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Dave_salmon
Dave_salmon
Join Date 06/2008
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AI placement

Same system AI placement

November 19, 2011 2:39:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just bought the Sins trinity through Steam for a damn good price even though I already own vanilla sins through stardock and, to my dissmay, it seems some monkey has tinkered with it and it may be the case I stop playing the game just as I feel the urge to restart.

 

I always play on the large or huge multi maps against two to four AI players and I have very rarely found that the enemy AI has been placed in the same system as me. Since installing trinity however, I cannot start a game without having an enemy AI placed in system with me.

 

Is this the way of things now or am I just getting some bad luck?

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Dave_salmon
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #1 November 19, 2011 2:46:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just bought the Sins trinity through Steam for a damn good price even though I already own vanilla sins through stardock and, to my dissmay, it seems some monkey has tinkered with it and it may be the case I stop playing the game just as I feel the urge to restart.



I always play on the large or huge multi maps against two to four AI players and I have very rarely found that the enemy AI has been placed in the same system as me. Since installing trinity however, I cannot start a game without having an enemy AI placed in system with me.



Is this the way of things now or am I just getting some bad luck?

Bad luck, positions are completely random. Though the odds of that happening might be different for the large/huge maps so you may want to play on the one you remember it happening on.

Also, if you really want to ensure you get a solar system to yourself, you can make a map with the galaxy forge (if you disable randomized positions you will always be player 0) or if you don't mind smaller maps play premade ones like Doppelgangers, Vulkoras Labyrinth etc.

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Dave_salmon
Dave_salmon
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #2 November 19, 2011 2:52:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks for the quick reply.

That's some really bad luck I'm getting then

Thanks for the remind about Galaxy Forge, I'd completely forgotten about it!

 

I'll just keep trying, but, so far, 6/6 times the enemy has been placed in system with me. Also, the difficulty seems to have been given an steroid injection as I'm now being bombareded by the novalith cannon by easy AI!

 

Thanks again for the reply, I'll keep trying until I find a random where I'm not spawned with an enemy and give the galaxy forge a whirl.

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Dave_salmon
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #3 November 19, 2011 3:02:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Dave_salmon,
reply 2
I'll just keep trying, but, so far, 6/6 times the enemy has been placed in system with me. Also, the difficulty seems to have been given an steroid injection as I'm now being bombarded by the novalith cannon by easy AI!

From original Sins yes, though actually the AI was the easiest in just Entrenchment which you could still play if you don't care about the diplomacy. The reason is because the AI does a terrible job of trying to destroy heavily upgraded starbases with some repair bays as support. Also Starbases are the ideal way to handle novalith attacks, as each faction has a starbase upgrade that prevents you from losing the planet its orbiting from bombardment.

If the easy AI got a novalith its probably been a long game already, and the AI in diplomacy is a bit more expansionary so turtling is much harder to do (at least early on). If you spend most of your resources early on to focus on colonizing neutral planets as quickly as possible, by the time you encounter the enemy you should have a solid enough position to then play however you wish.

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Dave_salmon
Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #4 November 19, 2011 3:52:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Also, the difficulty seems to have been given an steroid injection as I'm now being bombareded by the novalith cannon by easy AI!

Uh... how long are you leaving it alone for?  I play against the higher difficulty AI's, and I rarely see superweapons until after the 2-hour mark.  That should give you more than sufficient time to be ready for them to come online.  Anyways, if you don't like superweapons you probably shouldn't be playing multi-star maps.  Multi-star games are very much a race to build a powerful empire that can support superweapons and massive fleets.

Remember that on big maps, your goal is to expand your empire as rapidly as possible.  Stopping to put a starbase on anything except a critical choke point is probably suicidal. 

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Dave_salmon
Thoumsin
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #5 November 19, 2011 4:13:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I always play on the large or huge multi maps against two to four AI players and I have very rarely found that the enemy AI has been placed in the same system as me. Since installing trinity however, I cannot start a game without having an enemy AI placed in system with me.

Is this the way of things now or am I just getting some bad luck?[/quote]

When you choose a huge random multistar map, you have always 5 star system where only two star system with wormhole ( 2 wormhole ), the 3 other star system ( smaller ) can only be reach with jump from star to star... all player are located in the 2 star system with wormhole... each star have 1 pirate base...

[quote who="Dave_salmon" reply="2" id="3026904"]Thanks again for the reply, I'll keep trying until I find a random where I'm not spawned with an enemy and give the galaxy forge a whirl.

Well, you only need a notepad... use notepad for open the file :

.../Program Files/Stardock Games/Sins of a Solar Empire/Galaxy/Huge Multi-System Random Map.galaxy

go to the line "starCount 5".... this line define how much star system... if you wish a extra huge random 10 star, simply increase the starcount to 10... later, you will need to add 5 more description of star...

