Sins rebellion + Steam

ya. sadface. but true.

sins has gone to the dark side.

Well, Rebellion is a steamworks game, the fact that it isn't in beta anymore doesn't change that fact. This is why it was such a big deal when they announced that before the beta started. I'm afraid you're a little late for that conversation.

The point isn't really that the game is steamworks, I realise that some games are just destined for steam. I'm just curious as to why Stardock would blatantly violate their Gamer Bill of Rights, something I had some degree of faith in. I mean, if the dev studio that created it can't even follow it then what hope do we have for the future of gaming. Placing Rebellion on steam was undoubtedly a bad move for all gamers as it is DRM, no matter how you twist it.

I know the Witcher 2 was published by Bandai Namco and it came with a significant amount of DRM, but CD Projekt promptly moved the game over to GOG when they could and the game has enjoyed significant success as a result. I would appreciate Rebellion doing something similar, a no-DRM alternative.

I think one reason why they choose steam was because of steamworks, and all the already available netcode. Now I don't know if this was the reason ICO choose steam, but I know other game companies have switched over to steam for this reason.

Here's more info on steamworks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%28software%29#Steamworks

For example, take supreme commander 2. From what I read, Gas Powered Games dropped their GPGnet system in favor of steam because of steamworks.  I believe one of their guys said that steamworks was incredibly convenient.

Furthermore, I'd also like to point out the massive user base of steam. Games that get on steam get tons of exposure, letting players know about games they may have never heard of. To be honest, I'm one of those players. Back when Sins of a Solar Empire Trinity first came to steam, I had no idea such a game existed. But as I was browsing through strategy titles, I came across. Never heard of it before, but after reading about it, I was intrigued. Bought it on a steam sale, and I've been a fan of Sins ever since.

EDIT: About DRM:

I'll be honest with you, what's so bad about it? Don't get me wrong, clunky DRM like Origin is utterly horrendous. But for me, Steam has a DRM that works pretty smoothly and it's a terrible pain to deal with. While some people may have issues with offline mode, it's always worked like a charm for me. Assuming it's not an EA game...

I'm not saying its a bad question, I'm saying they already answered if you look on the forums on the threads that popped up at the time.

Of course maybe steam would be easier to swallow if we actually got leaderboards with Rebellion, but oh well.

I personally find origin to be an incredibly smooth and wonderful third party manager. Aside from all that personal snooping. If it didn't have that it would be the best download manager around in my opinion. 

That alone expresses the subjective nature behind third party managers, someone's heaven is someone else's hell. The only solution is to abandon it all. The key here is the absolute destruction of Stardock's Gamers Bill of Rights by introducing Rebellion purely to steamworks.

Fair enough. I suppose the curx of the issue here is the Gamers Bill of Rights.

FYI: http://www.reghardware.com/2008/09/01/gamers_bill_of_rights/

It lists the 10 points near the bottom.

Also, two revisions were made to it:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/17/stardock_revises_gamer_bill_of_rights/

Back on topic:

In the above posts however, I did not see anything that mentioned the absence of third party software. From what I read and understood, the Bill is not anti-DRM, rather it is anti-BAD DRM. Unless they have an even newer version of the Bill that I am not aware of, I don't see where you got the idea of no third party software.

In fact in the second article, I quote:

"Stardock's position isn't anti-DRM or anti-copy protection but rather anti-stupid-DRM and anti-stupid-copy protection," wrote Stardock CEO Brad Wardell in the customer report.

Honestly I don't think of Steam as a "3rd party download manager" for Sins.  Steamworks is an integral part of the game and of the code.  So it's more of a "1st party" software required.  Just happens to be Steam.  So Sins requires Steam simply because it uses Steamworks.  Elemental doesn't appear to be using Steamworks so while it will most likely be available on Steam to buy, Steam won't be required.  Now if they decide to do multiplayer it may go the same way where if they use Steamworks then again, Steam will be required.  

I don't see this as a violation.  And frankly who really cares.  You either like the game and want to buy it or you don't.  Easy enough.

1st party by definition means that it was developed by the same company. Since steam was not made Stardock I don't see how it can ever not be considered 3rd party until one buys out the other. Just like Stardocks Windows enhancements are classified as 3rd party addons because they weren't made by Microsoft. Its really not a debatable definition.

And Steam is hardly an integral part of Sins code. Trinity did not use Steamworks, the only thing you'd notice different from it is that your online win/loss record is tied to your steam account. That and I suppose saved achievements and cloud saves/screenshots is the only thing I can find that Steam support added. And while its nice for the smurf problem to be solved I think they really should have done more to justify steamworks.

No one would care if it wasn't steamworks and they just sold it on Steam. But steamworks is a huge let down if for whatever reason you don't like the platform, or even if you sort of like it but would rather live without it.

I use to have a real negative view towards steam but over the years its been nothing but great.

It being a steamworks title is a bonus and not a negative to me personally (achievments,etc..)

