this ability would effectively be a passive (which the revelation needs)... but the Revelation would still need to be immobile while using it, and that's a deal-killer for anything early-game.

It is an interesting though though..  When I get done testing for Zombie, I may just end up trying this sort of thing out in a personal mod.  It sounds quite fun.

But honestly, if the Domina and Revelation would synergize into an awesome repair combo, that would make two useless ships worthwhile (and if they also did the aforementioned culture boost, they would be even more useful).

If a Guidance/Clairvoyance Revelation becomes viable, our work is done.

Here is a possible Domina rework:

The Domina now has two modes.  In regular mode it can move and attack, but cannot use its abilities.  In its special mode, it cannot move or attack but can use its abilities.  There is a 15 second cooldown to switch modes.  Its abilities now have very low antimatter costs, do not require facing, and do not require channeling.  They are primarily limited by their cooldown, which is reworked accordling (probably ~8-10 seconds).

This would mean the Domina would still have its weakness of being immobile when using its abilities, but the abilities themselves could be spammed freely.  If the antimatter cost was low enough (it's a late-game unit with single-target abilities, it should be) this would primarily limit the domina through cooldown time, which would cause a dramatic improvement in performance from Guidance.

Works for me lol.  Does anyone actually know what having a decent hull repairing ship would do to the Advent's overall effectivness as a race?  They are said to be the weakest right now.  Being able to for once resist PM's would make them IMO far more effective against Vasari than they've been in a long time (since the super-nerfing days).  Not to mention the benefits of healing both hull and shield at the same time.

That'd be a big deal against phase missiles, possibly moderating the otherwise vicious Vasari vs Advent matchup.  I would be concerned about TEC, though.  If Advent survives to this stage of the game in relatively good standing TEC is in serious trouble, and giving Advent a more powerful support cruiser to complement their forces at this point would just make that problem even more glaring.

Which means that for balance, it would make the Advent OP late game as a result?

I never play online lol (partially because I forgot my ICO password and don't know how to retrieve it), so I don't understand exactly how the balance would be affected.

It's just that people have been saying how overwhelmingly weak the Advent is lately.  The idea of something like this swinging them so much is just surprising to me.

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