Sins is a no buy » Forum Post by DarkCloud

Ryat

Join Date 06/2006

+429

Bye

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Let's hope reality will cure you of your insanity.

Get well soon.

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While I do think flak should do significantly more damage to bombers so that something can be done about the massed bomber squads, that shouldn't be a dealbreaker.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Flaks certainly have other uses despite not doing good damage to bombers. Its not like other games don't have balance issues.

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

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I think both flak and LF need at least a slight buff so that we can get away from the all-too-common LRF spam.

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Nananana, nananana, hey, hey, hey! GOODBYE!!!

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For every one that falls more will rise up! Such is the case in ... Rebellion!!! *epic music*

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If you don't like the balance, change it yourself. My flak works fine. If you are too inept to make this change, try a mod that helps. It sounds like you just don't really like the game. That is okay too!

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No I haven't fallen been playing since the start. A dedicated Sinner, the counter balance with the fighter\bomber\flak is still not right. Nor do I think it ever will be.

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Quoting seanw3,

reply 8

If you don't like the balance, change it yourself. My flak works fine. If you are too inept to make this change, try a mod that helps. It sounds like you just don't really like the game. That is okay too!

The problem is that the change has to come from the top, in an official patch, or 99% of the regulars will continue playing the regular game and there won't be enough people for anyone to get a game going on the (opinion) more balanced mod.

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WHIPperSNAPper2008

Join Date 03/2008

+126

Uh, does the original poster actually own and play Sins or is he basing what he says on what he's read in this forum?

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DarkCloud had been around the forums for a while. I can vouch for that at least.

I know from experience that MANY player reported issues that have been campaigned over have been addressed, in due time. I know this from both personal experience and from what has been done with continued patches. Many anti-strikecraft abilities on capital ships can now target MANY more targets than they could before at each ability level. Flak has been a tricky issue due to the way the game is coded (as it can also damage non-strike craft vessels).

Are strike craft overpowered? I would like to say that 'yes' they are simply because most ships do not have dedicated anti-strikecraft defenses, however, it is one item among many that is on the 'to-do' list of a very very few number of people who have spent most of their time in developing many improvements for the Rebellion stand alone expansion.

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I guess that is the key difference. I don't play RTS multiplayer for the specific reason that most people use the vanilla version. Also because unless it is a close personal friend I find the experience lacking in reliability and compelling storytelling. I seem to remember using hit and run tactics to counter bombers when I would come to the end game. No need to fight 300 bombers when you can just run past them to a less defensible planet. But then No likes to play on the large size maps like I do. I would get one or two humans and still have 5 AI's so that in the end it didn't really make a big difference when they either raged or had to go to work/school (the lazy bums).

All rants aside, hopefully there will be a late game counter to bombers in the new expansion. I would think that the influx in revenue form the new game will afford many fixes to old problems.

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Quoting boshimi336,

reply 12

I know from experience that MANY player reported issues that have been campaigned over have been addressed, in due time. I know this from both personal experience and from what has been done with continued patches. Many anti-strikecraft abilities on capital ships can now target MANY more targets than they could before at each ability level. Flak has been a tricky issue due to the way the game is coded (as it can also damage non-strike craft vessels).

What do you think about simply reducing bomber hull points (and perhaps slightly decreasing fighter DPS to compensate)? That would primarily increase flak vs bomber effectiveness, and would (somewhat unfortunately) slightly increase fighter vs bomber effectiveness, and would slightly reduce fighter effectiveness vs. everything else. Anti-strikecraft capital abilities might have to be very slightly nerfed as well to maintain their same effectiveness as currently.

That sort of change would probably be extremely easy to implement and would partially solve the problem, but would unfortunately hurt fighters a bit when not facing bombers. However, that would be the only gameplay-notable cost.

Are strike craft overpowered? I would like to say that 'yes' they are simply because most ships do not have dedicated anti-strikecraft defenses, however, it is one item among many that is on the 'to-do' list of a very very few number of people who have spent most of their time in developing many improvements for the Rebellion stand alone expansion.

Only bombers are overpowered IMO, and only when there are a whole lot of them, because they're quite difficult to counter effectively.

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Why not just increase flak DPS, while proportionally decreasing its effectiveness against all other units? Either way, I would prefer that they just fix the core problem with flak not being designed right. It really shouldn't be effective at all against large well armored ships.

The game is still quite playable even with this part not fixed. The endgame will always be a battle between huge ships and strike craft. As it will be in space, so is it in games.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Wrath89,

reply 14

What do you think about simply reducing bomber hull points (and perhaps slightly decreasing fighter DPS to compensate)? That would primarily increase flak vs bomber effectiveness, and would (somewhat unfortunately) slightly increase fighter vs bomber effectiveness, and would slightly reduce fighter effectiveness vs. everything else. Anti-strikecraft capital abilities might have to be very slightly nerfed as well to maintain their same effectiveness as currently.

