Pirate Balance: Patch 2c

from Sins Forums

This is kind of directed at Yarlen but what was the intent of the pirate change. I made my own thread about it because it just seems silly that no matter what pirates seem to always be a problem.

  • Pirate Reaper damage per bank decreased from 10 to 9.5.
  • Pirate Rogue damage decreased from 57 to 40.
  • Pirate Planet is now protected by Hangar Defense and Repair Bays.

Pirate Base defense was increased which was good(While you are at it you should seriously consider giving them unique designs as well;P

The problem with pirates as we know it is its to hard for newer players and to easy for experienced players. Buffing and Nerfing damage will not change this fact it will only make it go one way or the other. Giving the pirates utility while keeping them in low manageable numbers however can make them problematic for a higher level player. But manageable and not a slaughter on a lower level player. The Pirate Cutthroat is the best example of this as it is essentially the Pirate Offensive Support Cruiser. it embargos a planet, and steals credits from a player via ships.

All im saying is giving some simple abilities to the pirate ships will definitely change the way that pirates work in this game. For example, giving the Corsair a taunt. Will shift focus away from the Cutthroats to allow them to continue to embargo your planet. Maybe giving the Rogue an ability to drain the antimatter of a capital ship. While not problematic and overwhelming to a lower level player. The higher level player will feel this change much more, but it wont be to overbearing.

tl;dr: Im just wondering why you keep messing with pirates. Adjusting their damage values does not work. Its a utility problem, not a damage/mass.

7,500 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I think it would be interesting to implement some form of lvl format before your game starts for the pirates.

Easey- not as bruttle of an attack force. 

medium- average attack force.

hard- difficult attack force. 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

They've never come close to pleasing everyone. The best players always find ways to turn them into easy XP, and the new players always struggle to deal with them. The only thing that changes is that those in the middle find them more closely drawn to one extreme or another.

Honestly, save for early in diplomacy when they could take out fully upgraded starbases, I think they should have said long ago "okay, the pirates will be like this, we're not wasting any more time on them. If you don't like them keep them off or get a mod". People are never going to agree on how they should be so we'll try to work on areas where widely agreed on improvements are possible.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I'd like to see the pirates finally get a capital ship for when they reach maximum threat, just the one...one big spanish galleon that is!

 

I know that pirates arent meant to have access to such and such tech, cant have that ship or that one, that they have a pretty small diversity of ships, but surely once enough has been invested into them to get their max threat, they'd find some way to have a fleet composed of more than just frigates and cruisers.

Yes this isnt a realistic hope because we are way too late for that, but it'd be nice if they could have just a little variety, to give em a bit of a challenge after you've just burnt through most of your defences budget to make someone else the target of a raid after they've X amount on doing the same to you.

Just gimme one ship, one carrier as its not unreasonable for pirates to have a bunch of strike craft, and pirates are perfect to me.

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I agree.
Normally i'm really no big fan of cluttering the setup menus with customisation options, but as others stated, pirates were a problem in one or another way since Sins came out.

Too hard for newcomers (and sometimes for the AI), lategame the sheer strength of the pirates lets you think why they aren't the dominant force in the galaxy when they can chew through all three factions with ease.
But as soon players get a grip with the game, the raids turn into a comical nuisance, where you wonder why they even try to attack at all.

So a easy/medium/hard/whatever toggle could cater to all player skills and would fit thematically too, as the AI difficulty is already a customisable variable.

And no offense, but the " serious MP players turn them off anyway so forget about them" sadly is not an answer.
New players to the franchise ideally want to experience the whole package of their purchase.....
and will wonder why they can't play the pirates themselves, because they seem to be the most dangerous thing out there (after being shred to pieces in their first game) :-D.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I advocate for them having a 'makeshift capital ship' at maximum threat level. Like salvaging an obsolete asteroid-cracker miner ship and tweaking it for offensive capabilities. Being a miner ship, it is a tanker hull by design, as it must both carry heavy loads and resist unintentional impacts, being an obsolete piece of junk which has no shields.

 

Tractor beam: disables ship engines, prevents ships from jumping/turning.

Mining laser: high-powered laser used to atomize rocks retooled to atomize hulls.

