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Coronata Titan Feedback

Coronata Titan Feedback

 

I'm glad to see the Coronata is starting to get some attention with the recent Subjugating Assault buff.  That said, the Coronata still has some pretty severe unaddressed issues.

The Problems:

First off, while the buff to subjugating assault is nice, one fundamental flaw of the ability is still present: It does absolutely nothing against capitalships/titans.  The problem with this is that due to the scaling, subjugating Assault needs a heavy skillpoint investment to be come dependable.   But once you invest those points the opponent can make this investment utterly wasted simply by using a carrier-heavy fleet which they park on the far side of the gravity well, keeping only capitalships and titans on the frontline.  And frankly this strategy is very strong in general so it's not like the opponent is sacrificing much by doing so.  

Obviously Subjugating assault shouldn't ever steal capitalships, but it could easily be given an alternate effect when the coronata attacks capitalships.

 

 

The other large issue is Unity Mass.  This ability is pretty much inferior to snipe- 1/2 the range, 3x the cooldown, and a hefty nearby unit requirement to deal it's full damage.  The range in particular is nasty as it makes it difficult to use unity mass as an opener when the enemy hasn't yet built up shield mitigation and if used on a fleeing ship, often the fleeing ship is out of range before the Coronata turns to face them.

 

My Proposed Solutions:


#1).  Subjugating Assault:  Add "When attacking capitalships with Subjugating Assault active, each hit of the coronata's weapon systems additionally drains 2/3/4/5 Antimatter"

[comments:  This idea has been bouncing around the forums for awhile and it's perfect IMO.  It makes the ability decent against capitalships, but still better against frigates(a stolen frigate takes about as long as draining 33 AM from capitalships(and that 33 is likely divided between 3-4 ships)).]


#2) Unity Mass:  make this ability omnidirectional, reduce cooldown to 15 seconds, and increase bonus damage per ally by 5 at all ranks

[comments:  The ability being omnidirectional makes up for the lack of range compared to snipe as it will mean the coronata doesn't have to turn to fire, meaning it can reliably fire on a fleeing ship before said ship is out of range. The cooldown reduction results in a cooldown still longer then snipe, but much better then now.  The extra 5 damage  per ally makes the payoff for the hefty nearby ally requirement a bit better relative to the consistent damage value of snipe]





Other Poster's Ideas:


I thought it would be a good idea to collect other alternative solutions other post in the thread up here in the OP:

 

From Volt_Cruelerz on Unity Mass:

....I think that could be a very fun ability and would make Unity Mass it's own beast instead of just trying to be an incompetent version of Snipe.  Heck, damage might have to be nerfed slightly to accommodate such a change, but I really think such a thing could be worthwhile.

 

 
Unity Mass right now:
 
Damage: 2500+65*50=5750
 
Unity Mass 2.0:
 
Damage: 2000+65*50=5250
AM: 150+3.5*50=325
 
 

End of quote

 

 

Conclusion:


Anyway, post your own ideas, thought on the Coronata, or feedback to other people's ideas here. 

30,317 views 47 replies
Reply #26 Top

I'm still pushing for chaining damage with unity mass...

Time to become a broken record...

Reply #27 Top

I haven't had a chance to try this yet but can't you gank a planet using repossession and if you have the global unity upgrade (or which ever one causes your planets to auto spread culture) get your in culture bonuses while on the offensive?  I'm at work and can't try it  

 

Edited for property ability names :/

Reply #28 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 26
I'm still pushing for chaining damage with unity mass...

Time to become a broken record...
End of Seleuceia's quote

I did try to mod that once.  For whatever reason, I couldn't get it to even damage the other enemies, let alone display the chain lightning (which we all know would look awesome).

I may take another look at it tomorrow.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 26
I'm still pushing for chaining damage with unity mass...

Time to become a broken record...
End of Seleuceia's quote

 

Would certainly be a useful addition(any multitarget damage generally is for the advent with Malic)- that said I think I like Volt's idea  a bit better- it's more distinct for the Eradica for one(which is to say the Eradica is all about AoE damage).

Reply #30 Top

I really like the idea, that the culture upgrades of Advents can boost the max allegiance!

And I have some additional ideas:

- Repossession: what about if the occupied planets can have a culture boost in some time, say 6 minutes?

