WHAT is Fallen Enchantress? You tell us

Pitch it as a new game. "Fallen Enchantress", drop the elemental part, or rename it. Its not done and its totally new, BP renamed themselves. If not, pitch it as a you where before, "New life from a Dead world, from the minds that brought you SINS and Dimigod comes a world full mysticism and heroes, breaking the mold and born anew comes Elemental: Fallen Enchantress! A Turn-based Strategy RPG with new advanced AI, new magic and endless re-playability on totally new randomized maps. Adventure your way to glory and tame the perilous world in your quest to total domination!" Sorry if it sounds cheese but I'm sold with that pitch line if the video shown in the background was tantalizing and I knew nothing about it.

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Refer to it simply as a standalone title set in the Elemental world. It's not an expandalone, it's not a sequel, and it's not a reboot. It is its own entity, unique in its own way, and completely independent of War of Magic.

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AlLanMandragoran

Join Date 09/2010

+63

Describe it as the anti-establishment fantasy candidate. FE 2012!

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A really cool, educational FPS.

Or at least that's what I'll be telling people until I get my hands on the beta.

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A remake I guess? That does seem to be essentially what you are doing with it. Granted, you're not pretending WoM never happened, but it is another attempt, using a different approach than last time.

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DsRaider

Join Date 11/2008

+70

A Reboot?

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"Don't call it a comeback I been here for years," seems to work with the inner-city urban dwellers this game is trying to appeal to.

-Until I get the beta-

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I'd really have to play it to know for sure. From what I've seen in screens and videos it essentially looks like a WoM mod. It's the same core game, the same major assets, the same layout, it's just been modded a bit (or a lot) with some alternate gameplay rules and some new spells and monsters. Basically if you look at FE screens next to WoM screens, you can't really tell the difference, other than some purple terrain and some UI changes, so I think passing it off as a "new game" will be a hard pill to swallow for some. Standalone expansion is probably the safest bet, but at the same time any connection at all to WoM will probably keep some people away.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2411

Quoting Sanati,

reply 8

I'd really have to play it to know for sure. From what I've seen in screens and videos it essentially looks like a WoM mod. It's the same core game, the same major assets, the same layout, it's just been modded a bit (or a lot) with some alternate gameplay rules and some new spells and monsters. Basically if you look at FE screens next to WoM screens, you can't really tell the difference, other than some purple terrain and some UI changes, so I think passing it off as a "new game" will be a hard pill to swallow for some. Standalone expansion is probably the safest bet, but at the same time any connection at all to WoM will probably keep some people away.

Wow. Sorry but I don't think most people would concur with that. There's land, it shares a similar art style. But that's about it. I guess we'll just have to wait until the beta.

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the suggestion of a game set in the same world, with a new version of the game engine(if true) and a suggestion of a name alteration to 'fallen ELEMENTAL enchantress' might help.

harpo

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As long as it starts off "Elemental..." it's going to be chained down by the first game's terrible reputation. The WoM part was the tagline and we generally ignored it, everyone referred to the original game as 'Elemental'. It's what it was called in reviews, what we told our friends, what gaming sites called it.

Need proof? http://reviews.cnet.com/pc-games/elemental-war-of-magic/4505-9696_7-33375765.html read the full review and count the amount of times that it was called Elemental.

Releasing another game called 'Elemental: the blah blah ' using the same engine, graphic style & assets WILL be perceived as an expansion or a knockoff by everyone except the most dedicated zealot [and we pre-orderd the first one and won't need to buy FE]. Unless you add on a great big 2 at the end that is.

Even after following all your blog posts, watching the videos, and generally trolling these forums.. I'm still expecting it to be Elemental 1.5. That's what it looks like from out here.. sorry.

I've got nothing but mad respect for the stuff you guys do.. but .... once again, you guys might be too close to the product and need to step back and re-assess things...

That's why you asked our opinion, right?

Maybe consult a branding expert, or a successful marketing agency known for representing a respectable franchise. I'm sure most of the well known jurnos,(Tom Chick, the RPS guys etc) happen to be contacted by agencies fairly often and would gladly get you a shortlist.

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Quoting Sanati,

reply 8

I'd really have to play it to know for sure. From what I've seen in screens and videos it essentially looks like a WoM mod. It's the same core game, the same major assets, the same layout, it's just been modded a bit (or a lot) with some alternate gameplay rules and some new spells and monsters. Basically if you look at FE screens next to WoM screens, you can't really tell the difference, other than some purple terrain and some UI changes, so I think passing it off as a "new game" will be a hard pill to swallow for some. Standalone expansion is probably the safest bet, but at the same time any connection at all to WoM will probably keep some people away.

I think I see Sanati's point. The underlying game mechanics may be completely redone, it may feel like a completely different game when you're playing it (of course we haven't played it, so can't say for sure), but just glancing at a screenshot it still looks like WoM. Yeah, us WoM players can tell the difference (the interface changes in particular), but we're already getting FE for free, we're not the people that need to be won over.

I'm trying to play devil's advocate and think like someone who has never played WoM, only read the reviews and glanced at screenshots - and when they see screenshots of FE I expect they're seeing an expansion, a game that looks very similar on the surface. Not that I'm recommending it to be marketed as an 'expansion,' I don't think that's a fair way to describe a game with as many core gameplay changes as FE, but on the other hand it may be difficult to convince this hypothetical new player that this is a completely new game he's buying. It does kinda fall in between - I described it once as Elemental 1.5, and that still seems to apply.