Berzerk!: pirates take (highly toxic and addictive) chemical stimulants to fight better, faster, and put weapons on overdrive (lower weapon cooldown, higher damage, faster turning and ship speed)

Boarding parties: Avast me hearties! Only effective against corvettes/frigates/cruisers. % chance of taking over ship.

 

That IMO fits completely with pirate lore, and would be a nice adition.

I also think that the Pirates should have difficulty levels. It couls be a simple 3-level, or go along with the empire AI difficulty, going all the way to cruel.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

@Brazilian: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/423908
I made this thread along time ago, im trying to see if I can work a majority of it into a mod. But I think you will enjoy the read.

 

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 2
They've never come close to pleasing everyone. The best players always find ways to turn them into easy XP, and the new players always struggle to deal with them. The only thing that changes is that those in the middle find them more closely drawn to one extreme or another.

Honestly, save for early in diplomacy when they could take out fully upgraded starbases, I think they should have said long ago "okay, the pirates will be like this, we're not wasting any more time on them. If you don't like them keep them off or get a mod". People are never going to agree on how they should be so we'll try to work on areas where widely agreed on improvements are possible.
End of GoaFan77's quote

I suppose I agree with this as well. Putting there foot down would be good. But I just think making the Pirates cooler would be best for the game. And add more depth, while improving the competitiveness.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

The only thing I would change is delay the first pirate wave by ten minutes.

Pirates should be feared, maybe pirates alone should have gotten an uber ship to terrorize the universe.

 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting wbino, reply 7
The only thing I would change is delay the first pirate wave by ten minutes.

Pirates should be feared, maybe pirates alone should have gotten an uber ship to terrorize the universe.

 
End of wbino's quote

Pirates Hijacking a titan seems, but that's unlikey. Refer to my post above I actually did have some ideas that would make great Capital ships for their armada.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 6
I suppose I agree with this as well. Putting there foot down would be good. But I just think making the Pirates cooler would be best for the game. And add more depth, while improving the competitiveness.
End of MayallCommunion's quote

Thing is most of the time people still play with pirates off. They've got a little more than a month to finish the game and a good chunk of that will be fixing bugs and desyncs. They don't have a lot of time to flesh stuff out with, let alone add new stuff, and IMO pirates should not get any more attention because anything they do change will likely be less appreciated.

If you want unique and/or powerful pirates it needs to be optional, so that's why mods will always be the best way to enjoy this feature. Distant Stars and Maelstrom both do some cool things to them, and ZombieRus' Rogue race can apparently control pirate ships, steal capitalships and all sorts of other low life goodness for you to play as.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 9

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 6I suppose I agree with this as well. Putting there foot down would be good. But I just think making the Pirates cooler would be best for the game. And add more depth, while improving the competitiveness.

Thing is most of the time people still play with pirates off. They've got a little more than a month to finish the game and a good chunk of that will be fixing bugs and desyncs. They don't have a lot of time to flesh stuff out with, let alone add new stuff, and IMO pirates should not get any more attention because anything they do change will likely be less appreciated.

If you want unique and/or powerful pirates it needs to be optional, so that's why mods will always be the best way to enjoy this feature. Distant Stars and Maelstrom both do some cool things to them, and ZombieRus' Rogue race can apparently control pirate ships, steal capitalships and all sorts of other low life goodness for you to play as.
End of GoaFan77's quote

I may look at them for inspiration for my own mods(Although I wont steal anything), Im still trying to figure out the basics to modding :)

But you do make a good point, I suggested a mini expansion to help improve pirates. No one wants pirates controlled by the AI thats just a sad fact. Im having a small euphoria over improving pirates:p

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 9
Thing is most of the time people still play with pirates off.
End of GoaFan77's quote

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 2
They've never come close to pleasing everyone. The best players always find ways to turn them into easy XP, and the new players always struggle to deal with them.... 

I think they should have said long ago "okay, the pirates will be like this, we're not wasting any more time on them.

End of GoaFan77's quote

Sadly, I agree.  I even wonder if the default game should start with Pirates ON?  (Or for that matter, default to Unlocked Teams, since 'diplomacy' seems unpolished)?

The Ebay style bidding on pirates is just plain annoying.  I can't be bothered with baby sitting a ('rigged'?) bid timer, while I'm trying to play the game.

And pirates are easily exploitable:  just scuttle all, and the pirates will leave (without killing the planet, since they seldom include seige frigates now)!