Pirate Mercenaries/Neutrals - Screwing Up My Fleet Cap

Too bad there's not a mass scuttle button.  I'm not sure if you could salvage any resources from the surplus ships, but that'd at least free up some fleet supply.

Aaahoyyy there, capt´n!  

Yeah both of the free ship Rebel abilities need some work. Both of these seem better suited to a sort of commander ability like in C&C Generals or Battle for Middle Earth, where the player can periodically use their effects at any location they want, and is independent of any particular units or structures. Of course Sins isn't set up to have that kind of thing, so at the least perhaps tie it into some sort of invulnerable ship or structure at your homeworld, that can then cast an ability on a friendly planet that summons the extra units.

Fixed it for you.

And yes, it is annoying to those of us that like precises fleet compositions. A button that would allow us to summon them and direct where they go (aka owned planets not enemies) would be nice.

I would suggest adding some sort of beacon tactical building that has to be built to call in pirate and rebel support. I wouldn't mind the randomeness so lang as I don't end up with tons of pillagers and barely anything else (Yes, that did happen). If I don't want a stream of ships coming in I deactivate autocast and am done. This also gives me chance to redirect those pesky ships to a gathering point.

i you dont like them scuttle them for free monies. >_<

possible solutions:

1. Create weaker versions of the existing pirate vessels and make them very low fleet supply -gotta adjust what determines how many pirate ships you get, but might keep your fleet supply from being clogged with pirate vessels to the point you can't field your own.
   
   
2. Could also give research item that boosts fleet supply, "Pirate Command Network", with 30% more fleet supply or incorporate it into whatever permits the pirates to join your fleet.

I THINK scuttled ships replenish too.

I could see a button under the Pirate tab for 'reinforcements' that's usable with every pirate attack cooldown. I would just like to direct hem, that's all.

also, weirdness with neutrals.  I have researched the tech to make all neutrals friendly to me.  But after I have taken their system and they are still there, they don't do anything.  I have also gone into enemy planets and seen the neutrals there, but they also don't do anything.  Perhaps the other faction has also researched neutrals.  I don't know.  seems kinda weird.

Just to explain: any tec rebel can research that neutral factions don't attack them anymore (all "white" ships). However this is a different research from the "gain reinforcements through pirates/rebel forces" that gives you control over their ships.

The white ships will simply treat you as an ally and leave you alone, nothing more. This is very helpful if the enemy is a loyalist and sends you insurgents, as they just arrive at your gravity well but don't attack you. In addtion they will attack the Tec loyalist (and in later version of the game, Vasari and Advent that come visit your planet).

However if your enemy is a Rebel as well and has researched the same uprade he is treatened as friendly by those ships as well. This means if you both are Rebel players you just end up stacking each others' planets with neutral ships. It also means that as a Loyalist you should think twice about researching those insurgent attacks at tier 8.

I agree with this. If your playing on a really large map its a serious pain in the ass to hunt down where they spawned and either get them to the front lines, or scuttle them one by one. There needs to be a way to turn it on and off. Also having neutral planets allied with you is more trouble than its worth since you cant take over the planet and them controlling it does nothing for you

As for that I've been thinking that it would be cool if Rebels could get a new research that unlocks a new ability for their Colony frigate:

Annexation - A neutral planet is bribed into joining the cause, providing their equipment to the player.

This ability would give you the planet, it's structures and surrounding fleet, as well as keep it's current level of structural research (logistic/tactical slots, planet HP etc...) for a price proportional to what you gain (meaning this ability would cost a small fortune in credits to use).

This ability would only work on "normal" neutral worlds (regular planets that are neutral and colonized for whatever reason) and pirate bases, but not on the Vasari Planet. This ability would make it fully possible to play future selfmade maps and campaigns with the Rebels as faction without the mapmaker having to worry about it getting unplayable by the player researching the wrong subject. I also think it's a quite elegant and fitting solution for the TEC.

As for the Vasari world, isn't it stated in the bug traking sticky that this is being worked on/solved internally?

Yes but the cause is the same, they're both essentially nuetral worlds.

I also don't think the game code supports your anexxattion ability having a scaling cot, but the ida that you could park a colony ship in a grav well and have it take over all the nuetral objects there isn't a bad one if the cost was right. Would help clear away the results of the insurgancy ability and get those nuetral colonies though the artifact planet would probably have to be tagged as not efected by it.

I do find it pretty annoying as the pirate ships tend to take up a lot of my supplies for cap ships. I think it needs some sort of ability to summon them, similar to Vasari's Dark Fleet at a fixed location. It can be annoying to find every stray pirate ship if you have 40 planets.

For the insurgence ability, i think there should be a limit on how many insurgent to be spawned on a single planet. I saw someone's capital planet has more than 100 insurgent ships which can be a pain for any faction other than loyalist to fight them.

Why not jsut suicide the fleet on a SB? very efficient. anyway with this tool you shoudl always have a at least two fronts of feed troops just busting undefended well. Just skip Sb in well and go for the next juicy target.

You can arrass the opponent so much he can only run from one side of is map to the other and JOY you have a new free army to send back at this 1st site juste as he leaves to go at the 2nd.

Then your main 3rd force, with cap and those nice ships you made, hits him in the face in antoher undefended well!

It's nice being a rebel.

Maybe this has been overlooked ... but why not limit the rate of aggregation of non-upgradable 'pirate' ships you get ... and have them cost 0 fleet supply?

Question here: Do you guys always research the rebel/pirate backups? Cause to me those two are very situational researches. I either use them "earlygame" for quick and hard strickes, in which case I want them to quickly fill my fleet supply (and refill it after they are lost), or I use them lategame when I cannot be arsed to produce frigates manually anymore and just have them fill up my lines (at which point i usually have all important ships produced in adequate numbers).

Unless it's one of those situations (or if I need defense ships really desperately) I just don't research those subjects .It's not like I have to just cause they are there...

The only real problems I have with the rebel/pirate support and the neutral ship ceasefire are the ones I stated before, namely the fact you cannot control where rebels end up (yay for playing on random huge multi or any system with more than four stars) and the fact that neutral planets cannot be captured after the research (and the fact neutrals clog up your gravwell when too many enemy loyalists spam you with insurgents).

 Edit: Don't think making the rebels/pirates cost 0 supply would be a smart move. Even if the firgs were really shitty, if the research was to keep any value the number and frequency of the ships appearing would mean you'd be able to actively outnumber a non tec rebel player at any time of the game, which doesn't seem to be a good idea to me...

Cut their Health, Shields, & Damage by 50%, or down to 20% upgradable to 50% via research?

"Batt'n down the hatches, and fir' up the phase drives!"