Actually, I believe the Vasari enjoyed easy victories over the humans in the beginning.  After the TEC was formed, and they began grinding the industrial machine into war mode, the TEC were able to halt the Vasari advance, and even retake some of their lost worlds.  The Advent entered the war in direct conflict with the TEC, the lore is pretty vague about how they came into direct conflict with the Vasari.  My guess is that paranoia regarding a potential new threat didn't help, and hostilities grew from there.

Did you just say, "fringe science"!?

Lol, does saying that cause you to appear?!

Well, I might not have identified what I meant exactly... obviously, the Advent aren't real, so any of their methodology is not science in any way.

****Warning: Interesting and deep conversations to follow.... Read at your own risk****

What I was getting at was that there are people with ideas that appear to follow the scientific method, they believe they are performing 'good science', but they are not.  

The difference is hard to define, so I hope I can communicate this properly: 'good science' does involve running down some wacky ideas just to rule them out, 'bad science' believes in a wacky idea even when there is no convincing evidence for it. Yet, there are 'good' ideas that we don't have convincing evidence for; such as a difference in parity violation in antimatter.
Antimatter is not very common in the universe. However, something like the Big bang should have made things fairly uniform (think of an explosion; it's fairly symmetric and there's even amounts of stuff everywhere). We have good evidence for the Big Bang. We have good evidence for the uniformity of the Big Bang. The trouble comes when we ask why there is more matter than antimatter.

The current theory is that antimatter somehow behaves differently than matter, somehow causing matter to win the matter/antimatter battle (if you didn't know, they cancel each other out). The believed mechanism for this is a difference in the way parity is violated (it's a whole thing to go into what the heck 'parity violation' is/means, but it's not entirely relevant to my point here).

There now is, if memory serves, some evidence for a difference between matter/antimatter parity violations, though it is not very thorough (LHC only just succeeded in producing testable amounts of anti-atoms, much less released test data). However, I would not be surprised to see this theory in text books or relied apon for other theories to the extent you would group it with the 'good science', though there is not a lot of direct evidence for it at this time. There is circumstantial evidence, sure. On the other hand, if we were to rewind quite a few years and put this idea forward, it would be classified as 'fringe science' because there would be less circumstantial evidence and no good reason to think it's anymore true than anything else. Only if we could bring with us evidence to eliminate most of the other ideas could we 'be geniuses' by presenting such an idea.

There's another direction I was going with the 'fringe science' comment as well, which is fairly straightforward: Responsibility. I think the Advent's version of science does involve experimentation, however, it is at the risk of individuals in their society. So, maybe an Advent comes up with a new implant that should amplify telekinetic powers. Instead of trying it out in a lab, she finds some young Advent willing to try it out in the hopes that they will get an advantage over other Advent. Well, guess what? It doesn't work as advertised, underpowered. Well, the scientist makes some tweaks, and after finding another young Advent, tries it out and their head explodes.... overpowered. So, progress can be made, but there's no responsibility on the part of the scientist for the consequences of their actions.

While I don't 100% disagree with you, I certainly object. I do not like how much influence corporations have on what gets developed and researched... However, the influence of corporations is hardly limited to science. Also, the pioneering days of science are over; what's left now takes a lot of time and money to do, so funds have to be more concentrated, which means the corporations have more influence. Lastly, I think proper education would greatly reduce the misdirected/improper science in a few ways:

• better fact checking and rigor means more useful stuff gets passed along and it's presented in a way that makes it clear what the evidence shows
• better general education means more people understand what research is about, realize the importance, and will do what it takes to financially support it
• better general education means more people see through crazy things like "Pizza is the cure for cancer", and the fact bar is then raised.

That is nothing but a fantasy, and I've told you that before. Science is a step by step progression. the person who found the last step is by no means any greater than those that made the steps before. It's like working on a puzzle. The last piece is really no more important to the completed puzzle than those before it. But for some reason, we feel that final piece is what did it, and forget about the pieces from earlier.

so, after the walls of text we find the only boogie-men chasing after the Vasari is us?

This is interesting and makes sense. Personally i would prefer if the Vasari Loyalists stayed as playable faction for Sins 2 - meant as the story wont be set as far in the future, when they are supposed to be gone. My motive is selfish, i just like them. like their Vorastra titan, would hate to see them removed. Actually, i could envision them to be even more mobile - like instead of planet starting the Titan from the beginning, obviously not armed... anyway your line of thinking on this matter makes sense indeed.

Then the other factions, i could see one combined faction from TL, VR and AR - they would have their own completely new and unique shipdesigns, combine techs of the original races (dual SBs, phase gates, moving SBs, unit ressurection) and have some new stuff on top of it, They would be the balanced, well-rounded race, perhaps with accent on defense predominantly.  Then i would keep Tec Rebels, Advent Loyalists and as i said Vasari Loyalists - these factions to represent the "pure"  3 original races, And finally the "Threat" - it could be either fifth playable race or it could be NPC non-playable faction, having some relation to some of the alternative victory conditions - like  todefeat them, hold off their attacks for some time to be victorious - IIRC in Star Trek Birth of the Federation you could beat the Borg and this was one of the victory conditions...something along these lines...

my point is that in itself is refinement. the first steam turbine is a continuation of the technology in windmills which have been around forever. And those are probably a continuation from sail technology. I mean, I guess the sail is a 'root' technology of sorts, but even then, it seems to me that was probably someone watching something blow in the wind and trying to recreate it, then further refinements found it to be useful for moving things. Continuous refinement.

That is an opinion based off your perspective. I consistently cast doubt on your views and give reasons why I think that is the case, I do not see as much reasoning reciprocated by you. However, I'm sure you think the same thing. Even if you did, since doubt is the hallmark of science, you could reason that I'm a 'true believer' because I doubt so many things.

