Coronata Titan Feedback

from Sins Forums

 

I'm glad to see the Coronata is starting to get some attention with the recent Subjugating Assault buff.  That said, the Coronata still has some pretty severe unaddressed issues.

The Problems:

First off, while the buff to subjugating assault is nice, one fundamental flaw of the ability is still present: It does absolutely nothing against capitalships/titans.  The problem with this is that due to the scaling, subjugating Assault needs a heavy skillpoint investment to be come dependable.   But once you invest those points the opponent can make this investment utterly wasted simply by using a carrier-heavy fleet which they park on the far side of the gravity well, keeping only capitalships and titans on the frontline.  And frankly this strategy is very strong in general so it's not like the opponent is sacrificing much by doing so.  

Obviously Subjugating assault shouldn't ever steal capitalships, but it could easily be given an alternate effect when the coronata attacks capitalships.

 

 

The other large issue is Unity Mass.  This ability is pretty much inferior to snipe- 1/2 the range, 3x the cooldown, and a hefty nearby unit requirement to deal it's full damage.  The range in particular is nasty as it makes it difficult to use unity mass as an opener when the enemy hasn't yet built up shield mitigation and if used on a fleeing ship, often the fleeing ship is out of range before the Coronata turns to face them.

 

My Proposed Solutions:


#1).  Subjugating Assault:  Add "When attacking capitalships with Subjugating Assault active, each hit of the coronata's weapon systems additionally drains 2/3/4/5 Antimatter"

[comments:  This idea has been bouncing around the forums for awhile and it's perfect IMO.  It makes the ability decent against capitalships, but still better against frigates(a stolen frigate takes about as long as draining 33 AM from capitalships(and that 33 is likely divided between 3-4 ships)).]


#2) Unity Mass:  make this ability omnidirectional, reduce cooldown to 15 seconds, and increase bonus damage per ally by 5 at all ranks

[comments:  The ability being omnidirectional makes up for the lack of range compared to snipe as it will mean the coronata doesn't have to turn to fire, meaning it can reliably fire on a fleeing ship before said ship is out of range. The cooldown reduction results in a cooldown still longer then snipe, but much better then now.  The extra 5 damage  per ally makes the payoff for the hefty nearby ally requirement a bit better relative to the consistent damage value of snipe]





Other Poster's Ideas:


I thought it would be a good idea to collect other alternative solutions other post in the thread up here in the OP:

 

From Volt_Cruelerz on Unity Mass:

....I think that could be a very fun ability and would make Unity Mass it's own beast instead of just trying to be an incompetent version of Snipe.  Heck, damage might have to be nerfed slightly to accommodate such a change, but I really think such a thing could be worthwhile.

 

 
Unity Mass right now:
 
Damage: 2500+65*50=5750
 
Unity Mass 2.0:
 
Damage: 2000+65*50=5250
AM: 150+3.5*50=325
 
 

End of quote

 

 

Conclusion:


Anyway, post your own ideas, thought on the Coronata, or feedback to other people's ideas here. 

30,283 views 47 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I think we may need to rethink the way we consider the Coronata..  

Note that due to the buff, Subjugating Assault is actually quite good against frigates.  Unity Mass on the other hand is something that specifically targets large targets.  Perhaps a better path would be to make it something that is more useful against starbases, capitals, and titans.  AM drain/disable abilities?  This would turn it into a utility tool and works well with the Coronata's current ability suite if you ask me.

I don't really know which one I like more, but in either case, it could be quite useful.  As I think about it more and more, I think what I'd like most would be to remove something like 150 AM+3.5 AM per nearby allied ship.  I think that could be a very fun ability and would make Unity Mass it's own beast instead of just trying to be an incompetent version of Snipe.  Heck, damage might have to be nerfed slightly to accommodate such a change, but I really think such a thing could be worthwhile.
 
Unity Mass right now:
 
Damage: 2500+65*50=5750
 
Unity Mass 2.0:
 
Damage: 2000+65*50=5250
AM: 150+3.5*50=325
 
 
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 1
I think we may need to rethink the way we consider the Coronata..  

Note that due to the buff, Subjugating Assault is actually quite good against frigates.  Unity Mass on the other hand is something that specifically targets large targets.  Perhaps a better path would be to make it something that is more useful against starbases, capitals, and titans.  AM drain/disable abilities?  This would turn it into a utility tool and works well with the Coronata's current ability suite if you ask me.

