how to destroy massive enemy fleet

Okay.  I'm playing small planet map and I've managed to create a chokepoint.  I'm fighting the race that has the movable starbase (yeah, just like the one in the wallpaper that I'm typing the message on - the one with the big eyeball starbase). 

Anyway, I got to 2 monolith cannons (those things that kill population) and spamming the enemy planets that I can see with it.  At the choke point I have one starbase up and what I thought was a pretty decent fleet.  The enemy makes a push through (no starbase).  They come through with their titan and a crapload of what I think are capital ships (they look like giant oval things) and a crapload of bombers.  They shred my fully upgraded starbase in about 45 seconds and then utterly crush my fleet.  I've tried to press through and attack their remaining planets but their fleets are ridiculously huge. I go in one side.  I fight their titan, their moving starbase and about 10 capital ships.  A crapload of bombers.  My fleet is wiped out in about 1 minute.

 

What the heck do I do at this point?  What's the best way for you folks to help me?  Do you want a breakdown of all the ships I can see in the sector I need to destroy? Should I do a screen capture of what I'm going up against?

I tried one idea of massing my own carrier fleet with a crapload of bombers and I was destroyed. I tried building a buttload of flak ships and was destroyed. 

I thought I had a chance until I got to this bottleneck (which used to be a pirate base which I took over).  Anyway, whatever you folks need let me know.  BTW< static defenses seem to be way underpowered.  I just put up 15x fixed gauss / rocket turrets plus my starbase (fully upgraded) + my fleet and had my hat handed to me.

6,113 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top

Fighters kill bombers. Build fighters and flak (they are not as effect vs bombers but they do help) to stop the bombers. Corvettes will help as well.

BTW< static defenses seem to be way underpowered. I just put up 15x fixed gauss / rocket turrets
End of quote

Build hangars with fighters. They work better.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting Ryat, reply 1
Fighters kill bombers. Build fighters and flak (they are not as effect vs bombers but they do help) to stop the bombers. Corvettes will help as well.


BTW< static defenses seem to be way underpowered. I just put up 15x fixed gauss / rocket turrets

Build hangars with fighters. They work better.
End of Ryat's quote

 

And repair bays?

Reply #3 Top

In general fighters counter bombers.

 

 

That said your problem may be more of a macro problem then fleet composition.

 

From the sound of it you're playing TEC and your opponent is Vasari.  Here's the thing, the Vasari have a much stronger late game then the TEC in general- the TEC by contrast are alla bout having a strong economy, applying a strong early pressure game and late game fighting a war of attrition their superior economy can better afford and at some point crushing the opponent with force of numbers as they at some point should be fielding more ships with these tactics.

If the opponents are fielding larger fleets then you despite TEC's superior economy you may need to work on your economy and early expansion rates.

 Not to mention it isn't really playing to the TEC's strengths in general to dig in and play sim-city for 3 hours giving the vasari menace plenty of time to tech up and develope their slower-growing economy.  Of course this is less of an issue if you're playing PvE as the AI has a number of flaws and can be outgunned regardless of the race you choose. 

 

Also you noted that static defenses are underpowered- this is more by design then by oversight.  In long games offense just outscales defense- this is intentional as it prevents games from never ending.  At the stage of the game you're descrbing(super late game), most static defenses don't do much besides starbases- and frankly even starbases are mainly useful to support fleets rather then being abel to repel enemy fleets on their own.  As a result you may be over investing in static defenses with cash that should be going towards improving your fleet.  Starbases are very handy tor einforce key points, but trying to build one in every gravity well is a good way to cripple your fleet.



All that said, bomber-spam is notoriously hard to defend against- you need fighters to kill the bombers, cobalt light frigates to kill & disrupt the carriers, and ideally if the enemy has an extremely large fleet of carriers 1-2 capitalships with anti-SC abilities(for the TEC this is a Kol with lots of points in flak burst, but unfortunately this is a bit of a hail mary play and will require 2 Kols as Flak burst is the weakest anti-strikecraft ability). 

In general Bombers is large numbers eat capitalships alive, make sure Capitalships are in a position where they can easily jump out of the well if they get focused much while the fighters & Light frigates do their.



Starbases with Red Button can also be used to "clear the air", buying plenty of time for the light frigates to make the enemy carriers' lives unpleasent.

 



 

Reply #4 Top

Two words,  Missile Barrage.  I usually have two Marzas leveled up and with missile tech researched and I tear up massive fleets with this ability.  Missile Barrage is your best friend.  don't ever discount its power.

Reply #5 Top

I'm going to try all of your suggestions and see how things go.  I guess I need to read up more on the different capabilities of the ships TEC has. BTW, the only place where I have a starbase is where the old pirate base choke point is.  I'll switch all my carriers over to fighters and also the starbase.  I've pretty much have all the tech researched at this point.  I'll build two marzas.  What kind of light frigate should I build?  Is there more than one type?  One thing I haven't finished researching yet is the light carrier for TEC?  Should I build alot of those and load them with fighters also?

BTW, that moving starbase thing is scary as is the vasari titan.  I didn't put much of a dent in either of them in spite of focussing my firepower on them?  Should I be going after the enemy carriers first?  Do the vasari carriers look like giant footballs?

Money is pretty tight for me right now.  Should I do a static defense w/two starbases + all my point defenses (I'll switch everything over to fighter hangers from my gauss run with rocket launchers for my tactical slots at the chokepoint).   Thanks for all your help! 

