Titans don't loose their level when killed » Forum Post by reinforcedpanda

first off sry for the blow up just had a rough day

second i dont think a game should be balanced based just on MP. it should be balanced on both SP and MP ans yes the ai is messed up atm it should still be on both

third the exp excuse is bull lol that same could be said to let caps keep their lvls as well which shouldnt be done just trying to make a point

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting martox1,

reply 51

third the exp excuse is bull lol that same could be said to let caps keep their lvls as well which shouldnt be done just trying to make a point

Making caps keep their levels now, just to have them the same as Titans, would require a considerable change in the game itself.

First, you've only got one Titan, but 14 other capital ships. Keeping track of every single individual ship and reviving the one you want at the right levels is one matter entirely.

Second, there are techs in all three races to allow further cap levels to be purchased ( raise from 2 to 3 ) which would need to be removed and replaced by something else.

Finally, this one's specific to the Advent: Mass Trascendance, which affects low level capital ships, would hardly be worth its last-tier-upgrade cost since it could only work at best on twelve ships ( it's unlikely you'll get that far in the upgrade tree with only one cap ).

Plus, the Progenitor's ultimate ability, Ressurection, would also have to be removed, and replaced with something else.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting martox1,

reply 51

first off sry for the blow up just had a rough day

second i dont think a game should be balanced based just on MP. it should be balanced on both SP and MP ans yes the ai is messed up atm it should still be on both

third the exp excuse is bull lol that same could be said to let caps keep their lvls as well which shouldnt be done just trying to make a point

Its ok we all have rough days.

As hard as this is going to take, the game is not balanced around single player because their is no imbalance in single player.. Almost any strategy can actually beat the AI. And MP is a far more important investment.

And as for the Capital Ships a game is not actually decided by a capital ship however capital ships are, I use this lightly, far more expendable than a titan.

Successfully updated karma reason!

This is the reason the titans should be a game breaker/ender. If you lose this ship its over. Just like the flagship.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm of the opinion that everyone's putting too much into titan levels and scaling, where level 1 is pathetic but level 4 is an unstoppable juggernaut you can't hope to counter. It's not like capital ships were ever scaling to the point where a level 6 Sova was untouchable and you might as well call it gg there, because that'd be damn stupid, and the current implementation of titans isn't much better, especially considering how quickly they can be deployed currently.

I suggest that Titans receive a buff to 30-40% stronger at level one and a corresponding nerf to the per-level increases such that they end up still being a serious threat, yet losing a titan doesn't mean that your opponent's now higher level titan is nigh unstoppable because of a few levels, and would also remove the complete lack of consequence to losing a titan that is in game at the moment.

As it is right now losing capital ships is worse, because at least the experience they had is lost when they die, while you can throw titans at whatever just to gain experience, essentially making the death of your titan trivial by comparison.

The risk of losing all of the experience gained would also make frigate fleets a more viable method, as throwing a titan at a large frigate fleet would be far more dangerous and you'd have much more to lose, rather than calling said fleet free xp and suiciding your titan on it to make it stronger.

Obviously the advent titan's level 6 ability would need to be changed accordingly. For instance, maybe make it a short duration invulnerability when at less than 5% health/shields such that the titan can use it's friendly ship sacrifice ability to regain health/shields and get back into the fight, so making it far tougher to take down as intended but removing the fact that it currently has to die to make use of the ability. This would also give the sacrifice ability much better synergy with the titan overall.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Titans should be the ultimate weapon and crippling if you lose it. Yet they should also not be a must, but an option you can pick as alternative to a large frigate fleet. Them keeping their exp makes sending them on suicide missions just to gain a bit more exp not as bad as it should be. Given their firepower, the option of giving them exp makes an all frigate fleet less viable. Thus I'd rather see them with a purchase system like the starbase, than the upgrade system of the capital ships. Them having the experience system and letting them keep it makes them a must have, rather than the stalemate breaker they appear to be in the introvideo.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Grubnessul,

reply 56

Titans should be the ultimate weapon and crippling if you lose it. Yet they should also not be a must, but an option you can pick as alternative to a large frigate fleet. Them keeping their exp makes sending them on suicide missions just to gain a bit more exp not as bad as it should be. Given their firepower, the option of giving them exp makes an all frigate fleet less viable. Thus I'd rather see them with a purchase system like the starbase, than the upgrade system of the capital ships. Them having the experience system and letting them keep it makes them a must have, rather than the stalemate breaker they appear to be in the introvideo.