I don't really know which one I like more, but in either case, it could be quite useful.  As I think about it more and more, I think what I'd like most would be to remove something like 150 AM+3.5 AM per nearby allied ship.  I think that could be a very fun ability and would make Unity Mass it's own beast instead of just trying to be an incompetent version of Snipe.  Heck, damage might have to be nerfed slightly to accommodate such a change, but I really think such a thing could be worthwhile.
 
Unity Mass right now:
 
Damage: 2500+65*50=5750
 
Unity Mass 2.0:
 
Damage: 2000+65*50=5250
AM: 150+3.5*50=325
 
 
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

 

That would be pretty sexy too. Numbers may be a bit high as that sort of AM drain would even bottom out enemy titans fast(on that note I suppose the effect could also be lower against titans then cap ships). But I like the direction you're going, would encourage the Coronata to be the support titan it's meant to be.

 

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Originally, I had considered lower AM drains, but I figured since Det AM removes 208 AM and EMP removes 173 from all targets in radius, that an otherwise gratuitously large number really wouldn't be that gratuitous.

I'd be fine with bringing down both the damage and AM drain as the numbers I gave are probably OP, but I'd be hesitant to bring them down too much because then the Coronata gets outdone by the Radiance or Dunov.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 3
Originally, I had considered lower AM drains, but I figured since Det AM removes 208 AM and EMP removes 173 from all targets in radius, that an otherwise gratuitously large number really wouldn't be that gratuitous.

I'd be fine with bringing down both the damage and AM drain as the numbers I gave are probably OP, but I'd be hesitant to bring them down too much because then the Coronata gets outdone by the Radiance or Dunov.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

Hmm, true I suppose;  Though regardless, Unity Mass has both of those abilities beat hard on damage & the cooldown is much shorter then EMP(but to be fair as you noted it lacks the AoE & has no disable like DA).

 

In anycase certainly a very interesting idea.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I like both ideas, I am thankful that the devs buffed SA but I really hope they consider these as well Unity Mass is awful imho and I obv am an AL fanboy lol so come on devs show us some love!!

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Supssion aura alone makes the coronata awesome to me.  I never bother with subjigating assault.  My standard coronata is:

Suppression aura 4

Unity mass 4

Repossession 1

 

Psi reactive armor 4

Adaptive weapons 4

Psi containment 3

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting LogicSequence, reply 7
Supssion aura alone makes the coronata awesome to me. I never bother with subjigating assault. My standard coronata is:

Suppression aura 4

Unity mass 4

Repossession 1



Psi reactive armor 4

Adaptive weapons 4

Psi containment 3
End of LogicSequence's quote

 

Suppression Aura is indeed awesome but if you do not use subjugating assault you are missing out on some good times imho. Now that it is even more powerful you can steal the support ships of enemies effectively turning the tide of an entire battle, it also makes players weary to approach your titan with frigates =]

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I am not a heavy user but I did play several games in the beta and like the suggestions. I've always specced the Coronata for suppression/UM but after the buff decided to try out SA tonight. I discovered your first point very distinctly -- end game I had 4 points in SA but the AI was turtled up with a maxed Orkulus, titan, and capital ships which basically made those 4 points useless.

I don't mind that making it less effective, but I like the idea of the points being useful for _something_ even if small. Cool ideas mate.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

After some more though about UM draining AM, how about this..

Damage: 2000+45*50=4250
AM: 150+3*50=300

As mentioned before, while this may seem OP, consider that this is a titan ability when Det AM and EMP exist.  Also, something neglected earlier, this is something that requires a surrounding fleet to actually pull this off.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 10
After some more though about UM draining AM, how about this..

Damage: 2000+45*50=4250
AM: 150+3*50=300

As mentioned before, while this may seem OP, consider that this is a titan ability when Det AM and EMP exist. Also, something neglected earlier, this is something that requires a surrounding fleet to actually pull this off.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

 

I like it :grin:    this would help the titan to protect its fleet that it desperately needs to even achieve max damage in the first place

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting phoenixst8r, reply 8

approach your titan with frigates
End of phoenixst8r's quote

 

>approach your titan with frigates

>approach titan with frigates

>titan with frigates

>2012

 

I sure hope you are not doing that.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

I'm still advocating my original suggestion for Unity mass, where beams come off the initial target and do damage to nearby targets...this "damage chaining" would look something like charged missiles (different colors though) and would make it much different from snipe...

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Main issue with this ship is its Ugly!