I like this idea a lot actually, but I don't think its needed to decrease fighter DPS. The reason fighters suck is because they get shot down to quickly by flak, and if anything this will make people build more flak and thus that alone in an indirect nerf to them as well.

Quoting seanw3,

reply 15

Either way, I would prefer that they just fix the core problem with flak not being designed right. It really shouldn't be effective at all against large well armored ships.

They're not, the reason flak are used is because they are extremely durable, especially against LRF fire, with the bonus that LRF have light armor so they do some damage to them.

Further, I advise that the Devs add custom map sharing to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion.

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You could also tweak the accuracy of flak vs bombers, for addtional damage to just bombers. and vice versa lowering it against fighters would allow them to survive a bit longer.

Flak is really at a great spot minus vs bombers. But Im not a SC fan so my opinions might be bias.

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If "DarkCloud" is actually LordDarkCloud then yes I can also vouch for him in the community. We both played SINS right from the start years ago now.

While I played the game for a while and watched the nerf-bat strike homerun after homerun on this and that unit; what ultimately turned me away from the game was that it seemed to be impossible for the DEVS to balance things in such a way as to mitigate the use of unit-spam (whatever was considered the new "OP unit" before being hit by the nerf-bat) as a viable WIN strategy.

If games can't mitigate that, then I'm out. I have no interest in "changing my strat" from one unit-spam victory strategy to another.

I give LordDarkCloud (if this is in fact him) kudos for having stayed in the game as long as he did. He was certainly an active player for much longer than I.

that is all.....

the Monk

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 18

While I played the game for a while...watching the nerf-bat strike homerun after homerun on this and that unit is what ultimately turned me away from the game was that it seemed to be impossible for the DEVS to balance things in such a way as to mitigate the use of unit-spam (whatever was considered the new "OP unit" before being hit by the nerf-bat) as a viable WIN strategy.

If games can't mitigate that, then I'm out. I have no interest in "changing my strat" from one unit-spam victory strategy to another.

Wait, you mean there was a time before LRF spam and then more LRF spam was the order of the day?

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Dam I had such high hopes for this game when I started playing in the beta. Seems the balance is still fucked up. After god only knows how many patches. I will not buy the next stand alone. You guys can't even get this game balanced. The Flak/bomber damage is off. Makes em useless. I've come to realize you'll never get it right.

I will rehash an old post for this.

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Monk,

Hello old friend. Good to see your still out and about. Hope all is well with you.

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The Flak/bomber damage is off. Makes em useless.

DarkCloud doesn't make sense. Fighters counter bombers, not flak. Useless? Flak counters fighters, and is usefull against a ton of things (LRF is a big one, but scouts too!). I really don't think he knows what he is talking about.

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He's saying that he thinks flak should counter bombers better, I think.

And if that's what he's saying then I definitely agree. Late-game massed bomber squadrons in particular are too effective IMO.

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lol phailed strategies are usually the cause for outburst for units being op or nerfed. Frankly speaking the weakest race in the game (advent) will tell u having a powerful flak that companies your fleet does come in handy esp when u have more than a dozen like 40 defense vessels accompanying 60 illums. They shred everything in sight and there only weakness is the rate at which bombers are reproduced thus taking out carriers first becomes very important. You must always be on the offensive to pressure your opponent from building too many carriers.

If flak suddenly becomes nerfed then lrm counters fail.. if u nerf bombers then medium and heavy armor counters fail. Besides phasic trap is already nasty so why bother. The biggest problem to countering a massive swarm of bomber is to accept the fact to you waited too long for your opponent to mass that many carriers and your stuck with no counter-so say goodbye to your fleet of worthlessness.

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Responses like that, are the reasons you have 0 Karma.

Bombers: Need to be nerfed and/or flak needs to be buffed. There's your problem solver. In my mind, flak should be equally effective vs. fighters and bombers. Its flak. Anti-SC, correct? Bombers are SC. Fighters suck vs bombers, especially Vasari bombers. They just don't take them down fast enough.

Sins, at the moment, is a game of spam, spam, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, M************ SPAM. It should be about strategy, not about who gets LRF, Phase Missiles, and Bombers first.

Nerf LRF, nerf PMs, and nerf bombers. Reduce the armor of bombers. That'll do it alone. Reduce mitigation of PMs. That'll do it alone. LRFs? Make them do less damage and cost more to get, except Advent's, 'cause theirs suck.

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