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TheEvidence
TheEvidence
Join Date 01/2010
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[Balance vs AI] Research Victory Too Easy for AIs?

April 5, 2012 12:37:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The harder AIs seem to have far too easy a time obtaining the research victory. I think this is probably because they get a bonus to the rate at which things are researched. I was playing in a Cruel FFA and when I clocked the AI's research rate vs mine it was going about twice as fast (and I was playing as Advent with their research bonus maxed out).

 

Should the Research Victory item be exempt from AI research rate bonuses?

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MariusTrones
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #1 April 11, 2012 12:30:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Research Victory is too easy as it is. Should be connected to "having researched all" instead.

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davidwmiller
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #2 April 11, 2012 5:34:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Simple solution here, don't enable research victory when playing against AIs you know you can't out-research. No sense trying to argue balance when discussing AI's specifically designed not to be balanced.

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TheEvidence
TheEvidence
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #3 April 11, 2012 12:19:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting davidabc66,
reply 2
Simple solution here, don't enable research victory when playing against AIs you know you can't out-research. No sense trying to argue balance when discussing AI's specifically designed not to be balanced.

Obviously I disagree, or I wouldn't have made the thread.

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sareth01
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #4 April 11, 2012 1:27:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Research victory should require players to acquire artifacts.

When it is enable it guarantees 2-5 artifacts in game via planetary exploration.

Opponents must hold a different amount of artifact planets depending upon the game size.

These artifacts are required for different stages of research completion, Just like how titans are built with their research.

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TheEvidence
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #5 April 11, 2012 1:42:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
reply 4
These artifacts are required for different stages of research completion, Just like how titans are built with their research.

 

I like this idea. Right now it's possible to slow down a player gunning for a research victory by taking out research labs, but with a reasonable number of planets it's easy to overbuild on those... artifacts on the other hand mean you need to hold specific planets AND everyone knows where the artifacts are...

 

Repossession on the ALT might make it a bit /too/ easy to deny, but I think this approach has potential.

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SithLordAJ
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #6 April 11, 2012 1:54:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thats not a 'research victory' though... That's more like that wonder victory others have discussed.

Not that it's a bad idea... I would very much be up for something of that nature.

As for what options there are right now.... turn down the victory speed.

Why the AI is going so fast on the research victory isnt due to a bonus to research speed (i dont think they have that), but more due to the fact that they have loads of cash to waste. And then it can go down 4 trees at once queuing things.

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TheEvidence
Join Date 01/2010
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Reply #7 April 12, 2012 12:09:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SithLordAJ,
reply 6
Thats not a 'research victory' though... That's more like that wonder victory others have discussed.

Not that it's a bad idea... I would very much be up for something of that nature.

As for what options there are right now.... turn down the victory speed.

Why the AI is going so fast on the research victory isnt due to a bonus to research speed (i dont think they have that), but more due to the fact that they have loads of cash to waste. And then it can go down 4 trees at once queuing things.

 

Well, my issue was the actual speed they complete the research at, not so much being able to start the research "too early". It's supposed to take 900+ seconds but they were doing it in ~450 or so. The thing is in AI matches it always seems to be the AI farthest from me that starts the research and I just can't get forces in to their empire to disrupt them in time.

 

I really like the victory condition in principle for SP, since it means the player has to drop everything and tackle one empire or another... kind of like a "super mission". It provides a challenge, but with the research speed bonus for the harder AIs it just goes too fast. I could turn down the AI, but then it's just not any fun at other stages of the game...

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bilun
Join Date 02/2012
+36
Reply #8 April 12, 2012 12:33:51 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I haven't played a game with the research victory yet.  Does it give all other players a warning when someone starts the research like it does when people start on titans? If not then it should, so that everyone else knows it's time to start busting labs.

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MariusTrones
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #9 April 12, 2012 2:07:19 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah you have some icons on the right side panel of the screen. You see a percentage going from 0 to 100. Also you got some 2500 seconds to do stop the AI by destroying their research stations. (Not entirely sure about how many seconds)

 

BTW. Do you get a message when AI/people start building their TItans? I thought it was only when they had built it?

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ChaosMaster130
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #10 April 12, 2012 4:08:12 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Its supposed too tell you when they start building one I think.

Right now though it only tells you when they finish building one though

Hope its in the works.

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