Well, will not begin to make a notepad tutorial for create a map, unless you wish it... simply copy the code below in your notepad and save it like ".../Program Files/Stardock Games/Sins of a Solar Empire/Galaxy/Huge Multi-System Random Map custom.galaxy"... 5 star system, max 1 player by star only ( mean max 5 player ), each star system have wormhole connection ( will be a real maze )...

If you change the "areExtraPlanetsColonized FALSE" by "areExtraPlanetsColonized TRUE", the asteroid and the ice/volcanic near your homeworld ( and other player homeworld ) will already be colonized... a lot of thing are not random since min and max count have similar value...

TXT
versionNumber 3
isBrowsable TRUE
browsePictureName "ScenarioPicture-RandomHuge"
browseName "IDS_CUSTOMGALAXY_NAME_RANDOMHUGEMULTI"
browseDescription "IDS_CUSTOMGALAXY_DESCRIPTION_RANDOMHUGEMULTI"
isFirstCapitalShipIsFlagship TRUE
randomizeStartingPositions TRUE
planetArtifactDensity .15
planetBonusDensity .40
normalStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:Population 3
normalStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:CivilianModules 1
normalStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:TacticalModules 0
normalStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:Home 1
normalStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:ArtifactLevel 10
normalStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:Infrastructure 2
quickStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:Population 4
quickStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:CivilianModules 1
quickStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:TacticalModules 0
quickStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:Home 1
quickStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:ArtifactLevel 10
quickStartHomePlanetUpgradeLevel:Infrastructure 2
recommendedGameTypeCount 1
recommendedGameType "FFA"
metersPerGalaxyUnit 25000.000000
pixelsPerGalaxyUnit 1
useRandomGenerator TRUE
randomizerParams
    starPosOffsetRange
        minPercentage 10.0
        maxPercentage 15.0
    playerParams
        startingCredits 3000
        startingMetal 800
        startingCrystal 250   
        homePlanetType "TerranHome"
        homePlanetStarRadiusRange
            minPercentage 1
            maxPercentage 1.1   
        areExtraPlanetsColonized FALSE
        extraPlanetsMaxRadius 15
        extraPlanetsRadiusRange
            minPercentage 0.9
            maxPercentage 1.0       
        extraPlanetGroupCount 2
        extraPlanetGroup
            minCount 1
            maxCount 1
            planetTypeCount 1
            planetType "Asteroid"
        extraPlanetGroup
            minCount 1
            maxCount 1
            planetTypeCount 1
            planetType "RandomIceVolcanic"
    starCount 5
    star
        type "RandomStar"
        radius 110
        connectionStarRadiusRange .65
        connectionChance .75       
        maxPlayerCount 1
        ringCount 4
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.2
                maxPercentage 0.3
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 1
                maxCount 1
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "PirateBase"           
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 0.7
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 9
                maxCount 9
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.7
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 15
                maxCount 15
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"       
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 2
                maxCount 2
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "Wormhole"                       
    star
        type "RandomStar"
        radius 120
        connectionStarRadiusRange .65
        connectionChance .75       
        maxPlayerCount 1
        ringCount 4
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.2
                maxPercentage 0.3
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 1
                maxCount 1
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "PirateBase"           
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 0.7
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 9
                maxCount 9
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.7
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 15
                maxCount 15
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"       
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 2
                maxCount 2
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "Wormhole"                           
    star
        type "RandomStar"
        radius 100
        connectionStarRadiusRange .75
        connectionChance .7       
        maxPlayerCount 1
        ringCount 4
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.2
                maxPercentage 0.3
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 0
                maxCount 1
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "PirateBase"               
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 0.7
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 4
                maxCount 5
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.7
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 8
                maxCount 10
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"       
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 2
                maxCount 2
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "Wormhole"                           
    star
        type "RandomStar"
        radius 100
        connectionStarRadiusRange .75
        connectionChance .7       
        maxPlayerCount 1
        ringCount 4
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.2
                maxPercentage 0.3
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 0
                maxCount 1
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "PirateBase"               
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 0.7
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 4
                maxCount 5
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.7
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 8
                maxCount 10
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"   
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 2
                maxCount 2
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "Wormhole"                           
    star
        type "RandomStar"
        radius 100
        connectionStarRadiusRange .75
        connectionChance .7       
        maxPlayerCount 1
        ringCount 4
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.2
                maxPercentage 0.3
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 0
                maxCount 1
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "PirateBase"               
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 0.7
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 4
                maxCount 5
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.7
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 8
                maxCount 10
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "WeightedRandom"
        ring
            starRadiusRange
                minPercentage 0.3
                maxPercentage 1.0
            militiaColonizationPerc 0
            planetGroupCount 1
            planetGroup
                minCount 2
                maxCount 2
                planetTypeCount 1
                planetType "Wormhole"                           