- Unity Mass: I think one of the effective way to "buff" it is to nerf the Snipe. Well, it would only be OK if Chastic Burst is also nerfed...

Reply #31 Top

thing is when a Ragnarov Titan jumps I don't think OMG SNIPE IS GOING TO KILL EVERYTHING...

 

I think oh... a kinda Pointless titan that doesn't do that much, and then down it goes... pooft no big deal, it just does damage witch I can Mitigate really easly and repair back up

 

When I see a Coronata Titan jump in I think Oh crap, I am going to loose the planet I need to send over ships to bomb it back, I need to send over a Mothership, and crap I need to stay out of its range and aaaaarggh I am loosing ships to Mind control.

A Coronata is a big deal I have to work to Counter it and it costs me... I can't Mitigate mind control I can't heal up from the loss of a planet, I can't just jump everything on it and burn it down before it does anything

 

Its one of the titans I fear!

 

imo.. Buff Snipe  make it have a 10% chance to Kill a frigate/cruiser

Reply #32 Top

Quoting silencedhawk, reply 32
thing is when a Ragnarov Titan jumps I don't think OMG SNIPE IS GOING TO KILL EVERYTHING...

 

I think oh... a kinda Pointless titan that doesn't do that much, and then down it goes... pooft no big deal, it just does damage witch I can Mitigate really easly and repair back up

 

When I see a Coronata Titan jump in I think Oh crap, I am going to loose the planet I need to send over ships to bomb it back, I need to send over a Mothership, and crap I need to stay out of its range and aaaaarggh I am loosing ships to Mind control.

A Coronata is a big deal I have to work to Counter it and it costs me... I can't Mitigate mind control I can't heal up from the loss of a planet, I can't just jump everything on it and burn it down before it does anything

 

Its one of the titans I fear!

 

imo.. Buff Snipe  make it have a 10% chance to Kill a frigate/cruiser
End of silencedhawk's quote

There is no reason that you should be having that much trouble with the Coronata and Snipe/the Ragnarov in general is not underpowered.

Reply #33 Top

So I just ahd an interesting thought on another less conventional direction direction Coronata buffs could take.

 

 

What if Suppression Aura gained the following secondary effect:

 

 

Suppression Aura: In addition to the current effect, the culture output of all enemy culture buildings in whatever gravity well the Coronata inhabits are reduced by 50/60/70/80%.

 

Certainly wouldn't fix the Coronata on it's own, but would be one more step towards making culture warfare actually a viable strategy for the Advent Loyalists.  Probably not nearly as important as changes to other skills, but I thought I'd post the idea here just because it popped into my head and seems interesting.

 

 

Then again, this bonus would largely be trivialized once the Coronata gains level 6 and can instantly steal a planet.  Well even if the change doesn't really pan out it's food for thought.

Reply #34 Top

If you want to go with culture warfare, I've been advocating Clairvoyance getting culture spread from the target planet since early Diplo and stuck it in Rebalanced Races.  That's something I've always felt was something that would be good for the game but probably too drastic for the devs to implement.  That said, an AL starting with a Revelation and culture-bombing the enemy early-on could actually be pretty useful.  By the time the enemy is building their culture structures to try to halt the spread by your Revelation, you've already got some temples up and are pushing harder, softening up their border worlds.

Anyways, I'd really rather not buff Suppression Aura at this point.  It really is a great ability.  True, the Ankylon has better, but that's active whereas SA is passive.

Reply #35 Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 35
If you want to go with culture warfare, I've been advocating Clairvoyance getting culture spread from the target planet since early Diplo and stuck it in Rebalanced Races.  That's something I've always felt was something that would be good for the game but probably too drastic for the devs to implement.  That said, an AL starting with a Revelation and culture-bombing the enemy early-on could actually be pretty useful.  By the time the enemy is building their culture structures to try to halt the spread by your Revelation, you've already got some temples up and are pushing harder, softening up their border worlds.

Anyways, I'd really rather not buff Suppression Aura at this point.  It really is a great ability.  True, the Ankylon has better, but that's active whereas SA is passive.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

 

aye I by and large actually agree- as I said, mostly just posted the idea because I'd thought of it and it may be food for thought regardless of it's actual relevance.

 

That said for your idea regarding adding culture to clairvoyance- doesn't it get easily stopped the same way most early culture pushes do: by the inevitably use of the opponent's capitalships for culture repel?

