The AI is good, maybe too good.

Dude, how's your credit income?  Numbers?

Uhm no. The AI is UP not OP

So you're soloing two allied AI's and are actually considering that AIs are too good?

Logic = failure.

He/she was legitimately asking for advice.  Don't be a dick.

That said:

I haven't played enough to know the ins and outs of strategy/tactics, but I think that people would generally need more detailed information or a game-replay to show you where you went astray.  My solution for you would simply to play a handful more games to get a feel for patterns of when/where/how you fall behind the arms race.  If they are 2v1-ing you a lot, then maybe you need to work harder to either eliminate allied factions first (scout more to find them, and use the diplomacy screen to see who likes who (if two AIs like each other a lot, then they are strong candidates to be allied to one another)), or to create some alliances of your own to counter their weight.  Either go for a victory as allies, or use your allies as meat-shields and then turn on them when the time is right.

I've got a little over 20 hours under my belt (and played some original sins way back when) and I don't know anything about tactics/strategy.  My advice (if you like the game) is simply to play a lot more - the logic will fall into place when you do.

Cheers,

-tid242

Uh.... Rule 6 in games. The AI can NEVER be too good.

Apparently you've never played Tic Tac Toe...

As I have said in another thread, the AI can surprise you with some utterly brilliant tactics at times. That said, I do not think they need a nerf (as suggested in the title).

First, you should know that the 'Unfair AI' is... unfair... it receives more credits than it should; and you have less planets than the combined AI forces, so... you are probably severely outgunned economically; be prepared for that. The longer this goes on, the larger your disadvantage.

well, it looks like you have put mines out at your planets; those are not that effective this late in the game, but you can bet the AI will run right through them. If you're desperate for cash, you might consider scrapping them

If you have the wormhole tech, you might be able to maintain both sides of your empire if you can push forward to one of those wells, then hop back and forth as necessary.

If you dont have that, or dont think you can push that far, your only real option is up top via the ice planet. The only reason you havent gotten overrun, I think, is that there is a nice line of uncolonizable wells cushioning your planets. This means it takes time for them/you to get reinforcements or repair. And since those are colonizable, it is very important. Here's what I would do:

• Leave a capital + some forces at the roid to pair up with the SBs. If you're really getting hammered, consider hitting the red button to take out their fleet, you will have a spare SB, and can just rebuild it. Do your best to stall here.
• Be prepared to face some anti-module frigates at the roid. I think the best option for that is fighters, but I'm not sure for TEC.
• If you can get some colony frigates to the asteroid belts, you might have some better intel about incoming fleets
• You have to push through the ice world or very quickly swing around from the asteroid belt to that roid that star has.  I'm sure that will be the key to turning things around if it can be done.
• You should have more frigates than you have... I'm not sure if your pic was after a battle, but you have alot of capitals.
• As expensive as Starbases are, they are really a good investment when stalemated like this. if you get overwhelmed, you know you have the time to recuperate and jump back in the fight.
• What frigates is the enemy bringing? counter his fleet and avoid restocking ships that he already has counters for. This will make your ships count for more and make up the $ difference

I would actually claim the AI in a game of Reversi is harder... they're very good at parsing all the possible choices. However, I did see a math paper recently that showed the AI is at a disadvantage in Reversi (I forget the reason).

Good advice. My income is about 25 credits/sec and 3 or 4 crystal and metal.

• I do try and send some colony frigates to cap those invulnerable mining rigs, AI just sends their own too often for me to keep up.
• I really like capitol ships, they have lots of abilities and they pack a hell of a punch.
• I can research quite a bit of more fleet points and I still have 200 left, but I need to build up my money.
• I have found that starbases are a huge help, be it holding on till my fleet gets there or being a fall back.
• The enemy used to send all kinds of ships, but one of them keeps sending anti-structure and anti-fighter frigates, heavy frigates good against?
• I've checked income levels sometimes when I have to save and quit, but I'm not too far behind actually. I have a lot of trade routes and resource extractor things.
• I'm playing as the loyalists as you can see and therefore starbases are cheaper to build and upgrade (also more armor), same with novaliths. This helps a ton.
• Another problem is the pirates. I don't have the money to keep them off me, but they do give xp to caps. If I don't send my fleet where they attack, I almost loose the gravity well. I keep thinking to go take them out, but that would probably wipe half my fleet. They also serve as a no go for the AI and help with my choke points.
• I don't have the wormhole tec yet, I've been spending money on the military tree. I thought about that, but both the wormholes are 2 gravity wells away from my planets. Maybe a good get away or way to slip through the enemies defenses.

Are you saying take my fleet (mostly) up the left side through that ice planet? The worst part is that the high level titan comes from the other way.

I've played plenty of other games, but this is my first against "unfair" level AI. I tend to not like diplomacy, but I did see this coming earlier in the game. I even tried to send some envoys and missions to the other TEC player opposite me (yellow) but they were wiped out in a pincer between the two Advent AI. There was also a Purple TEC on my left side that had a level 10 Ragnarov titan that held the Advent for awhile, but it didn't last.

AI can never be "too" good.

I sat in my corner, not even really doing any diplomacy, storing up the resources to build starbases and novalith cannons and a titan. 

So, that is your main problem against unfair AI. I have found that the only way to beat unfair AI soundly is to take a two prong simultaneous approach: (1) early, you can take out one unfair AI but "push, push, push", meaning being very aggressive; (2) next, you must make friends through diplomacy with all but one of your remaining neighbors; (3) then you must push, push, push and kill another AI. By the two you're up two empires, you're about ready to meet another unfair AI head-to-head.

Your approach of turtling just doesn't work again unfair AI. The unfair AI has too many economic advantages. You must be aggressive.

