Tips for early econ & pressuring as TEC?

So, I figured I'd play a few games and I'd have a few questions: WRONG.  These games take forever, I have many questions!

TEC are the REX & harass race, and while I think I have the REX'ing down, the harassment seems to be a challenge.  I've only played against AI, and while I've hypothesized before coming to the forums about an early Savo pressure build, I've never gone through with it sucessfully.  Here's my current opener and general build:

Cap Fact (built close as possible to starting point of worker to get an Akkan out ASAP)
Extractors/2 Scouts
Manually scout with the scouts, eventually set to autoscout
Mass Cobalts, picking up a colony ship somewhere in there
Aim to colonize crystal over metal
To the best of my ability I try to not build any research structures in my home system.  My friend recommended I instead save the room for TP's and BT's (if that's the abbreviation for Broadcast Towers).  I am I supposed to do this because of allegiance?
Build 2 Civics
Max Home world popcap
Research Modular Architecture and/or Colonization techs as appropriate
Focus on buying popcaps soon as planets are taken, maxing each one's popcap as it continues
"play naked" with almost no static defense, trying to REX as much as possible
@ around ~5 worlds I go for trade
fill out TP's everywhere, continue to expo
upgrade fleet capacity if I sense danger
2 more civics
Refineries for every adjacent extractor
2 Militaries
Javelins
+1 Military
"Hoho's"
Upgrade command,
2nd cap Marza if I am feeling like getting aggro fast, Akkan if there's still more expoing to do
I level the Akkan Colony/Aura/Bolt/Aura/Aura/Armistice/Bolt/Bolt

Try to keep upgrading all javelin tec's
Try to put BT's up everywhere
Establish a few fortress/resupply worlds near the front
Whore myself out to an AI to make an ally on one front
Try to keep pop as low as possible to avoid upkeep costs
"Farm" the pirates when possible for exp, trying to get that Marza to 6
Once I feel that I have enough military, econ & command upgrades I dump into a few pop capacities and churn out Hoho's, Javelins, Kodiaks, Kol's & Marzas (a few cielos too) from my fortress worlds, relying mostly on cap ships to bombard.
If possible, get 2 Novalith's & dual-strike enemy home worlds periodically to disown them.

Plz critique & point out where/how I could put on more pressure early.
Also, I usually play on medium-big random map with me+3AI's, so I have a few questions about MP games & Sins in general

1)About what ratio of planets/people should I expect in MP?
2)Do I have to use the supply granted by increasing capacity to incurr the ukeep costs?
3)Any tips for keeping my tech up to date?  I often feel like I'm waiting on the long tech times
4)About when is a second cap ideal?
5)What are the Advent/Vasari abilities I should look out for?  I usually just target the ship with the more shiny or intimidating animation during a fight :3
6) Is it viable to play TEC for a long term overwhelm fight? Like, instead of capitalizing on early economic lead to do pressure, use the general econ strength to make a doom push in the midgame.
7)What other military trees besides missiles should I look into?
8)Is fortress world and soft underbelly planet development good against humans?
9)I realize upgrading max pop techs, cargo holds techs & culture techs increases ones income, but which done does it the most efficiently & when is it a smart idea to invest in it.
10)About how many subfleets/how large of subfleets is common/smart?  I usually have about 2/3 offense, 1/3 defense+lots of static def @ key worlds.

Thank you to anyone who read all of that :)



 

 

7,230 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

First Question, before I start amassing walls of text before you:

Vanilla, Entrenchment, Diplomacy or Rebellion [beta 1]?

But, some basics I can answer: (Bolded/Underlined important parts)

2) Just because you upgrade the maximum number of Capital Ships/Fleet Supply you can have, does NOT mean you MUST own the maximum number of ships possible - and trying to do so immediately is pretty foolish, even as TEC.  If you dont have the resources available to do so, dont spend it all in one place - make sure you are keeping pace with Research and Planetary development.  You could have the largest fleet in the galaxy, but if you can't maintain your planets or research, your ships will crumble to smaller enemy numbers and your planets will fall into disrepair. Balance is key.

