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Cause VL really tops it..... a simple screen shot to show what VL can do
and i know this can be done better >..<
(Test run was done in 5v5 ai, VL eco position, simple to show how resourceful VL at eco position can be.. )
Go for the tier 3 capital ship credit production and star making capital ships, while colonizing, + improved population growth upgrades...I assume. I also assume that this was done vs. the AI, or in a Co-op where the other guy(s) specialized in military and defended the Eco player from assault.
It also helps to have a map with a lot of neutrals so you can build a lot of ships fast. you can fill your slots very fast if you spend a lot of time ecoing and then get a desert planet and put max factories on it and pump out ships.
The OP doesn't have enough extra information about what their map consisted of to really give us a perspective of all the variables.
coloney cap start, 5 civil then start eating planet, fuel in 2 more caps as u progress. And if you dont make mistakes like i did i assume u can achieve 2000 ship slots within 25 minutes.
no planetary upgrade at all except for 2-3 your starting planet( and i only put 1 point on an astroid and ice to smooth my research requirement), once u can chew the very 1st planet u get whole game pacing...
And you built those ships from shipyards or summoned the bulk of them via phasegates? Cause you know, currently the dark fleet beacon tech is broken and summoned reinforcements cost you no money, although you need to achieve certain amount of them to be able to press the Summon Dark Combat Fleet button at all - it just fail to take that money from your account after that...
I realize it doesn't make much sense, but the money requirement but not taking away thing, I actually like that. Mostly cause it's unique.
It's likely to be the case that Dark Fleet abilities will cost resources. And/or perhaps, Strip to the Core may be raised to a tier 8 research.
Or perhaps, this ability will be much more balanced if it only works when your Titan is in the gravity well.
I may have a solution to the VL strip-rush.. Make Vorastra Prototype IV a prerequisite of Mobile Rulership. This would require them to have four military and five civilian labs set up before hitting Shipboard Labs which makes research tiers moot for the VL.
Changing the tier of Striped to the core means pretty much nothing as long as the vasari loyalists have a tech that gives 2 free labs per capitalship.
That tech is as much part of the problem as anything else. Honestly I think the best idea I've seen on the topic is having that tech still be 2 ranks, but the first rank just give 1 civil lab per capitalship and the second rank give 1 military lab per capitalship(so the rank 2 would essentially be the same as the current rank 1). At 2 labs/ship of each type it's just makes tier requirements of every other tech in the game nolonger any real impediment.
shipyards at this point i was running 8 factories, i think in a real game this strate can support up to 12-16 factories.
my suggestion for strip money rush is to make strip money proportional to planet population, which will cost some early investment and some time for planet population reach a decent level. And yes, lab per cap needs some nerf too.
The problem with that is, Dark Fleet requires tier 8 research to use. IIRC, if you no longer have enough labs, you can't use the ability if you no longer have enough labs to research that ability. Therefore, if a Vasari Loyalist wants to go fully mobile, that player would then require eight capital ships, which is probably a little too high. Perhaps, changing the research so that it's split into two techs - one which gives 1/2 civ labs, and another at the next tier which gives 1/2 military labs, pushing strip to the core to tech level 8. The strat looks at a basic level, like an all in move - once you're out of money you're going to be less effective. Stretching out the time it takes in order to pull this off is a good way to partially balance it.
Though I think the most elegant solution is to require your Titan to be present in the gravity well in order for resources to be collected. That way, you must build a Titan as well, both delaying your strategy (you can't just strip a planet to afford the Titan, as well as needing to wait for the Titan construction to finish. The opposing team also is alerted to the construction of one as well)
Eight Cap ships is pretty high, but actually may not be unreasonable with this strategy! (Esp. since you get 2 Cap ship each for the 4th & 5th Fleet level).
Another alternative: if the first level gave 1 Mil Lab, second 1 Civic, add a third to give a second Civic Lab per Cap ship. (But not a second Military Lab).
I still keep slight hopes in the back of my mind, that they would eventually choose this option and make the titan part of the stripping process (hopefully more than passive one). It would make sense, as it would solve all the current issues with stripping being available to soon into the match, thus making it OP, and it would be SO MUCH COOLER. Granted, its lot of fun in its current form and requring titan would make it feel less "smooth" gameplay-wise, especially when you would target your own planets, but that would be the only downside. The fear of the enemies, when you bring the titan in to devour one of their core-worlds would pretty much make up for it.
So once again, please replace Desperation with a planet stripping ability!
Here's the thing though: it SHOULDN'T be easy to go completely mobile and have 8 labs of each type. In multiplayer games it's rare for other races to get one type of lab up to 8, much less 2. The game is in a sort of messed up place as long as it is easy to use one etch to get to 8 labs of each type.
8 capitalships sounds reasonable to me- it's really not much harder then the 16 labs other races need, especially considering the logistics saved.
GOings "fully mobile" is a huge tactical advantage- it shouldn't be easy to maintain the ability to research ANYTHING while doing so. There needs to be some trade off- some reason to keep a few planets for labs and whatnot.
16 capital ships may be strong, but remember, if you are going fully mobile, the phase stabilizers you drop both consume resources (which will be mostly finite unless you are on the attack), and you are unable to choose which capital ship you summon, potentially weakening your fleet. Once you are fully mobile you are unable to control in large part the composition of your fleet, which makes it less able to adapt to a changing strategy. So I don't really think 16 capital ships is viable. The option of allowing max 2 civilian labs but only 1 military lab per capital ship may be the best idea, though.
Perhaps a 2 level research granting 1 civilian lab each, and then a 1 level research granting 1 military lab, as someone suggested, may be a better suggestion than what I had originally suggested.
Except that it's unlikely that someone would strip everything. They'll likely have a planet somewhere that'll have a couple factories on it allowing them to build if necessary.
And i would like this to be changed. I mean set the game the way, where you are not afraid to go fully mobile and get rid of those planets/factories. With 1 phase gate spawned every 10 min on the top level this is the case currently.
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