5th hour on beta

from Sins Forums

So ive been playing the beta for quite a bit now and I have to say I do like the new subfactions, I am not disappointed in the game exactly. I am however disappointed in the fact that it seems more time was spent on the TEC then the Advent. And it makes me sad :c

Anyways im not going to rant to stardock about how they are TEC biased which most likely is not true. But instead im just going to outline somethings before the Beta as done because thats what we beta testers are here for.

 

  • The Tech Tree: I said this in another one of my threads but if you look at the Advent's tech tree and then look at the TEC Tech Tree. The Advents is almost completely uninspired. The TEC loyalist get an upgrade in which they are allowed to build two starbases I would have to say that the Loyalist however are not as bad as the Rebel TEC when it comes to this issue however. The TEC rebels gets Truce amongst Rogues letting pirates and neutrals become allied with them, Pirate Merc. allows you to call in pirates to join your army, and then Liberated Resistence periodically gets you reinforcements. You FEEL that you are getting all of these benefits and they are cool benefits.

    But then lets look at the Advent, the Rebels have almost nothing except for a bunch of passives. Return of the Fallen and Reanimation are cool abilities but I do not actually ever see it happen. Its not noticeable at all and I don't feel rewarded for upgrading it. I do not feel epic at all for upgrading any of these abilities. Now the Advent Loyalist I don't think suffer from it as much as the rebels do. They have Global Unity which is pretty noticeable, but that is pretty much it the Advent Loyalist I have not gone into to much experimentation with.
  • Capital Ships: The same thing happens with the new capital ships. Im not talking about balance here so keep this in mind when reading this. The new Corsev capital ship brings in a new mechanic to the game which is boarding, you board a ship and can do multiple things with it. But its a new mechanic, the Discord has a synergy with its Q and W but does not actually have any new mechanics its just an AoE armor lower, and damage. Its ultimate is probably its only saving grace in a way.

 

Thats just my main problems I have with the game, I do enjoy it but I just feel that the Advent lack inspiration and could use something to show off to the enemy.

9,641 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I agree in that the human scum gets most of the love.
The Advent Rebel's Reanimation and the like are broken, to my knowledge. What angers me the most is that Stardock had the nerve to nurf the Advent Capital ships even more so. Us Advent players are highly dependent on the synergies that our capital ships give us, and now that those same abilities are not as powerful as they once were, Advent players are going to struggle to keep up with players using different factions.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I'd have to agree, having now finished a full game as both AI factions, they feel about the same, and also about the same as they were before. Sure, a few small things stand out, but far too much of what is changed is, while possibly significant for those super attentive to balance and from a number crunchers point of view, I find to be too passive to change the feel of either faction, especially the Loyalists.

Basically, my opinion is that too much of what is unique to either faction takes cares of itself, not really having enough of a direct impact on what the player is doing to really change all that much for the majority of a game.

With the TEC this isn't really the case, everything about the Loyalists comes off as super-duper fortifiers, and the Rebels the opposite, crazy berserkers making friends with pirates and plundering worlds. With the Advent, both factions just feel like Advent 2.0 and it pretty much stops there.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting davidabc66, reply 2
I'd have to agree, having now finished a full game as both AI factions, they fell about the same, and also about the same as they were before. Sure, a few small things stand out, but far too much of what is changed is, while possibly significant for those super attentive to balance and from a number crunchers point of view, I find to be too passive to change the feel of either faction, especially the Loyalists.

Basically, my opinion is that too much of what is unique to either faction takes cares of itself, not really having enough of a direct impact on what the player is doing to really change all that much for the majority of a game.

With the TEC this isn't really the case, everything about the Loyalists comes off as super-duper fortifiers, and the Rebels the opposite, crazy berserkers making friends with pirates and plundering worlds. With the Advent, both factions just feel like Advent 2.0 and it pretty much stops there.
End of davidabc66's quote

 

You pretty much got exactly what I said. The problem lies in the Advent themselves, they are hardly different from each other. The Loyalist rely on their culture or at least that is their niche. And the rebels rely on their Resurrection but their is almost no way to actually tell the difference. I was thinking they should skin the vessels differently keep the Loyalist Advent for the most part the same, but make the Rebel Advent have alot of the textures from their titan on their standard ships. Now visually they are different.

 

Then gameplay wise make the Advent rebels be more about actual sacrifice for gain. Fix the LRF spam against the advent earlygame by making rebel Disciples have some ability to replace steal antimatter and maybe have a ability akin to the red button. Change the actual gameplay.

 

I just hope they do something because the advent are so bland right now.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting destructor0409, reply 4
I too have noticed that advent do not seem to be quite as powerful as they were in trinity.
End of destructor0409's quote

They were already the worst race. And their new capitalship absolutely murders what the TEC got.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

A progen + discord combo actually gives the Advent a really good early game strategy with their capitals.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I was pretty bored with the new Advent stuff in the inadvertent "sneak peak", I was hoping it was just because they weren't ready yet but it doesn't sound like that's the case. I think all their new stuff (I played Loyalist) was pretty bland and I ended up playing them exactly like I had in Trinity.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 5

Quoting destructor0409, reply 4I too have noticed that advent do not seem to be quite as powerful as they were in trinity.