3) If you have the resources and you dont plan on a mass expansion into new/enemy territory, ALWAYS keep research going, but if you're hard pressed for credits, follow what you need.  If your economy is sagging and you're not under the knife, invest in economic things such as trade tech, population + tech and resource extracting tech. You'd be suprised how quickly small numbers like 5% add up.

4) Depends on YOUR play style and YOUR first cap.  Generally as TEC, my first cap would be a Sova Carrier (TDN Salvacion) or Marza (TDN Panzer), the former for it's economically aiding abilities, the latter for pure strength. To make up for a lack of an Akkan, I'd have two Colony Frigates.  Generally, both cap ships would be able to clear out a planet's defenders alone, the Sova with the help of Missile Batteries (Fantastic ability in small engagements), the Marza with Incendiary Rounds/Radiation Bomb (the Vasari ships completely fail to match the destructive power of the Marza, imo.. both of these are great at taking out enemy ships en masse).  A second cap for me would roll out around the same time that I was expanding too fast or fighting too hard for just one to handle. But if your first cap ships is an Akkan, your second should be something with strong firepower (NOT The Kol - it's a good ship in small engagements but it's abilities cost so much AM and do very little for a large fleet that I almost never build them) to attack/defend your holdings accordingly.

5) Oh, boy. A big one.

Vasari -

Skirantra Carriers  - My first cap as Vasari AND a fantastic support ship, this baby can single-handedly produce up to TWENTY bomber squadrons on it's own. Past level 6, this ship can also make 3 copies of a friendly frigate - which means that 1 Karrastra can turn into 4 and take you out that much faster. Even at low levels, it can give off a large repair field which heals ALL FRIENDLY SHIPS TO IT IN THE REGION.  Take this ship out ASAP.

 

Kortul Devastator - This ship is amazing at keeping itself alive while dishing out massive damage and crippling your anti-matter supply while doing so.  Take this out while it's at low levels, unless you want it eating half your fleet alive.

Vulkoras Desolator - less dangerous than the other two, but it can raze a planet before you can say "Splendiferous".

Serevun Overseer - supports the bulk of the Vasari fleet and can slow down  your reinforcements while boosting enemy strength.

Jarun Migrator - sneaky devil can build Starbases.

 

Advent -

Iconus Guardian- No, I'm not crazy for putting this in front of their Capital Ships - this thing is a MENACE.  In fact, most Advent capitals are normally disregardable because the true strength of the Advent lies in their fleet synergy, and this unit takes the cake in terms of support. Any damage done to a ship when this angel of protection has it's Shield Projection/Repulsion on (You cant miss either really, they're the most obvious special abilities in the game afterSuperweapons) the ENTIRE FLEET under that shield shares damage evenly. So, if you're doing 100 damage to one shipunder a cloak, and their fleet has 100 ships, you will do about 1 damage to each ship. KILL ALL OF THEM FIRST

 

Halycon Carrier - interchangable on the list with the Skirantra, it boasts more Strike Craft than any other ship in the game, and a great support ability in that it can literally repel enemy squadrons from a large vicinity around it. Be careful around them, they're strong in small and large engagements.

 

Radiance Battleship- cripples anti-matter dependent ships (Such as a Marza, Dunov or Kol) and forces ships to attack itself. Less dangerous later on, but still a force to be reckoned with.

Illuminator Vessels - called Lums or Illums for short, they have long range, can fire from 3 of 4 sides of the ship and are spammable. Enjoy watching this fleet of piranhas eat your fleet tho, they're quite pretty.

Aeria Drone Host - more mentionable than the Vasari small carrier because it can have 3 squadrons and is, overall, the strongest small carrier in-game. 

 7) Armor, Shields, Autocannons, but ESPECIALLY Health (with the +).

