Some basic mechanics I don't understand

The steam version didn't come with a manual

from Sins Forums

I just heard about sins a week ago and bought rebellion with a friend so we can have some RTS fun. However as a nerd I am irked enough by my lack of knowledge of a few things that I am driven to the forums. 

*Damage Numbers-what do the numbers mean? As vasari, I need to pick where to put my credits into research, phase missiles or lazers or waves. When I look at my ship and see (X) phase missile and (Y) wave damage, is that per second, per shot? Do I need to multiply that number by how many are shooting out? I don't know what is doing most of my damage, so I don't know what ships do more or what to boost.

 

*Phase missiles-I think I can cap out at a 55% chance for missiles to skip a shield. I don't see any point to this: in every situation I can imagine, the ships shield will be depleted via non-skipping missiles and all the other damage flying around before the hull HP hits zero. As long as the ship's shield hits 0 before the hull does, there was no point whatsoever in some of your dammage hitting the hull before the shield went down. The only explination that I was able to find is that shield mitigation might apply to hull damage even after the shield is down, and phasing missiles might get around that mitigation, is this true?

 

*Bombers-how much do they really do? On my starbase I have to pick between Adding lazers and adding bombers, which gets me more bang for my buck? I've seen a bomber squad do ~100 damage to a light frigate, but they have a long time between attacks. I know they aren't trash, but how much should I focus on strikecraft over regular damage?

 

*Shield mitigation-it is usually 15% when not buffed, but sometimes I see ships (mine or enemy) with above 60%. I saw it on my vasari capital ship once before I had done any research, so I have no clue what is up with that.

 

I could ask all day, but I figured I would throw out my most pressing ones. Until I have an idea about these I don't even know what ships to buy or what to research.

5,889 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

The damage is damage per second. For Vasari, you normally want to upgrade phase missiles, as they give the best overall DPS boost due to negating shields. Your Kanrak Assailants, Strike Craft, most Capital Ships, and Corvettes benefit from them. Try to boost them first.

As phase missiles upgrade, they negate shields and shield mitigation, which effectively causes a flat damage rate to the target's hull. This is effectively the biggest damage boost in the entire game! In time, the shields do get knocked out, but if the hull gets hit first, then the target will be destroyed. It's an enormous benefit.

Bombers are extremely effective against buildings, Heavy Cruisers, Capitals, and Titans. They're not too effective with only a few squads, but once you reach a 'critical mass' of Bombers (About 100 Squadrons or so), they'll pop just about anything. With your Starbase, you're generally better off upgrading its weapons or building Fighter SC- the Fighters counter Bombers and Anti-Structure ships (The Orgrov Torpedo Cruiser and the Solanus Adjudicator).

Shield mitigation increases as the target takes damage. It's a great help with keeping your shielded ships alive. Vasari and TEC structures never recieve shield mitigation (Only their Starbases), while Advent structures can be upgraded with shields. Fighters and Bombers never have shields, so they don't recieve shield mitigation.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

*Bombers-how much do they really do? On my starbase I have to pick between Adding lazers and adding bombers, which gets me more bang for my buck? I've seen a bomber squad do ~100 damage to a light frigate, but they have a long time between attacks. I know they aren't trash, but how much should I focus on strikecraft over regular damage?
End of quote

Swordsalmon got the main thing, I just want to explain why you should get weapons more. One, your Vasari starbase moves, meaning it can't be sniped out of range like any other starbase. Two, you starbase gets phase missiles, which upgraded are the best weapon type in the game as explained. Three and most important, your starbase can fire at at least 4 target is every direction, or between 16-20 targets in completely surrounded. Adding an extra weapon is thus much more effective than 4 strikecraft, even though strikecraft aren't bad at all.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top


I just heard about sins a week ago and bought rebellion with a friend so we can have some RTS fun. However as a nerd I am irked enough by my lack of knowledge of a few things that I am driven to the forums. 

*Damage Numbers-what do the numbers mean? As vasari, I need to pick where to put my credits into research, phase missiles or lazers or waves. When I look at my ship and see (X) phase missile and (Y) wave damage, is that per second, per shot? Do I need to multiply that number by how many are shooting out? I don't know what is doing most of my damage, so I don't know what ships do more or what to boost.

 

*Phase missiles-I think I can cap out at a 55% chance for missiles to skip a shield. I don't see any point to this: in every situation I can imagine, the ships shield will be depleted via non-skipping missiles and all the other damage flying around before the hull HP hits zero. As long as the ship's shield hits 0 before the hull does, there was no point whatsoever in some of your dammage hitting the hull before the shield went down. The only explination that I was able to find is that shield mitigation might apply to hull damage even after the shield is down, and phasing missiles might get around that mitigation, is this true?

 

*Bombers-how much do they really do? On my starbase I have to pick between Adding lazers and adding bombers, which gets me more bang for my buck? I've seen a bomber squad do ~100 damage to a light frigate, but they have a long time between attacks. I know they aren't trash, but how much should I focus on strikecraft over regular damage?