You can practice being aggressive on the large map that has 25 planets and 8 players. Start putting 4 on hard and 3 on unfair. Once you have the hang of that, up it to 7 unfair AI's. Once you have that, you can go back to other maps.

If turtling works at all, its because the AI is incompetent, not because its a good strategy.

Clearly you haven't seen boshimi's killer strategy...

No, I wish he would use it more often.

But Seleuceia... you just posted a cookie picture.

Actually, the unfair AI doesn't really get that much of a bonus to their economy.  It's there, to be sure but i've found it's really easy to own the playing field against them.

However, your number of asteroids makes this difficult.  

There is an uninhabited terran and ice planet next to your top choke point.  You need to peel off a small cruiser group to conquer those.  With those, it will be very possible to get to 150-200 creds/second.  Just fill your logistics slots with trade ports  (if you really need another logistics slot just destroy a few.  Won't really make much of a difference to your income.)

Once you get those two planets, it'll take about five minutes to set up a workable economy and be well on your way to defeating them.

And don't destroy the mines.  That's a waste of your hard earned cash and after all, you can count on an AI eventually detonating every single one one way or another.  

After all, this is what the showdown looks like at this point.

VS.  

Well I wasn't going to reveal my secret strategy...

Oops...

150-200 creds really is sort of mediocre.  He just doesn't have the right planets for a good economy (far too many asteroids).

Relevant xkcd comic.....

http://xkcd.com/1002/

Is his fleet makeup good?  I never figured out how well early game frigates work in large fleet battles....

I have tried sending a few ships to capture those planets, but the problem is that my Advent enemies simply bombed those planets into nothing, but left all the defenses of that TEC AI intact. There is still a huge starbase with a lot of defensive structures defending that Terran planet.

Does building that many trade ports really generate that much money?

I think my fleet make up is good, a lot of anti fighter frigates for those advent fighters and bombers with a lot of heavy frigates to last and a lot of light frigates to take the damage first (the AI seems to always go for light frigates first, maybe devs want to change so they attack capitol ships first, I always do for xp and to make enemy spend more money building them).

I also have a lot of fighter and bomber support with long range missile frigates to support them. Quite a few capitol ships too. Check one of my links in the original post for exact numbers in my fleet.

And does anyone know how to pause the game while actually in the game? A hot-key maybe?

Trade ports and trade routes seem to be a really good way to strengthen your economy with a fixed number of planets, in some of my games I've gotten as much as over 10 credits per second from one planet's trade ports alone. 

I think light frigates are supposed to have those upgrades that make them more useful in larger battles, but I tend to be really conservative with my fleet and I didn't really like how they'd die like rather quickly.  I'm a really big fan of massing carrier ships and bombers    i did see your jpg of your fleet though.

Anyhoo I'm mostly a macro player so I don't know how to micro fleet battles at all

Give me that number of credits and I'll stomp 9 Vicious AI's all by myself. Far from mediocre if you know how to use it, my friend.

So, Sully... we meet again...

The answers to your issues are clearly defined in the thread already. Take the Ice World, the Terran Planet, the uncolonizeables, and hold them, meaning keep your fleet there, spend money and build these nifty little things called starbases and upgrade them with Red Button, Weapons and Armor in that order. Surround them with Gauss platforms, hangars, and Repair platforms, and keep an Akkan nearby with fully-upgraded Targeting Uplink and you will be invinvicible to any attack two Unfair AI's can throw at you. I know. I use that tactic, as TEC, vs. triplets of Vicious AI, and I never lose my planets.

Of course, it is always handy to keep a backup fleet nearby, just in case.

As for those uncolonizeables... You can build two Starbases. Do it. Build them so their firing arcs intercept eachother. Upgrade one with Red Button, and combo of Armor and Hangar you choose (I use 1-2 myself). With the other... Get Docking Booms and some other combination, but make sure that one is attacked last. Simple problem, simple solution. And 200 credits a second will pay this off relatively quickly, as far as I'm concerned. Once the payoff begins, you'll have the initiative, and the AI will not know what to do with all easy avenues cut off, and will reveal its true weakness - it is a computer, incapable of intelligent though or action - and it will succomb to your fleets. Both of them. Eventually.

By the way... the Ankylon is, for all intents and purposes, indestructable in a firefight. I've never lost one, thanks to that hull repair buff it has along with Inspire and Impair. Don't be afraid to use it.

• even for a bit, that's more money
• it doesnt matter what you like. it's what works that we're concerned with. capital ships are support in this game. if you dont have enough frigates, you arent going to do enough damage
• you will just paint yourself into a corner if you research too much fleet. 200 is plenty of supply to add more frigates.
• I'm not sure if the AI cheat credits show up on the income data
• If they're a problem, wipe out their base. You have the forces to do that. Maybe not enough to hold off a big assault at the same time, but pirate bases are not very micromanageable (imho), so focus on your base.
• you need to move the lines to the other side of the buffer zone we talked about. that is the only way to make progress. You can't sit back and expect to win that way unless you novalith the hell out of them

If the harder fleet is on the other side, than there is no reason you shouldn't be working your way up top. If you really want to, keep your titan down below. That small path of worlds up top is key; I'm telling you.

If the enemy is coming at you with flak and anti module, this is an attack on your fighters, corvettes and starbases... it is trying to punch through your defenses. The way to beat that is with light frigates... unfortunately, LF do not survive long in the late game battles, so you'll have to use heavy cruisers. Watch out if they switch to bombers though, that will rip right through them.

This is the advice I have for winning from where you are now. If you don't want to do any of this, I don't know why you're asking for help. Just start over.