As an example of our differing views, I read your links and came to the opposite conclusion. I honestly would spell out why I think that, but I just spent a lot of time doing something similar to another of your posts on another page and don't have the time.

Sinperium admit it! u dont know whos chasing the vasari... the only hint i am aware of so far is on the rebel titan and that might even be a glitch or it might be coincidental ... either-way i dont think u know...

hahaha  unbelievable! prove that you know 

I agree that the Unity's mental resources and revenge drive could develop the technology they use, given the 10,000 years they've had to do it in. It's not the tech itself that caught my attention, but their overpowering desire to kill off the TEC. Even considering their exile, it seems much more reasonable to just go build a civilization somewhere else than to dedicate your entire population to annihilation those who wronged you.

My point was, something is corrupting the Unity, or else the rebels wouldn't be able to alter the unity in the way they have. It may very well be their overpowering desire for revenge that's doing it, but it just seems a little too convenient for whatever's chasing the Vasari to be unrelated.

If it can drive the entire Vasari Dark Armada insane with mortal terror, it doesn't seem like it'd be too difficult for it to influence the psychic collective of the Advent.

If you've ever explored the Orion's Arm universe, you're probably awash with a lot of ideas that could fit within Sins as far as galactic super-dangers are concerned: (www.orionsarm.com) Space is just filled with things that could force your civilization into extinction, and asteroid and comet impacts are not some of them, being only planetary-scale disasters. When you consider how large the Vasari race probably is, and how much larger it was before they fled, whatever put them on the run must have been truly terrible. It obviously wasn't just a local event, as it spread rapidly and aggressively, and threatened their entire species. It still follows them. This puts a few different horrible things the Vasari could be running from to mind.

Here are some:

There are uncontrollable ever-expanding self-repairing nanite swarms that consume entire star systems of resources and leave that section of space an empty death trap. If the swarm develops intelligence it may move into interstellar space and become a galactic threat. They are generally created by biologicals for various benign purposes, or sometimes for warfare. On occasion they have escaped control of their creators and the result is truly terrifying. Humanity almost met its end to one of these, late in the interplanetary age, and was only saved due to the intervention of a recently-transcended archailect: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=4ad4d58752948)

There are things like Autowars, which are used often in warfare: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=45eb1ea444972) Automated self-replicating super-intelligent warship factories that endlessly pump out highly-advanced warships into massive armadas designed to destroy whatever their creators designed them to. In some cases the autowar fleets have gone rogue, and like the runaway nanite swarms have managed to wreck extensive havoc before being subdued. A few times in galactic history they managed to destroy their creators: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4b6d2e7446c5a)

The Dawn Hunters are an example of a supposed legendary autowar fleet that destroyed its creator civilization millions of years ago and still exists as a blight upon the galaxy, suspected of having wiped out numerous intelligent civilizations over the past several million years. According to the theory they are still lurking in the galaxy, somewhere near Terragen space: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=480135af5ac81)

The Hedrile: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/48013e3b67f3e) A strange alien artifact that is billions of years old, supposedly contains a wormhole that leads to another universe, and has led to the disappearance of several transcendent AIs that attempted to plumb its depths. Built by an ancient civilization which no longer exists, either because they went through it and could not come back, or because whatever they connected it to came through and destroyed them.

The Omicron Hygeras Object: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4a59d19f81fed) A 262 kilometer long object that appears to be of extragalactic origin, and is approximately 400 million years old. Emits heavy radiation, and is surrounded by powerful magnetic and gravitational fields. It orbits a star that once was home to an interstellar race that subsequently vanished upon the object's arrival. It has defied all attempts at either being explored, occupied, or demolished, and has resulted in the deaths of thousands of would-be explorers, archaeologists, and even some transcendent AIs.

The Iahi Daon Empire: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/48fa48fb5a4ae) Ancient extinct civilization of which numerous dead ark ships have been discovered floating in interstellar space. Similar to the Vasari in that they hastily fled their homeworld and most occupied systems 7,233,000 years ago, fleeing something unknown. Unlike the Vasari the Iahi Daon did not escape their menace, and died out without being able to restore their empire.

There are a lot more possibilities I could list, all of them tantalizing and fittable within the Sins cosmology, since we know almost nothing about what the Threat could be. I hope it is something fantastic, but it will probable be something pretty mundane, like a nanite swarm.

I'll leave you with this, a picture of the Orion's Arm galaxy and the location of its various high-energy civilizations: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=48028a7f74e6d) Notice that the right half of the galaxy has almost no detectable energy emissions. Why is that section of the galaxy seemingly devoid of technologically advanced life while the rest of the galaxy is not? When I am playing Sins, I often imagine that the Vasari must hail from that part of the galaxy, and whatever is chasing them has consumed everything there. Some terrifying thing must have caused the right half of the Milky Way in the Orion's Arm universe to die millions of years ago. I wonder if it is the same thing that is chasing the Vasari? Did the Vasari build something like the Hedrile, and a cosmic terror came through? Did a weapon of utterly MASS destruction like the Omicron Hygeras Artifact arrive from another galaxy? Did the Vasari meet an impossibly powerful ancient menace left over from a previous civilization, like the Dawn Hunters? Did the Vasari create an autowar fleet they lost control of, or a was there a nanodisaster they never subdued?

It's fun speculating.

ok to prove my point here its up to u guys if u agree:

Poll:

a ) is axxo right?

b ) is axxo Really right?

c ) All the above.

p.s. there is no "D"

     any concerns regarding axxo's "rightness" please email  support@stardock.com

key:                    

ALL THE ABOVE