 

*Shield mitigation-it is usually 15% when not buffed, but sometimes I see ships (mine or enemy) with above 60%. I saw it on my vasari capital ship once before I had done any research, so I have no clue what is up with that.

 

I could ask all day, but I figured I would throw out my most pressing ones. Until I have an idea about these I don't even know what ships to buy or what to research.

End of quote

 

You're absolutely going to want phase missiles against Advent players. They have the most powerful shields, powerful shield regeneration abilities and the highest shield mitigation out of all races which can be increased in a number of ways.

The way shield mitigation works is that it gets higher the more your shield gets shot at, I believe the conversion is for every 10 points of shield damage, your shield mitigation raises by 1%?

Advent players can reach over 75% shield mitigation ( I believe in the 80% range ), matched with their shield regeneration capabilities, you're going to be loving those phase missiles.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Wow, thanks for all the quick and helpful explanations.

 

From what you say, strikecraft become very strong at high numbers (I can imagine this, as they could take out a capital ship every pass with enough numbers I imagine). I guess I could choose to build that way. But if I ended up not focusing on strikecraft (say I only have 20 in a large fleet), would it be better then to just use fighters as an anti-bomber force? Or some mix?

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Generally speaking, bombers are best at offense and fighters are best at defense.

Also, mitigation rises 1% for every 10 damage taken by the target and automatically drops by 1.25% every second.  Tthe maximum mitigation anyone can hit is the Advent Loyalists in culture with all research on a level 10 capital.  IIRC, it's 88%.  A ship under such circumstances is only taking 12% of incoming damage.  In other words, it can shrug off any damage to shields you throw at it.  Phase Missiles laugh in the face of mitigation and completely ignore it.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting vulpixel, reply 5
Wow, thanks for all the quick and helpful explanations.

 

From what you say, strikecraft become very strong at high numbers (I can imagine this, as they could take out a capital ship every pass with enough numbers I imagine). I guess I could choose to build that way. But if I ended up not focusing on strikecraft (say I only have 20 in a large fleet), would it be better then to just use fighters as an anti-bomber force? Or some mix?
End of vulpixel's quote

 

That depends, if you've actually got only 20 strike craft, then they will have minimal impact no matter if they are fighters or bombers.

If you've got 20 squadrons, 20 squadrons of bombers are enough to be a serious threat to enemy capital ships and such. Bombers, if I recall correctly, deal very high damage to heavily armored units ( up to double damage ), which makes them excellent against structures, capital ships and titans.

 

If you've got 20 carriers, then that's a pretty dangerous force by itself, capable of dealing lots of damage on pretty much anything in its path when equipped with bombers, but a few fighters can't hurt to keep air superiority, if you don't have any flak around.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Pat_22_, reply 7

Quoting vulpixel, reply 5Wow, thanks for all the quick and helpful explanations.

 

From what you say, strikecraft become very strong at high numbers (I can imagine this, as they could take out a capital ship every pass with enough numbers I imagine). I guess I could choose to build that way. But if I ended up not focusing on strikecraft (say I only have 20 in a large fleet), would it be better then to just use fighters as an anti-bomber force? Or some mix?

 

That depends, if you've actually got only 20 strike craft, then they will have minimal impact no matter if they are fighters or bombers.

If you've got 20 squadrons, 20 squadrons of bombers are enough to be a serious threat to enemy capital ships and such. Bombers, if I recall correctly, deal very high damage to heavily armored units ( up to double damage ), which makes them excellent against structures, capital ships and titans.

 

If you've got 20 carriers, then that's a pretty dangerous force by itself, capable of dealing lots of damage on pretty much anything in its path when equipped with bombers, but a few fighters can't hurt to keep air superiority, if you don't have any flak around.
End of Pat_22_'s quote

 

Ah, sorry I was vague there. After getting owned by an AI fleet with ~50 squads, I never leave base without some flaks. I think it would be more cost effective to just have a few flacks and spec bomber. Do you know if AOE abilities like mass phase missile, volatile nano explosion AOE, and the titan's AOE will knock out strikecraft? I would assume that one flak per 5 squads seems about right?

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting vulpixel, reply 8



 

Ah, sorry I was vague there. After getting owned by an AI fleet with ~50 squads, I never leave base without some flaks. I think it would be more cost effective to just have a few flacks and spec bomber. Do you know if AOE abilities like mass phase missile, volatile nano explosion AOE, and the titan's AOE will knock out strikecraft? I would assume that one flak per 5 squads seems about right?
End of vulpixel's quote

 

AoEs do not take out strike craft unless it's a strike craft specific AoE, like the Kol Battleship's Flak Burst ability or the Halcyon Carrier's Telekinetic Push.

As for the flak, I think you may need a little more than that.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

also keep in mind shield mitigation is still effective when a ship's shields are at zero.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Uzberg, reply 10
also keep in mind shield mitigation is still effective when a ship's shields are at zero.
End of Uzberg's quote

 

Yes, and if I and anyone else forgot to mention, successful phase missiles ignore shield mitigation, which is an enormous bonus.