 

"This ability is pretty much inferior to snipe- 1/2 the range, 3x the cooldown, and a hefty nearby unit requirement to deal it's full damage."

you comparing a loyalist ability with a Rebel one..  you should be comparing it to the Ankylon Titans abilitys

Disruption matrix etc.

 

Also comparing Ability to Ability is not fair.

Spawn 2x level 1 and 2x level 10 titans and have them fight each other, see which wins..

then compare again giving each side a small fleet..

then compare Balance.

 

You may find the Rebel titans beat the Loyalist titans in outright slug-fest but in a fleet engagement the Loyalists come out on top.

 

 

You could argue that Advent Radiance Detonate antimatter is Inferior to Gauss cannon on the Tec.... and it is!

Not every ability has to stand on its own

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

comparing them 1vs 1 the;

Coronata does

54 dps front
36 back
4 right
4 left

Ankylon does

22.9 dps front
21.3 back
33 left
33 right

at level 1 with no research the Ankylon wins simply because it starts with more health and Furious defense beats Unity Mass, but its seriously close

both at level 10 with all research in there respective faction... huh 

the Coronata's -40% dmg aura pretty much lets it Ignoor the Ankylon, it sits at 95-98% shields

the Ankylon looses all its shields and about 2000 hull then Furious defense keeps it alive.

 

add in 50 kodiak heavy cruisers on each side both attacking the others titan and the Coronata comes out the clear victor even with Ankylons level 5 ability buffing/debuffing

it actually mind controls about 10 of them before the fight is over, finishing off the entire fleet with 50% shields..

 

AND IT CAN CAPTURE PLANETS!!!

NERF!!!

 

so erm..... yea?

 

quick comparison with the Rebel Tec titan and its massive 151 frontal dps.... Even tho it should be compared with the Rebel Advent...

in 1 vs 1 at level 10 with max research the Coronata beats the Ragnarov with ¬300 hp left... despite Snipe!

so I don't get the complains?

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting silencedhawk, reply 15
comparing them 1vs 1 the;

Coronata does

54 dps front
36 back
4 right
4 left

Ankylon does

22.9 dps front
21.3 back
33 left
33 right

at level 1 with no research the Ankylon wins simply because it starts with more health and Furious defense beats Unity Mass, but its seriously close

both at level 10 with all research in there respective faction... huh 

the Coronata's -40% dmg aura pretty much lets it Ignoor the Ankylon, it sits at 95-98% shields

the Ankylon looses all its shields and about 2000 hull then Furious defense keeps it alive.

 

add in 50 kodiak heavy cruisers on each side both attacking the others titan and the Coronata comes out the clear victor even with Ankylons level 5 ability buffing/debuffing

it actually mind controls about 10 of them before the fight is over, finishing off the entire fleet with 50% shields..

 

AND IT CAN CAPTURE PLANETS!!!

NERF!!!

 

so erm..... yea?

 

quick comparison with the Rebel Tec titan and its massive 151 frontal dps.... Even tho it should be compared with the Rebel Advent...

in 1 vs 1 at level 10 with max research the Coronata beats the Ragnarov with ¬300 hp left... despite Snipe!

so I don't get the complains?
End of silencedhawk's quote

 

Because the game isn't about titan 1v1 capacity.  BY your logic the Vasari Rebel titan is the weakest titan in the game, which we all know is not true.

 

 If the opponent players smart the coronata simply can't contribute to real fleet battles as well as other titans.  Pretty much all it has going for it is suppression Aura- Unity mass is a much weaker snipe, and any points put in Subjugating Assault can be made utterly wasted by the opponent if they use a carrier fleet and keep their carriers parked safely o nthe far side of the gravity well with only their titan and maybe capitalships on the front line.

Most of the better titans have 2-3 strong abilities which are always useful and don't get heavily otuclassed in direct comparison to another titan's ability.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting silencedhawk, reply 14
You could argue that Advent Radiance Detonate antimatter is Inferior to Gauss cannon on the Tec.... and it is!
End of silencedhawk's quote

Detonate antimatter is not even comparable to GRG...they are completely different abilities that serve entirely different purposes...

Compare detonate antimatter to magnetize or emp or disruptive strikes....

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

Seleuceia that was kinda my point...   think my sarcasm kinda.. bounced

Quoting bilun, reply 16
If the opponent players smart the coronata simply can't contribute to real fleet battles as well as other titans.
End of bilun's quote

In big 100+ fleet engagements.... with Equal numbers the level 10 coronata beats almost all other titans because it cuts the other fleets damage by 40%

I tested :P

 

I really don't see the issues, It can Randomly capture very expensive Frigates and Cruisers, it can go Toe to Toe with pretty much every other titan (even Rebel dps titans) its Aura has a MASSIVE effect on large fleet engagements and can be used to protect things far more effectively that other loyalist titans And.... It can capture planets....