They were already the worst race. And their new capitalship absolutely murders what the TEC got.
End of GoaFan77's quote
Quoting Rovert10, reply 6
A progen + discord combo actually gives the Advent a really good early game strategy with their capitals.
End of Rovert10's quote

 

Just remember I said nothing about balance with the new caps. Just that they got the nice new mechanics. What exactly do you get on the discord for the early game? Max first what?

 

Quoting goodgimp, reply 7
I was pretty bored with the new Advent stuff in the inadvertent "sneak peak", I was hoping it was just because they weren't ready yet but it doesn't sound like that's the case. I think all their new stuff (I played Loyalist) was pretty bland and I ended up playing them exactly like I had in Trinity.
End of goodgimp's quote

 

We just got a bunch of passive abilities that are not that good. Return of the Fallen is unnoticeable and not nearly as powerful when compared to Truce Among Rogues.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Both Advent factions have no new defensive nor diplomatic techs.

It would be nice for the Advent rebels to have some new diplomatic techs, as they would be more inclined to cooperate with other races.

The Advent loyalists probably should get some extra defensive techs as they would be unwilling to accept any accord with another race/faction.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting NewHorizons, reply 9
Both Advent factions have no new defensive nor diplomatic techs.

It would be nice for the Advent rebels to have some new diplomatic techs, as they would be more inclined to cooperate with other races.

The Advent loyalists probably should get some extra defensive techs as they would be unwilling to accept any accord with another race/faction.
End of NewHorizons's quote

I think you have it backwards... Loyalists want people to join the unity the rebels feel the unity is corrupt so they want to "purify it"

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting sporemaster, reply 10

Quoting NewHorizons, reply 9Both Advent factions have no new defensive nor diplomatic techs.

It would be nice for the Advent rebels to have some new diplomatic techs, as they would be more inclined to cooperate with other races.

The Advent loyalists probably should get some extra defensive techs as they would be unwilling to accept any accord with another race/faction.

I think you have it backwards... Loyalists want people to join the unity the rebels feel the unity is corrupt so they want to "purify it"
End of sporemaster's quote

 

Either way I think he is correct in their needs to be a difference in the Advents tech trees. Security and Diplomacy were not touched. I have suggested it before but moving Augmented Defense Grid, Phase Jump Inhibitor, and Hardened Cities tech to the security tree would fix this problem.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

The Advent loyalists seek to prosecute their vengeance on the TEC and assimilate any rival population into the Unity.

That's hardly cooperation with other factions, as their titan says: "They will join us or die!" - not very diplomatic language.

I see the loyalist policy as one of unyielding conquest with few compromises with other races.

While their fleet is subjugating one part of the galaxy, other factions would take the opportunity to attack their empire somewhere else, hence the suggestion for new defensive techs.

The description for the rebels is a little ambiguous "Suspecting that a corruptive influence within the Unity has influenced their race, the Advent Rebels seek to purge this unseen enemy to restore the Unity to its proper path."

It could be interpreted as self examination to put the Unity back on an enlightened track or as a call to lash out in the hope of defeating the "unseen enemy".

I took the former interpretation where the "unseen enemy" could be something like a loyalist 5th column within the rebel faction which would need to be purged.

Unlike the loyalists, revenge upon the TEC is no longer seems a high priority for the rebels, which would allow them to eventually respect and work with other races.

Hence why I suggested some goodies for their diplomacy tree.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 11
I have suggested it before but moving Augmented Defense Grid, Phase Jump Inhibitor, and Hardened Cities tech to the security tree would fix this problem.
End of MayallCommunion's quote

That may only be a partial solution, it would free up space in the Harmony tree which is now getting a bit crowded.

I was thinking of new technologies.

Not a serious suggestion but, for example, loyalists could research a tech that grants an x% chance of Mass Disorientation converting hostile frigates/cruisers to their side.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 8

ust remember I said nothing about balance with the new caps. Just that they got the nice new mechanics. What exactly do you get on the discord for the early game? Max first what?
End of MayallCommunion's quote

Fracture and Lethargy, I see very little point in putting points into Scream honestly unless you need a quick fire interrupt on a channeling ability (ie. Marza Barrage), in which case one point would suffice.

The synergy between the Progenitor and Discord is par excellence.

Lethargy reduces incoming damage by delaying weapon fire and abilities while Shield Regenerate repairs any damage already taken.

Fracture increases the damage that the enemy ships take to their hull, which for 2/3 races' is their hp buffer, combine it with Malice and multi-firing ships like the Defense Vessels and Illuminators and you have a party.

Go ahead and throw in the Discord's ultimate and the enemy are going to pay for every allied ship that they manage to bring down. For that purpose alone, it's even more appealing for the Rebels to deploy.