 9) Early for some, later for most. Early on there is a TEC Tech (can't remember the name) that reduces the cost of building Mines by up to 40% - which will save a TON of credits early game. (It's also not a bad idea to invest in an Akkan's colonize ability instead of it's passive one early on, saves you precious credits) I invest in that first. Max population techs are generally mid-early game, as is culture. You want to start spreading culture as early as YOU can, but dont rush for it. TEC culture is normally strong enough to hold it's own. Trade bonus techs are generally mid-late game, when you have a stable trade economy.

10) Depends entirely on you. Some players build up large fleets then rush for the enemy homeworld early, because the loss of a home planet early game is pretty much game over for whoever loses it, even if they can reclaim it.

Xer0 \^/

Reply #2 Top

Thanks Xero!
I play "Trinity" btw, which is Diplomacy+Entrenchment.  That build I posted was primarily developed in Vanilla, however.  I've only played a few games with the expansions.
Thank you especially for covering the "what to focus" in depth |-) .  Focus seems to more than half the battle strat in Sins.



Reply #3 Top

Lol, no problem.  I only have up to Entrenchment, so my Diplo knowledge is understandably limited. I figured I'd go in-depth on the units to look out for especially, because I remember the first time I fought against Iconus Guardians. Their shields went up and scared me witless, so I retreated midway through the battle.

TEC's biggest Entrenchment strength, IMO, is explosive mines as a planet defense. Other than that, I think I covered all of your questions that I can (I dont play too much MP.. O:) ), but feel free to ask me if you have any trouble. :grin:

Xer0 \^/

Reply #4 Top

Quote Sins Wiki:

  • If three or more Iconus Guardians are present in the fleet with Shield Projection active, it can go a long way to ensuring victory, as the projections absorb a third of the damage that would have been received by the other ships. In addition, if you are allied with someone, the Projection will also keep them safe from damage, as well. With a Progenitor Mothership's Shield Regeneration, you can also ensure that the Guardians are well within safe damage tolerances.
  • Be careful, though, to spread out your Guardians. Shield Projection does not overlap with additional Guardians, so watch out, or de-activate the Auto-Cast.
    • Tightly grouped Guardians, when placed in a fleet, will automatically cycle their Shield Projection activations to prevent two from being active at once in the same area.
    • When you've got a large number of ships taking damage at once, though, this doesn't help much.
  • Also, make sure to include Guardians in ANY defensive fleet, as they can buy you that critical time to get your main fleet(s) back to defend the gravity well. Even if you have decided to let said planet go, the amount of time your ships can survive with the Guardians will more than damage an enemy fleet.

 

------------

 

Xero don't forget to explain to him about the mothership shield regen cloud and malice as most guardian users start with 2 caps, a mother ship and an halcyon.

Quote sins wiki:

The third ability, Shield Regeneration, is especially handy if you have an Iconus Guardian or two (or three) in the fleet, as it does what it says on the tin - it will replenish friendly shields at a rate of 37.5, 50, or 62.5 shield pts. per second, again, at levels 1, 2, and 3, respectively. Combine that with a Guardian's substantial shield reserve, and it becomes a tough nut to crack, indeed.


Malice:

Sins wiki Quote

Malice increases damage propagation by 30% on 8, 16, or 24 ships in an 8000-km range (the game makes no mention of affected targets) at levels 1, 2, and 3, respectively. This means that when one ship affected by the Malice ability is damaged, ALL other ships affected by the same ability will take 30% of that damage. It's sort of a reverse of the Iconus Guardian'sShield Projection ability.

Reply #5 Top

Mass Cobalts, picking up a colony ship somewhere in there
End of quote

Mass Scouts are a more cost effective early force to take down siege frigates at militia worlds. Once the Siege are dead, just build 1 or 2 turrets which will take out the rest of the militia allowing your colonization force to move on.

 

My friend recommended I instead save the room for TP's and BT's (if that's the abbreviation for Broadcast Towers)
End of quote

Not really seen that abbreviation for Culture centers before but for the most part, they don't need to be spammed. Really, 1 on your homeworld and then on 1 on each of your frontline/chokepoint worlds is enough to raise the allegiance of most of your empire. If you have a very spread out empire, then maybe 1 more somewhere in the middle of your home and your choke worlds. Otherwise, you should be spamming TP's.