EEEEEK I hope your joking the idea of sending a titan on a suicide run gives me chills. To me the titan is my most valuable ship it is like the queen of chess, I keep it safe and in return it can (at the right moment) rain down unholy hell upon my enemies. And because of this I want to level my queen (titan) as fast as possible and if she dies I am going to have to get all that xp back before she can continue leveling. Thank you but no thank you I will do my best to keep my lady alive thank you.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Grubnessul,

reply 56

Titans should be the ultimate weapon and crippling if you lose it. Yet they should also not be a must, but an option you can pick as alternative to a large frigate fleet. Them keeping their exp makes sending them on suicide missions just to gain a bit more exp not as bad as it should be. Given their firepower, the option of giving them exp makes an all frigate fleet less viable. Thus I'd rather see them with a purchase system like the starbase, than the upgrade system of the capital ships. Them having the experience system and letting them keep it makes them a must have, rather than the stalemate breaker they appear to be in the introvideo.

That would never work in a multiplayer game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Grubnessul,

reply 56

Titans should be the ultimate weapon and crippling if you lose it. Yet they should also not be a must, but an option you can pick as alternative to a large frigate fleet. Them keeping their exp makes sending them on suicide missions just to gain a bit more exp not as bad as it should be. Given their firepower, the option of giving them exp makes an all frigate fleet less viable. Thus I'd rather see them with a purchase system like the starbase, than the upgrade system of the capital ships. Them having the experience system and letting them keep it makes them a must have, rather than the stalemate breaker they appear to be in the introvideo.

Purchasing upgrades and levels will give way too much power to the economy player. While others are trying to hold out in your frontlines using up resources you can just sit there and build an ubership and destroy everyone unless the emeny eco player does so himself. In singleplayer this is even worse since again you usually have 30 mins to an hour to build a sufficient eco. Heck you probably need 30 mins max.

The titan is not a game ender ship. If it was then why the hell bother with any other ship other to delay your emenies. No it's as TerribleNate said the Queen on your chessboard. You keep it alive for as long as possible. The Queen is the most powerful piece but hardly a game ender.

An increase in build time and cost should be implemented if they are gonna change anything about the titan in its current state. Giving a larger window of opportunity and build up levels on their own titan to surpass your next one.

Successfully updated karma reason!

i dont really see it being a problem, the time it takes to build one and let alone move it to where it needs to go, if you lose it once and dont have an adequate line to hold, you'll lose anyway so being able to get your titan back doesnt make much of a difference unless you get help or your titan bay is wayyyyy back.

As the way things are i think its fine, im guessing it's just another group of players not doing what they should in certain situations..

Lets look at gameplay and think, if you are fighting a pretty big battle with high level titans, you're going to have skirmished before, on a largish map? with multiple planets, which may or may not have a lot of defence, you're going to be fighting on someones world rather than a neutral, so we'll take defences into account, it's unlikely mid to late that back worlds would have much defence as both players would of put money into their forward or stalemate areas/and fleet.

So you kill the other players titan, and maybe his foundry? If not its not too far away, you proceed to kill the starbase on the world too? assuming there is one ofcourse, if not you will chew the rest of his fleet up, may lose your titan too but you win, So this guy loses his titan, its unlikely hes looking to build it again anytime soon, even with the res he should be thinking, oh dear, need to either fortify or pull something huge real quick.

You shouldnt worry about mopping this world if there is only defences, move to back worlds, find the foundry and attack eco, split your fleet, sooner or later you win or he gives up.

So where in this does him getting his titan back come into play?

I think having a titan coming back at the same level is a good balance, your titan will of leveled more since his died, even if you're unable to push too much further, its such a significant time and money set back, its hardly fair to remove the levels.

And we're just talking about the titan, let alone the rest of his fleet.

Sorry guys, people here need to think more, i'm not the best player but lets not have the game controlled by a community of morons. Balancing should be left to devs and perhaps input from the upper tier of players, since they understand how the game was mean't to be played.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Rovert10,

reply 59

Quoting Grubnessul, reply 56Titans should be the ultimate weapon and crippling if you lose it. Yet they should also not be a must, but an option you can pick as alternative to a large frigate fleet. Them keeping their exp makes sending them on suicide missions just to gain a bit more exp not as bad as it should be. Given their firepower, the option of giving them exp makes an all frigate fleet less viable. Thus I'd rather see them with a purchase system like the starbase, than the upgrade system of the capital ships. Them having the experience system and letting them keep it makes them a must have, rather than the stalemate breaker they appear to be in the introvideo.

Purchasing upgrades and levels will give way too much power to the economy player. While others are trying to hold out in your frontlines using up resources you can just sit there and build an ubership and destroy everyone unless the emeny eco player does so himself. In singleplayer this is even worse since again you usually have 30 mins to an hour to build a sufficient eco. Heck you probably need 30 mins max.