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Dave_salmon
Dave_salmon
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #6 November 20, 2011 6:21:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Thanks again for the replies. Darvin3: I think the term is 'turtling'? I like to completely take over the first system I am in, fortifying the crap out of an upgrading all of the colonisable caps and then just take over the critical bits in the other systems. May not be how I am 'supposed' to play the game, but its how I happily played Sins for the first couple of years it was out and from that Thoumsin has said, the AI placement is no longer random at all and is now based on where the worm holes are placed - either that or the placement of wormholes has changed. Thoumsin: Thanks for pointing me to the ini files, I hadn't considered doing that with sins to be honest with you. I'll have a mess and see if I can get it back to how it used to be. Thanks again for the replies, I realise that I am probably fond of the parts of the game and ways of playing the game that are sneered at by the more competetive and 'purest' s-rpg players but I play to enjoy not to compete or, tbh, challenge myself by playing Vicious AI players...
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Dave_salmon
Thoumsin
Join Date 03/2008
+80
Reply #7 November 20, 2011 8:53:28 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Dave_salmon,
reply 6
Thanks for pointing me to the ini files, I hadn't considered doing that with sins to be honest with you. I'll have a mess and see if I can get it back to how it used to be.

Well, i was just beaten on a custom very huge random multistar map... 10 star system, 10 player ( one by system ), random pirate base ( min - max ), no wormhole, 3 planet from the start...

Was not lucky with random, 3 pirate base in my star system... was attacked from all side... not enough time for build starbase at the start and AI have finish me... point is that add more "random" can greatly unbalance the game... some time in your favor but some time against you...

I am not a modder but a lot of think in sins can be modified/customized... i am not good with the Stardock tools, so i use the notepad ( map, particle, hardpointing my model, etc )... pretty sure that with time, you will be able to "build" a little mod who make sins play like you wish... 

As for the original sins and actual version of random map, only the normal/quick start section was changed/added... As for the ai placement, it was always in the two star system with wormhole... with max player at 5... the placement is something internal... don't know if they populate randomly or in a sequential way...

You can try to a more simple edit of the original file... in the first "star" group set the maxplayercount to 1 and in the second "star" group set the maxplayercount to 9... so, huge multistar random map will always have one of the big system with only 1 player ( with luck, it is you ) and the other big system will have a max of 9 player...

A great resource for help you is the soase weebly... by example :

- http://soase.weebly.com/placing-maps.html read the section about the galaxy manifest

- http://soase.weebly.com/creating-maps.html

- http://soase.weebly.com/spiral-galaxy-fix.html with this more that huge galaxy map, a lot of time will be needed before you meet a other race...

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Dave_salmon
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #8 November 20, 2011 1:59:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Dave_salmon,
reply 6
I like to completely take over the first system I am in, fortifying the crap out of an upgrading all of the colonisable caps and then just take over the critical bits in the other systems. May not be how I am 'supposed' to play the game, but its how I happily played Sins for the first couple of years it was out and from that Thoumsin has said,

Its fine to do that once you have a decent sized Empire, but if you're taking over planets one at a time and developing them with max population, logistics, trade ports etc. you're naturally going to be at a disadvantage. If you start turtling right at the start you will have either an extremely long game or you will lose. Basically you want to grab as many neutral planets as possible right away, typically only getting the first 2 population upgrades and building extractors on each planet, with the occasional lab for planet colonizing techs and LRF frigates. Spend most of your resources on your fleet so you can quickly destroy militia. Once you can no longer expand without fighting the AI or the AI launches a major attack on you, then you can start turtling up with a decent chance of winning (though it will take you a lot longer than if you were more aggressive).

I used to play sort of the same way before Diplomacy, but it has since taught be how bad of an idea early turtling is. If you let your opponents get an Empire that is substantially bigger than yours, it should be common sense that you're going to have a very hard time.

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Dave_salmon
Wrath89
Join Date 05/2011
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Reply #9 November 20, 2011 2:22:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You should be aiming to have 5 planets or more 7 to 15 minutes into the game - then build up a moderate trade chain, and then spam long range frigates and attack. That alone should be enough to take out the lower-level AIs (Unfair and below)... except when you get significantly later in the game, in which case you can start building lots of carriers/bombers.

Static defenses are expensive and usually aren't needed, except if you're fighting Cruel or Vicious and absolutely need them. Feel free to build them if you want to but they probably aren't worth it. A fleet is more effective than static fortification.

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Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #10 November 20, 2011 4:42:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Darvin3: I think the term is 'turtling'? I like to completely take over the first system I am in, fortifying the crap out of an upgrading all of the colonisable caps and then just take over the critical bits in the other systems.

Sure, that's cool if you want to play that way, and I don't want to come off as somehow knocking you down.  However, this is going to take a really long time which is going to give even low-difficulty AI's plenty of opportunity to get a powerful economy and hit high-end tech like superweapons.  You do need to be ready for superweapons to come online, and if you can't have countermeasures available within 2 hours then you really need to be looking at how quickly you're moving.

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