 

Refineries for every adjacent extractor
End of quote

Numerous analysis have confirmed time and again that only under the most rare of circumstances should you place a refinery vs an additional trade port. To clarify, the general rule I have seen with most folks is that you should only place a refinery on a world where it will "service" 12-15+ extractors at the adjacent worlds. So if you have 1 spot that is connected to 4-5 colonizable wells or wells with Neutral extractors you have captured and the total count of all of those extractors is 15+, then it will gain you more to fill that world with refineries rather than additional trade. Otherwise, you make more money having the TP create more credits and just buying the metal/crystal outright.

 

If possible, get 2 Novalith's & dual-strike enemy home worlds periodically to disown them.
End of quote

Personal preference, not needed or terribly effective in Online MP. The amount of resources in Research and tactical upgrades usually yield better results with added ships to your fleet.

 

Once I feel that I have enough military, econ & command upgrades I dump into a few pop capacities and churn out Hoho's, Javelins, Kodiaks, Kol's & Marzas (a few cielos too) from my fortress worlds, relying mostly on cap ships to bombard.
End of quote

Not a bad fleet composition however if you have spent the money to maximize missile research you would be better to use carriers with bombers along with the Javelins for your primary damage dealing and use the Flak Frigates for Tanking in place of Kodiaks for both roles. Also, while the Marza is great, Kol's aren't really needed vs the AI since the Kol's primary roles are either tanking massed Phase Missile Spam or killing massed strikecraft. Neither of those strategies are used effectively by the AI hence, there is little need to build the Kol when battling AI. Against the AI, my caps of choice are Sova, Akkan, Dunov & Marza. Don't underestimate the power of the Dunov to obliterate enemy shields & AM with EMP and decimate their SC while interrupting abilities with Magnetize.

 

9)I realize upgrading max pop techs, cargo holds techs & culture techs increases ones income, but which done does it the most efficiently & when is it a smart idea to invest in it.
End of quote

With TEC, its all about the Trade and more importantly Pervasive Economy. This gives you a portion of every purchase made by every empire in the game. This 1 tech more than any other will give you vastly greater benefit than adding some population to a few Terran or Ice planets.

 

2)Do I have to use the supply granted by increasing capacity to incurr the ukeep costs?
End of quote

Sadly, the moment the fleet supply upgrade is completed researching, the upkeep costs are implemented against all of your resources. Do not upgrade unless you have the economic foundation to not only support the upkeep, but to support purchasing of the ships required to fill the supply as anything unfilled is wasting money.

 

Quoting Xer07, reply 1
Iconus Guardian- No, I'm not crazy for putting this in front of their Capital Ships - this thing is a MENACE. In fact, most Advent capitals are normally disregardable because the true strength of the Advent lies in their fleet synergy, and this unit takes the cake in terms of support. Any damage done to a ship when this angel of protection has it's Shield Projection/Repulsion on (You cant miss either really, they're the most obvious special abilities in the game afterSuperweapons) the ENTIRE FLEET under that shield shares damage evenly. So, if you're doing 100 damage to one shipunder a cloak, and their fleet has 100 ships, you will do about 1 damage to each ship. KILL ALL OF THEM FIRST
End of Xer07's quote

Incorrect description of Shield Projection. Shield projection shares damage received by a ship back to the Guardian. It DOES NOT spread the damage across the whole fleet. Any ship in the effect of Shield Projection effectively shares 33% of damage received to itself against the vast Shield Points pool of the Guardian.

 

Good Luck!

Reply #7 Top

I have never played Advent nor have I ever had a prolonged confrontation with a professional Advent player. I think in my first post I warned against my inexperience regarding my posts... :|   Most of what I based that off of was vs. Bots OR off of the vanilla SoaSE instruction manual. :grin:

Xer0 \^/