Plausible solution to Titans keeping levels

from Sins Forums

I have no problem with Titans retaining levels in principle, I have a problem with current implementation, when the Titan just respawns with no explanation whatsoever, or mechanism how would a dead crew from the lost Titan appear in the new one.

 

The solution to that? Escape Pods.

When level x Titan goes down, it releases x - 1  escape pods (since the first level is free). These would be fast heavily armored frigate sized craft (also Jump interference immune after you research it), which immidiately start to rush to your nearest colonised planet. How many of them manage to get there would determine the additional levels of the new Titan. Titans owner would have to cover their escape, and the other player would have to chase them and try to take out as much as possible before they arrive at their destination.

It solves the current absurdity of the unexplained Titan respawns with plausible mechanism, and adds a new interesting gameplay mechanic.

Thoughts? 

30,309 views 21 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Haha your stealing Novastalker's idea

Quoting NovaStalker, reply 20
Do you want to know why Titans keep their level? It's because when they were being designed and everyone said BIGGER IS BETTER they actually realised at one point that they couldn't fit any more weapons on to it but still had tons of space left over. So one clever chap said, "well this whole losing your level when a capital ship dies thing is really annoying so let's include these newfangled things I just invented called 'escape pods' in all that leftover space". So that's what they did and the rest, as they say, is history.
End of NovaStalker's quote

 

However since he was a smartass about it and didn't even bother to elaborate on it, he has no room to complain. I really do like the idea btw. :thumbsup:

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting TerribleNate, reply 1
Haha your stealing Novastalker's idea


Quoting NovaStalker, reply 20Do you want to know why Titans keep their level? It's because when they were being designed and everyone said BIGGER IS BETTER they actually realised at one point that they couldn't fit any more weapons on to it but still had tons of space left over. So one clever chap said, "well this whole losing your level when a capital ship dies thing is really annoying so let's include these newfangled things I just invented called 'escape pods' in all that leftover space". So that's what they did and the rest, as they say, is history.
End of TerribleNate's quote

 

Oh.. I swear I came up with it by myself   >_> :grin:

 

Maybe even capital ships could get their escape pods, but they will be smaller and easier do destroy. 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Personally I like the idea. It would explain the titans keeping their levels. My friend yesterday had to kill a level 3 AI titan 4 times and really does get annoying that there isn't an experience punishment for the titan. Be also suggested maybe making whatever level it died at, that's how high it can be retrained when it's built again. Kind of like the capital ships, except if you lost a level 10 titan you could (for a hefty price) purchase all the levels back. Kind of like a recovered black box that is used to train the next crew.

But as for the current standing, we really do leave our titans in much longer than we should because there isn't a punishment for losing it.  In my opinion, it really down plays one being careful with a high level titan. You should always have to analyze a battle situation before you get into it, not just rely upon the ability to rebuild right where you left off.  Just my thoughts...

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Ahh, so many errors for spelling. I typed that from my phone. Please excuse the errors for spelling and grammar.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Ccowboyjoe777, reply 3
But as for the current standing, we really do leave our titans in much longer than we should because there isn't a punishment for losing it. In my opinion, it really down plays one being careful with a high level titan. You should always have to analyze a battle situation before you get into it, not just rely upon the ability to rebuild right where you left off. Just my thoughts...
End of Ccowboyjoe777's quote

This is the argument against the people who say losing a high level Titan is too much punishment X(  .

People will just push their Titan to the end....while saving up for the next one.....

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I like the idea and I think it could be really cool to do and you could do likewise with capitalships, but the escape pods would only restore one level or something for capitals.

Unfortunately, this requires art and code and at this point, I think they aren't going to mess with either unless fixing bugs.  I guess we'll just have to hope/wait for Sins II then.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 6
I like the idea and I think it could be really cool to do and you could do likewise with capitalships, but the escape pods would only restore one level or something for capitals.

Unfortunately, this requires art and code and at this point, I think they aren't going to mess with either unless fixing bugs.  I guess we'll just have to hope/wait for Sins II then.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

 

If art is the problem, then they could just reuse some other model (colony ships?) and change a few textures. say its a common ship chassis. 

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting wbino, reply 5
Quoting Ccowboyjoe777, reply 3But as for the current standing, we really do leave our titans in much longer than we should because there isn't a punishment for losing it. In my opinion, it really down plays one being careful with a high level titan. You should always have to analyze a battle situation before you get into it, not just rely upon the ability to rebuild right where you left off. Just my thoughts...

This is the argument against the people who say losing a high level Titan is too much punishment  .

People will just push their Titan to the end....while saving up for the next one.....
End of wbino's quote

Boo hoo, you lost your titan, would you like me to hold your hand as your next will just be rebuilt. Lol

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

This is plausible.  Having titans not keep their levels is also plausible.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

However, there was one thing that I didn't consider.  Looking at it from a developer stand point.  The Eradica Titan has a level 6 power that is pretty much a suicide power (I mean its no use to just spend a point on it when you first get it if the only way you can use it, is to die)  So maybe, the developers said, "Well if we just send the Titans back to level 1 whenever they die, this power is kind of useless.  So to make it a useful power, one would have to depend on the titan to keep its same level upon resurrection/rebuilt."  I mean think about it, the Eradica, with its level 6 power is a titan that could be considered a Japanese Kamikaze, you send it in against the ugliest of defenses, and it can end up breaking the shell, and from there your fleet has an easier ticket in and at the same time you haven't lost the game because the other person can now just bring in their high level titan to your planets and run through you like a hot knife in butter.  So in order to prevent putting all your eggs in one basket for the Advent Rebel titan, they would allow that titan to get all its levels upon resurrection.  However, that would make it HIGHLY unbalanced for all other titans (because this suicide could be used strictly take out your titan and thus win the game as soon as it respawned since the other titan would have to start at level 1).  So they (devs) made it so all the titans would come back at exactly the same level as which they died.  And this also solved the other issue with once you lost your high level titan, you lost the game.