The titan is not a game ender ship. If it was then why the hell bother with any other ship other to delay your emenies. No it's as TerribleNate said the Queen on your chessboard. You keep it alive for as long as possible. The Queen is the most powerful piece but hardly a game ender.

An increase in build time and cost should be implemented if they are gonna change anything about the titan in its current state. Giving a larger window of opportunity and build up levels on their own titan to surpass your next one.

I admit, I did not take team multiplayer into account. Still losing the titan should be more of a punishment and it should be a choice, not something mandatory. Given the ease titan whip out frigates, a fleet without a titan is just feeding it, even if it would eventually defeat it, the titan owning side would have gained a lot more. Moreover, a titan retaining it's experience is a huge breaker of the suspension of disbelieve and rather strange compared to capital ships.

Successfully updated karma reason!

you can still beat a titan, they are not invincible..

Successfully updated karma reason!

Does anyone know if Titan experience level is tied to the foundry that birthed it?

Or once that foundry is destroyed the Titan reverts to level 1?

Maybe that's the way to go.........

Successfully updated karma reason!

To be fair i haven't tried that, but thinking about it, that wouldn't be a bad way to balance it, i think if the foundry was also destroyed then yes, a titan going back to 1 would be a fair compromise

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting wbino,

reply 63

Does anyone know if Titan experience level is tied to the foundry that birthed it?

Or once that foundry is destroyed the Titan reverts to level 1?

Maybe that's the way to go.........

The answer is no. Its been discussed, if titans lose levels upon dying in any way, shape, or form. They player who lost the titan loses the game. There is no way around this. I don't see how people are having a hard time with the titans at all...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting MayallCommunion,

reply 65

Quoting wbino, reply 63Does anyone know if Titan experience level is tied to the foundry that birthed it?

Or once that foundry is destroyed the Titan reverts to level 1?

Maybe that's the way to go.........

The answer is no. Its been discussed, if titans lose levels upon dying in any way, shape, or form. They player who lost the titan loses the game. There is no way around this. I don't see how people are having a hard time with the titans at all...

I'm not having a problem with the Titans at all.

In fact haven't lost one since beta started, I just want to make the game consistent in that when you lose a ship it starts at level one.

And make the game with more depth, so that if you do lose your Titan there is a way to win without one.

Successfully updated karma reason!

There is a way to win without one, massing a fleet. I almost never get a titan, I think they are a waste of money. But as I said, if they lose their level they are useless. The idea needs to be gotten out of your head.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Level 1 titans are too weak to massed bombers so them regaining there experience levels is not a problem. I've heard of level 10 titans bending over 80 bomber squads. Now imagine 50 squads of vasari bombers with phase missiles.WTF Boom!

+1

Successfully updated karma reason!

Maybe move a part of the health and damage increase to upgrades in the techtree? That way they could lose their exp and level and not become instantly useless.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Titans keeping their XP just renders cap ships completely pointless mid-late game. Of course I will want all my XP going to the super cap ship that never truly 'dies'. Why would I possibly want to waste my money on additional caps in the current state of balance? Fairest solution is push the titan tech up the tree and rebalance their power accordingly. Whatever your stance on the XP is, it is hard to disagree 4 labs is way too early for a 'superweapon'. Tier 6 should be the earliest you can finish one.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting lbgsloan,

reply 70

Titans keeping their XP just renders cap ships completely pointless mid-late game. Of course I will want all my XP going to the super cap ship that never truly 'dies'. Why would I possibly want to waste my money on additional caps in the current state of balance? Fairest solution is push the titan tech up the tree and rebalance their power accordingly. Whatever your stance on the XP is, it is hard to disagree 4 labs is way too early for a 'superweapon'. Tier 6 should be the earliest you can finish one.

You forget these are not super weapons the super weapons are being nurfed and I find that a little strange. You can have a perfectly viable fleet without titans and even beat a player who goes for the titan because he went for the titan.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting lbgsloan,

reply 70

Titans keeping their XP just renders cap ships completely pointless mid-late game. Of course I will want all my XP going to the super cap ship that never truly 'dies'. Why would I possibly want to waste my money on additional caps in the current state of balance? Fairest solution is push the titan tech up the tree and rebalance their power accordingly. Whatever your stance on the XP is, it is hard to disagree 4 labs is way too early for a 'superweapon'. Tier 6 should be the earliest you can finish one.

Hahaha you don't play the Advent do you? Capital ships are probably the most important thing for the Advent from mid-game forward. Also while your idea for pushing them forward is reasonable as I said if you rush for a titan you pretty much will lose the game by yourself a titan rush is a horrid strategy.

Successfully updated karma reason!