Reply #36 Top

Ultimately, an enemy could likely stomp out your cultural influence from the ability, but with all the research the AL has for culture, it could help the AL gain an early lead, even before you get temples up if you start with the Revelation.  No one would have temples, meaning that you would gain cultural superiority immediately, forcing your enemy to forgo logistics slots for civic labs to bring out culture centers, turning culture warfare into a standard component of battle very early on, something the AL excels in.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 35
I've been advocating Clairvoyance getting culture spread from the target planet since early Diplo and stuck it in Rebalanced Races.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

Actually I prefer Revelation be able to repel hostile culture instead of spreading friendly one.

And I really hope that Coronata can be a huge mobile media center, to spread and repel cultures.

Quoting silencedhawk, reply 32
I can't Mitigate mind control I can't heal up from the loss of a planet, I can't just jump everything on it and burn it down before it does anything
End of silencedhawk's quote

@Volt_Cruelerz: I think this is the general feeling of SP players. Generally they dislike everything inevitable, though maybe they are actually under-powered.

And I don't think only light users will think like that. Comparing to WarCraft III and StarCraft, both rarely have "inevitable" skills. There is a hero which also can "steal" units, and if I'm correct, it's the only one.

Sorry I always incline to compare Sins with WCIII and SC, but they are the most successful e-sport RTS, and both are well-balanced. I think both are good examples to show why Blizzard doesn't like those cool but inevitable skills.

Reply #38 Top

CHAINING DAMAGE

CHAINING DAMAGE

CHAINING DAMAGE

Let the broken record begin...

Reply #39 Top

Quoting gundamlit, reply 38

@Volt_Cruelerz: I think this is the general feeling of SP players. Generally they dislike everything inevitable, though maybe they are actually under-powered.

And I don't think only light users will think like that. Comparing to WarCraft III and StarCraft, both rarely have "inevitable" skills. There is a hero which also can "steal" units, and if I'm correct, it's the only one.

Sorry I always incline to compare Sins with WCIII and SC, but they are the most successful e-sport RTS, and both are well-balanced. I think both are good examples to show why Blizzard doesn't like those cool but inevitable skills.
End of gundamlit's quote

It isn't inevitable and can be stopped.  Problem is majority if SP people don't know how to play well.  Same reason Novalith got a build cap.  #:(


CHAINING DAMAGE

CHAINING DAMAGE

Let the broken record begin...
End of quote

At that point, what's the difference between using UM and Chastic Burst?

Reply #40 Top

I actually want chastic burst to be changed from just raw damage, mainly because it is just a simple AoE that is way too powerful...I'm thinking less damage and an interesting debuff, though I haven't decided on one yet...

Unity Mass, on the other hand, is unique because it's power depends on the number of nearby ships....not only could the damage be dependent on this number, but perhaps the number of chained targets as well...

Plus it could look COOL....like adding more lazers and rainbows to the Kol....

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 40
Same reason Novalith got a build cap.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

I'm still hoping for the limit of one, where one novalith uses the make dead modifier and insta kills any planet it hits (no SB protection)...can you tell I don't play capital victory?

Reply #41 Top

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 40
It isn't inevitable and can be stopped.
End of Volt_Cruelerz's quote

But even in both StarCraft and WarCraft III there are no skills for mass instant kill? There are single-target instant kill (occupation and something like that), but no mass instant kill.

So that's the reason I dislike The Maw with Subjugation Assault / Repossession / Wail of the Sacrifice / TEC red buttons, though each one has its own problems. Sins has already too much instant kills; and now you see, all of them produce their own balancing problems.

I still insist on my idea, i.e. these things, with also Strip to the Core / mobile SB / ... are cool in the campaigns, but are totally disastrous for skirmishes (especially for MPs); they are all balancing nightmares.

Reply #42 Top

Quoting gundamlit, reply 42
But even in both StarCraft and WarCraft III there are no skills for mass instant kill? There are single-target instant kill (occupation and something like that), but no mass instant kill.

So that's the reason I dislike The Maw with Subjugation Assault / Repossession / Wail of the Sacrifice / TEC red buttons, though each one has its own problems. Sins has already too much instant kills; and now you see, all of them produce their own balancing problems.