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mqpiffle

Join Date 10/2010

+44

How about something like The Elder Scrolls series.

Same world and lore, different 'feel' and rules. Some of the same stuff, some new and innovative ideas.

Elemental 2: Fallen Enchantress.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

Call it a sequel, that's what it is. Not the first game to keep the lore, but re-do almost all the mechanics.

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The game is Elemental: Fallen Enchantress. It's not a sequal or an expansion. It is supposed to be a stand alone game and should be marketed as such. I caution against proclaiming the title as Elemental for advertising purposes. The game itself should be called 'Fallen Enchantress' And the next iteration of the game should have it's own unique name.

The name "Elemental" can be used in it's description within the game manual or the back of the box (is there one?) but not the title. The same way that Dark Sun and Dragonlance don't name their book titles "Dragonlance: blah blah blah. They simply use the world and it's history as their backdrop with that information posted on the side. The 'world' of the game is "Elemental" the game itself is "Fallen Enchantress".

Just my 2 cents

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Wait till the beta gets played, there's just too much unknown to us to really say anything good or bad.

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It's a sequel, plain and simple. There's no two ways to go about it really when you really look at the games.

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It's basically a sequel, and if you must have a term that's the one that fits least poorly in my mind. But what it really is is the game WoM should have been. So sell it as that. There isn't a comfy term for it, but there doesn't really need to be. You can call it "the new Elemental", you can call it "What we should have made", you can call it "what out customers hoped for from WoM". You can call it "Our best attempt at making the best fantasy 4x game ever, informed by the mistakes of our previous attempts and steered by the visionary behind Fall from Heaven II". Or you can call it "A game we finally feel is worth our time and your money".

I'm not a marketing guy, but that's my thought on the matter. Openness and honesty is a good thing, tell people what's up without defaulting to innacurate labels.

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Enchantress - Mistress of Magic?

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Having not played Elemental i can only give an opinion from someone who read about Elemental and what impression i was left with.
So, lets get right to the big white elephent in the room, Elemental: WoM, by all reports and consensus, was mediocre at best.
That being the case, steer well away from using "Elemental" anywhere in the title. It shouldn't matter if FE is a sequel, remake, reboot or whatever, it is what you tell the masses it is.

What's unclear, is how to market the new title and get the product in the hands of the gamers, right?

But, what is clear is that labelling it with the Elemental tag, will kill the game in the greater market. Sure, many SD fans will still buy it, but you have that sale already, you need the wider RPG crowd to get interested, and from the outside looking in, having this game marketed as having anything to do with Elemental is suicide.

Let people draw their own conclusion once they are playing it, by then your out the gate and can let the new title speak for itself.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

Hmm, that's a good point. You've already sold it to a lot of SD fans since they're getting it for free. The people you really want to get at is those who don't have it. So calling it a sequel is probably a bad idea then.

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The most important thing is that Fallen Enchantress should be a great game when released. It must not need any patches, otherwise it risks getting reviews of "like Elemental, not ready". In my opinion there is just one chance to get it right. What I have seen suggests it will be a great game, so I hope there is nothing to worry here...

As goodgimp said, calling it a new title set in the Elemental world sounds right. The one thing tying the two games together is the world. Yeah, the engine is also shared, but what I have seen suggests it isn't really the same engine. The game mechanics are wildly differing. Taking some distance to WoM can only be a good thing. The less talk about WoM when releasing FE the better. To new players WoM either means a bad game, or it means nothing at all. Those who know WoM in its 1.4 form know already FE. So there is little reason to mention WoM at all.

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Elemntal 2: Fallen enchantress. The sequel to Elemental 1: war of magic. "Same" engine different playstyle. I think it should just be called Elemental 2.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Hopefully- we can say this:

"It's a good game."

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I completely agree that trying to market FE as something completely new and different would be a horrible idea. Frankly, it would be a total lie and would only likely only frustrate and annoy gamers and reviewers.

This is still a fantasy, TBS, 4X. Same world. Same characters. Same lore. Same basic mechanics (shards, channelers, etc.). Many of the same art assets as well. If someone picks up a screenshot of both games, they will easily see the similarities.

I have little doubt that FE will be a much better game than WoM ever was, and I have little doubt that it has tons of new characters, art assets, etc. However, this is not a 100% new game. It started life as an expansion and grew from there. It really is a reboot by most definitions, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Be up front about it. You guys earned a ton of good will by taking responsibility for the failure of WoM, and then being very open about FE. You can continue to earn good will by being honest, and may even get more credit if the game is really good, since it will stand in such stark contrast to WoM. That doesn't mean that you focus more on the failures of WoM than the hopeful success of FE. It just means to acknowledge the first while highlighting the second.

I say just call it Elemental: Fallen Enchantress. Don't try to call it Elemental 2 or anything. Call it a new game in the Elemental world, but don't shy from the connection to WoM. Executive summary / preview blurb wise, go with something like, "We acknowledged the failings of WoM, brought on some of the best talent in the industry, and reinvented the game from the ground up to create an amazing, modern fantasy 4X TBS game."

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