Now or never... how does the AI work?

from Sins Forums

I was wondering about the following: Often the AI retreats or stops attacking after I fortified my planets. (This seems to be less true in Rebellion, but it is still the trend). It seems like the AI tries to mass forces while not crippeling it's economy. When the AIs attack forces are not strong enough to take a planet, it does (usually) not attack. (Now happens sometimes in Rebellion).

This is stupid because of two things:

1.The AI essentially sits there watching me expanding, making the gap even larger, not smaller.

2.The AI could send in a second wave/replenish forces during the fight, building shipyards nearby. It would make the game more interesting, from my point of view.

 

Note: I usually play on "Hard". I will try a higher difficulty from now on, but I think this is really a logic flaw in the AI even for a lower difficutly. I don't picture a "hard" AI to be an essentially non-aggressive one.

15,584 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

The problem with the AI, as far as i know, the AI tend to lay back and tech up to the best tech like Titan, Novalith, Insurgence, Kodiak and so on before they amass a large fleet to attack you, which cost a lot of money too.


So, if you are the kind of player who prefer to attack early, which fit rebel's style, you pretty much have an upper hand until Novalith and Insurgence comes. Then, you might have problems holding off your own planets.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Not really... by the time the AI finally attacks I usually have 40000/20000/10000 ressources and a fully upgraded starbase with 4 repair docks and hangars in every gravity well. The novalith barely tickles my shields and makes my aux gov go "huh <_< ?" at best.

It usually happens to be some remaing force of the star system which I have choosen to destory last making these futile attempts while I steamroll the other factions.

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

This varies quite a lot in Diplomacy on your play style and AI difficulty level, but yeah the AI doesn't like to attack planets where you have a bigger fleet stored. Neither would a human player, its just a human player would maneuver around your fleet, while the AI isn't as gifted at seeing such openings.

If you want the AI to attack you, retreat your fleet and build a PJI. Then warp it back in once it does. Or just get a fully upgraded starbase and watch it suicide its fleet on a direct attack on it, which I find to be the far bigger problem.

If this is happening while you don't have a fleet present on your front line world in trinity, I've never seen it before and thus can't really comment. With Rebellion the AI just seems more incompetent period, certainly as a result of the game being in beta and getting stuck with some orders.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Try Unfair or especially Cruel. In diplomacy, at least, you won't have to worry about fleet being a bit too small. 

Or, if you do, Try Vicious on a medium sized map, single star. I guarantee those novaliths will become a problem real fast :P  

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I have noticed the AI is, as someone recently described "derpy" still. I usually do a large multi system random map with max number of AI's all on cruel. Occasionally i make an AI my ally, but rarely.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I've seen a few gifted moments in rebellion.

Pirates now seem to take multiple prong attacks on separate planets which sometimes gets them chewed up in detail.  My biggest complaint is that they will forgo my fortifications to take out that one resource transport that just warped in.  Need to stop this. Also the pirates seem to latch onto one planet instead of going after the weakest link.  Also pirate behavior needs to change to no attack if their is no bounty.  They should go another round before attacking and get double the fleet size for the next interval. I would love to have to keep a anti-pirate fleet.  Would help the AI ramp up.

AI poorly positions star bases and defenses and need to focus on stationary flak for them.

AI never coordinates with pirate attacks.

AI fleet seems to go haring off to a rear guard planet often.  The AI DOES change it ships to fit your fleet mix.  I stay balanced usually but notice if I forget Flak frigates pretty quickly.

AI sends too many ships after neutral planets.

AI does not seem to properly use its infrastructure: Refineries and Trade ports.

AI does not focus fire down support ships but seems to get overly concerned with your Capital ships which are hardy when being healed.

AI does not keep the Akkan back where it can use its abilities to best effect and fields too many Kol.  Also seen poor choices for starter ships. A Dunov as their first ship?

AI DOES position the Advent support ships to good effect.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, sleeping AI are boring, but i found something interesting.

I playing on Cruel AI's and when i going to destroy him planet by planet, when destroying his Capital Ships which they are elements of his main fleet without smaler units, he gonna to starting build a normal mixed fleet with smaller units and gonna spam me. He gonna wake up when i destroying him

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Chronobomb, reply 6
Pirates now seem to take multiple prong attacks on separate planets which sometimes gets them chewed up in detail.  My biggest complaint is that they will forgo my fortifications to take out that one resource transport that just warped in.  Need to stop this. Also the pirates seem to latch onto one planet instead of going after the weakest link.  Also pirate behavior needs to change to no attack if their is no bounty.  They should go another round before attacking and get double the fleet size for the next interval. I would love to have to keep a anti-pirate fleet.  Would help the AI ramp up.
End of Chronobomb's quote

With regards to the bolded part, I believe pirates have set roles. Corsairs go after defenses, Reapers go after strike craft and then defenses, Rogues and Cutthroats go after your trade ships, trade ports, and resource asteroids, Pillagers go for the planet.

I do agree that maybe it could use some tweaks though.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Chronobomb, reply 6
AI does not focus fire down support ships but seems to get overly concerned with your Capital ships which are hardy when being healed.
End of Chronobomb's quote

that is not really a problem most ppl will focus on caps first

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
If you want the AI to attack you, retreat your fleet and build a PJI. Then warp it back in once it does. Or just get a fully upgraded starbase and watch it suicide its fleet on a direct attack on it, which I find to be the far bigger problem.
End of GoaFan77's quote

I hadn't thought of that.  Sucker the AI to attack a well where you have a PJI.

Someone mentioned poor placement of starbases--it's AI--it just doesn't have the ability to crunch the strategic variables and determine which wells to build starbases at and exactly where to put them.  I've even seen the AI (and nooby human players) start to build starbases in wells where there is already a large enemy fleet or upgraded Vasari starbase (that can just move in and kill it as it builds).  The AI also has no idea how to deal with enemy starbases nor can it determine when to attack them and when to avoid them.

As always, if you want a smarter opponent and a greater strategic challenge, that's what online multiplayer PvP is for.  Now might not be a bad time for people who are new to online multiplayer to get in on Diplomacy PvP games because many of the pros have migrated to the Beta and I've been noticing a much higher than average percentage of newer people on the Diplomacy server lately.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 10

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3

If you want the AI to attack you, retreat your fleet and build a PJI. Then warp it back in once it does. Or just get a fully upgraded starbase and watch it suicide its fleet on a direct attack on it, which I find to be the far bigger problem.

I hadn't thought of that.  Sucker the AI to attack a well where you have a PJI.

End of DirtySanchezz's quote

It does work, although you sometimes have to wait a bit ...

It's a useful tactic after you and your ally have defeated everybody else and the alliance comes to an end - "Sorry, this venture wasn't working out"

First time I tried this the map had effectively a single phase lane between our two empires, IIRC the only other route was through the Pirate base.

Both myself (Advent) and the AI (TEC) had previously fortified the planets at either end of the lane, and had now moved the bulk of our fleets to defend.

Neither of us wanted to attack as the losses against a fully upgraded starbase, turrets, mines and large fleets would have been very costly.

So, I built a couple of inhibitors and moved the fleet out and then waited.

After the AI had scouted this system a few times, it took the bait and sent in its fleet.