I still insist on my idea, i.e. these things, with also Strip to the Core / mobile SB / ... are cool in the campaigns, but are totally disastrous for skirmishes (especially for MPs); they are all balancing nightmares.
End of gundamlit's quote

The way I've got it set up, Clairvoyance doesn't spread culture until level 2.  That's actually a fairly significant amount of time and really, it only works if the map is set up in a way that's conducive to it because the Revelation doesn't support it's fleet like other capitals.  Doing this applies pressure, but it is entirely possible for the enemy to break out of that, either by breaking through your relatively weak defenses (they have capitals that are better in combat than you) or simply build a few culture centers and call it a day.

I will say though that last night I found that I had this buff stacking infinitely which would be very problematic on larger maps.  I'll be changing that.

 

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 41
I actually want chastic burst to be changed from just raw damage, mainly because it is just a simple AoE that is way too powerful...I'm thinking less damage and an interesting debuff, though I haven't decided on one yet...

Unity Mass, on the other hand, is unique because it's power depends on the number of nearby ships....not only could the damage be dependent on this number, but perhaps the number of chained targets as well...

Plus it could look COOL....like adding more lazers and rainbows to the Kol....


Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 40Same reason Novalith got a build cap.

I'm still hoping for the limit of one, where one novalith uses the make dead modifier and insta kills any planet it hits (no SB protection)...can you tell I don't play capital victory?
End of Seleuceia's quote

I fully agree with you about the cool factor.  I just don't agree with the use.  When you first suggested it, I did really like the idea, so much so that I tried to do it.  As time went on however, I grew to like the idea less and less.  Unity Mass's lore is that it focuses the hatred of the Unity on one ship.

Reply #43 Top

Could have Unity mass Deal its lowish damage and also Mind control the target for 10 seconds.

works on Capitals and Modules?

 

tho this could have all sorts of World of Warcraft PvP mind control Issues.... eg. You could end up healing the ship and buffing it.

 

I don't think damage is the solution, imo the titan is not the issue

 

Having the Deliverance Engine capture hostile media hubs / temples etc could be nice.

At the moment TEC can totally wipe out a planet with a few shots of there super weapon requiring a star base just to keep the planet alive, and cripple your income

Vasari can Cripple your defenses and if the player chains them in can perma stun for a casual 1 ship conquest.

But Advent just shoot pointless bolts of worthless rubbish that only need 1 media hub every other planet to counter.

Give VL a Cannon that Does something!

 

Before Rebellion I remember a few 8 player 100+ planet maps where I built about 20 of the stupid things.. and didn't get even 1 planet

Reply #44 Top

the only problem with coronata is that reposession can't be used in combo with wail of the sacrificed from the advent rebels tech 

seriously imagine we have a more epic version of Argonev's  PUSH THE <BEEP> RED BUTTON!:p

Reply #45 Top

Quoting runesia, reply 45
the only problem with coronata is that reposession can't be used in combo with wail of the sacrificed from the advent rebels tech 

seriously imagine we have a more epic version of Argonev's  PUSH THE <BEEP> RED BUTTON!
End of runesia's quote

 

Repossession doesn't preserve population- when you repossesse a world it starts at 0 populations & upgrades as though ti had been normally colonized.  Also to use Wail you need to build a culture structure, so you could never use it in a one-two combo.

 

 

not to mention Wail is a rebel tech and coronata is the loyal titan.  

Reply #46 Top

Quoting silencedhawk, reply 44
But Advent just shoot pointless bolts of worthless rubbish that only need 1 media hub every other planet to counter.

Give VL a Cannon that Does something!

Before Rebellion I remember a few 8 player 100+ planet maps where I built about 20 of the stupid things.. and didn't get even 1 planet
End of silencedhawk's quote

We agree that the DE is the weakest of the three and could use a buff.  That said, you're treating the Kostura like it is a worthless gun.  it's not the stun that is powerful.  It opens a phase node to the target planet, allowing you to jump across systems straight to the target planet.  The Kostura is by far the most powerful of the superweapons.  Novaliths can be countered easily (well, the planet loss anyways..  The trade loss will still hurt) but Kosturas can't be effectively countered.

 

Reply #47 Top

Quoting bilun, reply 46
Repossession doesn't preserve population
End of bilun's quote

This doesn't fit with the lore of the ability. Repossession takes planets intact so population and upgrades should be preserved.

The OPs proposals for Subjugating Assault and Unity Mass seem good, although the proposed AM drain should also apply to enemy Titans, not just cap ships.