You want MORE! Yet you don't mind that its the most Ugly looking ship you have ever seen?

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

I think it's awesome looking actually.  Ugliest ship in the game is the Corsev and if you try to defend its appearance, we're going to assume that you just have a very strange taste in appearance.

That said, Suppression Aura is a beast of an ability and no one in their right mind would ever debate that.

Fact is, AL are underplayed.  The question we need to address is why.  UM flat out is a gimped Snipe in its current condition which is part of why I suggested nerfing the damage and giving AM drain, making it a unique ability.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting silencedhawk, reply 18
Seleuceia that was kinda my point...   think my sarcasm kinda.. bounced


Quoting bilun, reply 16 If the opponent players smart the coronata simply can't contribute to real fleet battles as well as other titans.

In big 100+ fleet engagements.... with Equal numbers the level 10 coronata beats almost all other titans because it cuts the other fleets damage by 40%

I tested

 

I really don't see the issues, It can Randomly capture very expensive Frigates and Cruisers, it can go Toe to Toe with pretty much every other titan (even Rebel dps titans) its Aura has a MASSIVE effect on large fleet engagements and can be used to protect things far more effectively that other loyalist titans And.... It can capture planets....

You want MORE! Yet you don't mind that its the most Ugly looking ship you have ever seen?
End of silencedhawk's quote

 

If the coronata's fleet won, the opponents were stupid.  If you tested it you either had a major oversight(such as trusting the AI to play well) or loaded the results.

 

The two most potent forms of damage in late game fleet battles: AoE damage and bomber damage are both ENTIRELY unaffected by the -40% damage.  The bomber aspect only gives the opponent MORE incentive to mass carrriers and keep them ata  distance to render subjugating assault useless.

 

 

In a fleet like that the coronata is basically reduced to one ability: Unity Mass, which as stated is an inferior version of the Ragnarov's Snipe.

 

So tell me, how do you figure unity mass contributes more to the fight then other titan's THREE abilities which are useful regardless of enemy fleet composition?

 

The problem witht he Coronata isn't that it's never useful, it's that it's usefulness is very narrow and the opponent can use strategy to avoid that purview of usefulness- this is the consequence of the Coronata being a One-trick-pony- which is a consequence of Suppression Aura being it's only good ability.  Yes, Suppression Aura is great, but frankly it alone is not enough to create a viable titan(mostly because the enemy can get around it by use of mass bombers).

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

I like the OP's ideas. The Coronata is by far the weakest Titan IMO and I feel sorry for the poor little psychic people inside who are going to die real soon.

At least when its rebuilt, those psychic people will still be able to contribute via sustained experience :grin:

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 19
I think it's awesome looking actually. Ugliest ship in the game is the Corsev and if you try to defend its appearance, we're going to assume that you just have a very strange taste in appearance.

That said, Suppression Aura is a beast of an ability and no one in their right mind would ever debate that.

Fact is, AL are underplayed. The question we need to address is why. UM flat out is a gimped Snipe in its current condition which is part of why I suggested nerfing the damage and giving AM drain, making it a unique ability.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

 

Thank you volt the coronata does indeed look awesome and wtf is the corsev I mean seriously lmao. On the issue of the AL being underplayed I believe bilun was absolutely correct in his other post about the AL. I mean why is fury of the unity even in the harmony tree?

 

Quoting bilun, reply 20
If the coronata's fleet won, the opponents were stupid. If you tested it you either had a major oversight(such as trusting the AI to play well) or loaded the results.



The two most potent forms of damage in late game fleet battles: AoE damage and bomber damage are both ENTIRELY unaffected by the -40% damage. The bomber aspect only gives the opponent MORE incentive to mass carrriers and keep them ata distance to render subjugating assault useless.





In a fleet like that the coronata is basically reduced to one ability: Unity Mass, which as stated is an inferior version of the Ragnarov's Snipe.



So tell me, how do you figure unity mass contributes more to the fight then other titan's THREE abilities which are useful regardless of enemy fleet composition?