That is probably the best alternative argument I can come up with of why the titans respawn with the level they were destroyed at.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Ccowboyjoe777, reply 10
That is probably the best alternative argument I can come up with of why the titans respawn with the level they were destroyed at.
End of Ccowboyjoe777's quote

Quoting Ccowboyjoe777, reply 10
And this also solved the other issue with once you lost your high level titan, you lost the game.
End of Ccowboyjoe777's quote

That is the reason titans keep their levels when they die. I don't think there is any uncertainty about it. Some people may not like it, but it seems clear the devs aren't going to radically change the system at this point.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Personally, IMHO, I wouldn't consider one titan's bad ultimate ability a strong argument in favor all titan's keeping their abilities.  I would rather see the eradica be the only titan keep some (not all) experience/evels since death and resurrection is the Advent Rebels' thing.  Another course of action would be to come up with a different ultimate if that were the only reason.
 
With regards to the issue of losing the titan/losing the game, I get that.  However, I think this goes back to how powerful and costly the titans are and how much they should be to preserve the other aspects of the game, i.e. the importance of frigates.  If a high-level titan is supposed to be a game-ending unit then losing one should be game-ending.  If not, then it should be weaker and less costly overall.  I'm not sure if splitting the difference is the way to go.  I also feel that if the the titan is indeed supposed to be game-ending, it should come closer to the end of the game (i.e. higher tech level).  If players should get access to them early, then their power should reflect that and they can become powerful with further research (shameless plug for previous idea).  The devs may have come to a consensus on that but I'm not sure if the community has, for whatever that's worth.
 
Full Disclosure: I haven't played the beta much after the most recent patch and I mostly play single player.  So I may be full of crap.
 
 
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

No I do agree with you, if you have seen my earlier posts, I believe that the Titan should be reset to level one, all I was doing was figuring out why wouldn't that be done.  However, I am completely for the idea of keeping the titan at a game-ending level.  I think its really awesome to have such a powerful unit in the game.  However, I also see where the devs might of been going with the Eradica, as it does follow exactly how the Advent Rebel is, they are all about sacrifice.  And in this case, they can sacrifice the titan for some extreme offense.

Personally, I love playing this game (I love playing as TEC Rebel) and I think that the titan and sub factions are excellent additions, and I like where they are going with these ideas, so honestly, even though I don't agree with the titan keeping the level, I will still agree to why they are doing it and more power to them.  Excellent game and is one of my favorites.

 

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

I've got to admit, I really hate high level destroyed Titans coming back to haunt me.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Instead of escape pods I think you should be able to pay half the price of the current total levels upgrade cost (As if you had purchased each level) to "clone" the current crew. Of course this would seem similar to the advent progenitors resurrect but it would cost money and have to be applied before the ship is destroyed. The games current time period would make this easily possible.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Any idea to stop titans keeping levels is a good one - so is any idea to explain within the games lore

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Scudhawk, reply 15
Instead of escape pods I think you should be able to pay half the price of the current total levels upgrade cost (As if you had purchased each level) to "clone" the current crew. Of course this would seem similar to the advent progenitors resurrect but it would cost money and have to be applied before the ship is destroyed. The games current time period would make this easily possible.
End of Scudhawk's quote

I'm assuming the cloning procedure would be an ability of the titan foundry then?

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

I intended it to be a capital / titan research. Selected on each ship individually in the ability upgrade tab (The white star). An alternative to make it competitive would be to make it a tactical or logistics structure that casts it on any ship of the same type in range of it when one  of higher level is destroyed. If the structure is destroyed all stored levels are lost.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Scudhawk, reply 18
I intended it to be a capital / titan research. Selected on each ship individually in the ability upgrade tab (The white star). An alternative to make it competitive would be to make it a tactical or logistics structure that casts it on any ship of the same type in range of it when one  of higher level is destroyed. If the structure is destroyed all stored levels are lost.
End of Scudhawk's quote

 

This is good idea, solving the problem. The Titan respawns on level 1, but you can buy all those lost levels back, similarly to buying experience levels for capships. So its basically costs additional money and time, to get the titan to the level, it had, before it died.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Timmaigh, reply 19

Quoting Scudhawk, reply 18I intended it to be a capital / titan research. Selected on each ship individually in the ability upgrade tab (The white star). An alternative to make it competitive would be to make it a tactical or logistics structure that casts it on any ship of the same type in range of it when one  of higher level is destroyed. If the structure is destroyed all stored levels are lost.

 

This is good idea, solving the problem. The Titan respawns on level 1, but you can buy all those lost levels back, similarly to buying experience levels for capships. So its basically costs additional money and time, to get the titan to the level, it had, before it died.
End of Timmaigh's quote

 

It also sounds like a combination of the way capitals and starbases upgrade.  interesting.

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

It's kinda like how you resurrect heroes in other RTSes... I like it!

I think it would be easier if it was coded into the foundry itself though. It could keep track of the Titan's level, and as it leveled up increases the price to rebuild by, oh, say 1500cred, 200metal, 150crystal/level.

Considering the significant cost of the foundry, I think that you shouldn't lose levels if you lose it... The cost of building another + rebuilding titan would make up for that. Just my opinion though.

The only downside I see to this is the ART. This could get expensive for them if they intend to use their ult...