should titan build speed really be affected by game "build speed" constant?

from Sins Forums

I've been doing a bit of thinking on this issue and have been wondering whether titan builds times should be exempt by the "build speed" game-speed-constant.

 

One of the main counters to titan-rushes is supposed to be the player not rushing a titan's ability to use their superior fleet to attack and blow up the foundry before the titan is done when they see the message warning them that their opponent is working on a  titan.  Because none of the current gamespeed constants really improve ship DPS(and frankly they shouldn't as that would cut down o ntime for strategic decision making), and consequently a given fleet requiring the same amount of time to kill the foundry(as well as any defenders that can't be ignored and need to be wiped out before the foundry) as it would on a lower game-speed.  As a result on faster game speeds players have a smaller window of opportunity to accomplish the same goal encessary to prevent the titan from being completed.

 

Sure, ship speed can be upped, but in all honesty you should have a fairly local fleet near the enemy by the time they start working on a  titan regardless of game speed.  The real time-consuming part of the raid that takes time is actually killing the foundry(and possibly defenders as mentioned above).

 

Seems to me this is going to make balancing titans even more difficult as their counterability varies based on game settings.  Anyway, please post your own thoughts on the matter, I'd love to get the perspective of other players.

4,624 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Technically, if ships build at a faster rate, shouldn't you have a slightly larger fleet as well?

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SG23, reply 1
Technically, if ships build at a faster rate, shouldn't you have a slightly larger fleet as well?
End of SG23's quote

 

your fleet is still gated by income and supply limits.  And if income is also set to fast, the titan will be made at a proportionately faster rate.

 

But in all honesty hitting supply cap before the enemy starts work on the titan is easy(after all the opponent has had time to gather 13k+ credits+crystal/metal, research 4 research topics, and build a titan foundry).  The big difference is that because multiple frigate factories can be pumping out frigates every 20-30 seconds, the major restriction on frigate production usually isn't production speed but rather resource and supply limitations(titan production speed is more of a gating feature because of the long production time coupled with the fact that it can't be sped up by building multiple foundries).

 

The only time the improved production speed may help counter a titan rush is if you for some reason have to produce a fleet to attack the foundry(rather then already having an active fleet), which is essentially you getting caught with your pants down anyway(if by the time an opponent has enough for a titan you don't have a good standing fleet you should be vulnerable to a rush).

 

I'll concede you may have an couple ships for the assault sometime if you were slow producing a fleet or have a high fleet supply, but honestly you'd need enough extra ships to increase your fleet's total firepower by about 26% to make up for the shorter window of opportunity and have the same chance of destroying the foundry before the titan rolls out.   But again, in the time it takes the opponent to gather all those resources, you had ample time to have maxed out your fleet supply long before the opponent started building the titan.  With unlimited resources and supply you would be right- but for simply building a large fleet supply/resource costs are much more a an inhibiting factor then production time.  By contrast the production time of a titan is very significant As it is meant to be a time of great vulnerability against opponent who have simply built a large fleet.

 

In point of fact this is probably part of a larger pattern: improve production speeds in general are a greater advantage to the defending player then the attacker(after all their new units start closer to the front and have defenses to hide behind until there are enough of them to group up).  Countering titan Rushes is however one of the most extreme examples due to the nature of titans.

 

 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Hmm good idea.

imo, if income is set to fast the titan should be made at a SLOWER rate, to give players more time so they don't have to worry about titan rushing as much...Titans shouldn't be able to counter early pressure unless the player has a TON of early feed.  Why? Because early attacks are fun, and they should be effective if a player executes them correctly, and the defender fails to defend properly... They are easy enough to fend off if you counter properly, forcing that early temporary stalemate for a second wave of expansion, research, fleet/eco buildup...etc.

Making the game speed(not just resource speed) determine the length of titan production would be a great way to balance the game for all play types.  I agree that titans are still built too early for early pressure to really take them out.  Its so easy to plunk down 2 repair facilities + TEC healing upgrade and some turrets around your titan to defend it while it is in production. This really adds to the survivability of the titan factory, making it difficult to kill with a rushing fleet.  If you have a lot of LRM your opponent just needs a few flak ships (10+) to start thinning your ships while you are on the assault...