The problem witht he Coronata isn't that it's never useful, it's that it's usefulness is very narrow and the opponent can use strategy to avoid that purview of usefulness- this is the consequence of the Coronata being a One-trick-pony- which is a consequence of Suppression Aura being it's only good ability. Yes, Suppression Aura is great, but frankly it alone is not enough to create a viable titan(mostly because the enemy can get around it by use of mass bombers).
End of bilun's quote

 

 

Could not agree more I play exclusively as AL and I have this problem time and time again, the coronata can not defend its fleet with suppression aura alone and once your fleet starts going down unity mass is made useless, esp as you have pointed out time and time again that they enemy will engage you with their caps and titan whilst their bombers sit on the far side of the well ready to jump at a moments notice, this setup which any competent opponent will have ready as they know your weakness, will render the coronata completely useless as it will be unable to defends its fleet, in gen the AL have a hard time going on the offensive more many reasons and need conditions to be very favorable for them to do so(mass culture bonuses etc) Getting six temples of hostility for Ancient Retribution, and then six temples of harmony for Fury of the Unity is a huge weakness of the AL, that combined with the limited options of their titan will end in defeat, I'm hoping that the next balance patch will show the AL some love

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

On paper, and in tests both Solo and in fleet battles (not using Exclusively carriers) Coronata does win where all other titans except VR Nano leech loose. 

Also its -67% speed aura at 5000 means you can Pin things (like carriers) that Kite other titans and don't forget it can capture a planet, this has to be one of the strongest Titan ability's

 

I guess I just don't play AL enough to see it Fail, I really don't spend points in Unity Mass till I have to.

Try playing with all your points in Shields > Suppression Aura > Subjugation > Repossession.

Lurk at the edge of Grav wells at jump in points, or simply charge fleets and pin them.

use Subjugation on cool and ignore caps.

If your fighting in a hostile well Repossession is unreal... start building!

 

 

 

I agree that AL need some love in general tho

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

Repossession during the middle of a battle won't be useful to you as your enemy will simply momentarily redirect a few fighters to kill your constructor.  You're seriously overestimating the value of that ability.  All it does it end games faster.  Bombing planets is a mere speedbump by the time you have an L6 titan and unless you're an idiot, you'll have a Progenitor with you (with a much better colonization bonus than the Coronata).

And you're also overestimating the value of the speed debuff.  That only is worthwhile if you can close the difference and titans are slow whereas carriers are fast.  It isn't hard to keep carriers out of its range in the first place so SA can't even take effect.

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 24
Bombing planets is a mere speedbump by the time you have an L6 titan and unless you're an idiot, you'll have a Progenitor with you (with a much better colonization bonus than the Coronata).
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

Taking the planet instantly serves two purposes:

  1. Immediately ends the enemies' ability to use their factories at the planet
  2. Capital ships can repress enemy culture in friendly and neutral gravity wells...they cannot repress culture in enemy wells, though...changing the ownership immediately to you allows you flip the culture, something you could not do if it was still an enemy well

In most situations I'd agree that the ability is a mere convenience more than anything else...but at fortified worlds being able to flip the culture is invaluable, and the only other way to do that (assuming the enemy culture wasn't overrun to begin with) would be with a deliverance engine...

As for suppression...personally?  I'd rather take the Ankylon's defensive buff, but that's just me...

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 25

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 24Bombing planets is a mere speedbump by the time you have an L6 titan and unless you're an idiot, you'll have a Progenitor with you (with a much better colonization bonus than the Coronata).

Taking the planet instantly serves two purposes:


Immediately ends the enemies' ability to use their factories at the planet
Capital ships can repress enemy culture in friendly and neutral gravity wells...they cannot repress culture in enemy wells, though...changing the ownership immediately to you allows you flip the culture, something you could not do if it was still an enemy well

In most situations I'd agree that the ability is a mere convenience more than anything else...but at fortified worlds being able to flip the culture is invaluable, and the only other way to do that (assuming the enemy culture wasn't overrun to begin with) would be with a deliverance engine...

 

End of Seleuceia's quote

Very good points.  My only complaint with repossession is that it is IMO a bit circumstantial for a level 6 ability... that said I think there are much more pressing issues with the  coronata.



As for suppression...personally?  I'd rather take the Ankylon's defensive buff, but that's just me...
End of quote

You and me both.  The Ankylon's ability affects AoE and eve more importantly strikecraft damage.  Kind of silly that an ability supposed to mitigate incoming weapons damage against your fleet doesn't affect the single most dangerous late game weapons in the game(bombers).

 

That said, while many would prefer the Ankylon's ability, I think most can agree suppression Aura is a very strong ability- So I'd be given to addressing the Coronata's weakness by buffing it's more lackluster abilities rather then fooling around with Suppression Aura.