The feelings are likewise for me. At the same time though, I could argue the reliance of steamworks makes it a steam exclusive. Even if you buy Sins Rebellion at gamestop, you still have to download steam to play it. In that sense, steam holds exclusivity over a game. As far as how this translates into profit though, I'm not sure.

Do you know that steams knows every single piece of software that's installed on your system by windows? Can you tell me why the fuck it's any of their business? If the purpose of steam was to thwart piracy, lol, I could maybe go with that, but honestly I'm not retarded.

Host a website and run some analytics and you'll see just how much info a person's web browser just hands over to the website it is browing to.  The pivacy you seem to value hasn't existed with internet-connected PC's for a long time now.

Thx for for copying StarDock's intentions why they use steam, GoaFann77.

But every point FrogBoy listed that belonged to a modern game is nothing i need.

I loved Sins, i loved Entrenchment, i loved Diplomacy, but i am not going to buy Rebellion as long as it's coupled to stearm...

Hopefully we'll find it on gog in a few years. Until the we just have to play something else *shrug*

Ok, that's true. Should I care? Don't get me wrong, Valve is defiantly in a position of power, but unless you have proof that Gabe Newell and valve has some sort of conspiracy plot going on, I'm not terribly concerned. If it means getting good games on a great platform that offers a centralized and streamlined experience, it's worth sacrificing a bit of privacy. Now tell me that Valve is doing malicious/distasteful things with that private data, and I might change my mind.

Why do people have such hate towards Steam? It's a game updating client and a game store all in one.

I didn't find leaving Steam on for Rebellion to work annoying at all, because Rebellion seems to be tied to Steam. Steam is nice because it runs at Window's start up, (By the way, you can use msconfig.exe to change that) then it'll update your game automatically, and it will *ding* when it finished. It tells me when my friends are on, and has an in-game web browser.

*Speaking personally*

People have requested for years for the features that Steamworks offered.  I understand the points people make against Steam, but an incredible number of people like and use Steam.

Exactly!

I'm one of those people.

I've been using Steam for many years now and have no issues with it at all. I'm not clear though on what features of Steamworks Rebellion is offering that people requested though. Steamworks is usually about MP. The only feature going from Trinity to Rebellion that is different in MP is that your friends are now tied to Steam so you add them on Steam and have them in your friends list on ICO at the same time. Other than that, the MP functionality of ICO with Steamworks has not changed at all unless I am missing something. Features that Steamworks usually brings to games these days includes being able to actually invite those friends directly into your matches and having an automatch system/ladder rankings. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed in getting Rebellion at all, but I find it pretty disingenous to use Steamworks as a selling feature and to say that we are using it because people requested its features, when in reality, the full features of Steamworks are not being used at all. Besides just having a friends list on Steam, what are these new features?

@Ekkko_Tek

To be fair, for all we know, the entire netcode could've been reworked behind the scenes. While it may look the same, they have redone the code and used steamworks in it's place. Of course though, I don't have decompiled code of trinity and rebellion, so I'm not sure just how extensive steamorks has been integrated into the netcode.

Even if that is so, it has nothing to do with new features via Steamworks based on player requests. The MP portion of the game does not have any new features except for integration of Steam friends in a list. It doesn't even incorporate as basic a feature as Steamworks ability to invite a friend directly into your game. This is really my only criticism of the game - everything else is great, but the "uses Steamworks features" selling point is laughable. There have been multiple threads on the forum about what features players would like for the MP portion and how little it has changed since Trinity and Steamworks really did not bring anything new in that respect.

You can say the same about Impulse. But Impulse itself is no drm. you do not have to have impulse running when you want to play your games you bought on impulse. Actually you dont even need to have impulse installed

Two digital purchase/Download platforms are enough for me - i do not hate steam, i just dont want another platform...

While I agree (and like Steam), IMO game should have used more Steamworks features (like Steam Workshop).

First off when it comes to rebellion steam is not 3rd party it is 1st party because of steamworks rebellion would not function online without as the old system has been removed and for the record steamworks does a much better job than the old system.

Now on to steam itself WOW why the hate? Steam rocks, for many reasons its comunity system, its store, update, backup, its has offline, (althought I have never understood why someone would use that) tech support base, forums, a very effective security system (if you go to the trouble to understand how it works and use it). All in all it is an amazing system that does all that and reliably.

The big three evil letters DRM that so many people seem to fear don't really bother me under certain conditions.

1. There is a reasonable cost to results ratio.

2. The developers are willing to keep price of affected games down because they are comfortable with the perceived level of protection from said DRM.

3. Last but by no means least. The DRM does not get in the way of my game enjoyment.

Steam by itself accomplishes all three of these on its own, the fact that some of these publishers are sticking or leaving their own awefull forms of DRM in games on top of the steam system is another topic. BTW I am all for going after these companies that do such underhanded bs.

Really? For the hundreds of players playing online and the thousands playing offline, Sins Rebellion works perfectly for us. A shame it doesn't work for you though. "Points at tech support forum"