Reply #6 Top

Quoting angrysquirrel1, reply 6
I'm going to try all of your suggestions and see how things go.  I guess I need to read up more on the different capabilities of the ships TEC has. BTW, the only place where I have a starbase is where the old pirate base choke point is.  I'll switch all my carriers over to fighters and also the starbase.  I've pretty much have all the tech researched at this point. I'll build two marzas. 

What kind of light frigate should I build?  Is there more than one type? 

End of angrysquirrel1's quote

Light Frigate is it's self a unique class of ships, a subtype of the category "frigates".  The game subdivides non-capitalships into frigates and cruisers but around the forums most players refer to both cruisers & frigates merely as "frigates" for simplicity since there is no real mechanical differences between frigates and cruisers.

That said, the types of frigates each faction has are:

The scout frigate, the light frigate(often abbreviated LF on forums), the long range frigate(often abbreviated LRM on forums), the Flak Frigate, the carrier Cruiser, the heavy Cruiser, 2 support cruisers, and the Heavy Construction Cruiser(which makes starbases.

The Light frigate for the TEC is the Cobalt frigate, for the Advent is the Disciple, and for the Vasari is the Skirmisher.

Light frigates excel primarily at killing carrier frigates, Flak frigates, and support frigates.  So the idea is while the fighters clear the air of enemy bombers the Light frigates kill the carriers before the bombers are simply rebuilt.  Note Light frigates also generally have tech upgrades that allow them to drain AM fromt heir targets- this is also very useful for this role as carriers cannot build new squads of bombers when their AM is depleted.

One thing I haven't finished researching yet is the light carrier for TEC?  Should I build alot of those and load them with fighters also?

End of quote

Definitely.  Carriers are probably by and large the best late game frigates by far.  The provide a phenominal amount of firepower per command and that firepower is very flexible(can shift between bombers and fighters to match the situation & strikecraft can attack at a far distance from your fleet).  

Carrier frigates are used less often early on in games as they are prohibitively expensive early, but in the super late game they are indepensible, especially being that they can do their damage from accross a gravity well where they needn't fear the fairly common AoE death zones titans have brought to the game.

 

Also  a question about your fleet composition: when you said you tried a carrier fleet loaded with bombers I'd assumed you meant light carriers, but in light of this reply I assume you actually were using capitalships.  How many capitalships are you generally building by contrast to the number of frigates in your fleet?  One mistake newer players often make is over investing in capitalships.  Honestly the majority of a strong fleet's firepower generally comes from frigates rather then capitalships.  Not to mention the more capitalships you build the slower they all level up.

In general you usually don't build more then 3 or at most 4 capitalships before you start filling out your fleet supply with frigates.  Additional capitalships beyond that don't generally come in unless you need them to counter something or reachl the stage of the game when the scale of battles is so large that leveling up new ones becomes faster.

BTW, that moving starbase thing is scary as is the vasari titan.  I didn't put much of a dent in either of them in spite of focussing my firepower on them?  Should I be going after the enemy carriers first?  Do the vasari carriers look like giant footballs?

End of quote

First off, the Vasari starbase is indeed terrifying.  in fact the vasari Rebel who have jump-capable starbases are currently considered extremely overpowered for that very reason.

The Giant Egg shaped capitalship is the Vasari colonization capitalship, not their carrier.  That said, the names of their carrier capitalship is the Skirantra Carrier and the name of their carrier frigate is called the Lasurak Transporter.  Best way to see what they look like is to either load up a game as vasari or alternatively while fighting them, find the ships with those names on the empire tree(the drop down menu on the left of the screen for each planet), click on their icon in the tree and see what the unit you targeted looks like.

Unfrotunately though it's nto always quite as simple as "target the carriers first".  Your light frigates should definitely try to kill the enemy carrier frigates as soon as possible(but mind you late game light frigates are rather fail, so having them lead the charge may be dangerous if the enemy has other types of frigates escorting the carriers).

The Skirantra is much harder to kill then a frigate(land it's worth noting like all capitalships light frigates aren't your best bet against it).  That said, it's unlikely that the enemy will get a critical mass of bombers that threatens your fleet with capitalships alone.  If you can take out the carrier frigates you may well eb able to field enough fighters to keep the bombers fielded bye enemy capitalships under control.


That said if you do Want to kill the Skirantra, using your own bombers, LRM frigates(Javelis missile frigates), or Heavy Cruisers(the kodiak for TEC) sre you best bet for killing capitalships quickly.  While not necessarily always your top priority, Skirantras are pretty juicy targets as they have a very powerful AoE healing ability which provides tremendous sustainability to the Vasari Fleet.



Money is pretty tight for me right now.  Should I do a static defense w/two starbases + all my point defenses (I'll switch everything over to fighter hangers from my gauss run with rocket launchers for my tactical slots at the chokepoint).   Thanks for all your help! 
End of quote

Well it's certainly ideal to have a starbase on key defensive locations.  And you'll certainly want 2 repair bays anywhere that might get attacked.  Hangers are more of something you build to field fighters to safeguard against enemies using bombers or anti-module frigates to level your defenses from outside your starbase's range.  Keep in mind that by the late game turrets are mostly useless(their upgrade utility techs can give them some usefulness in small numbers, but don't mass them).

 

 

All that said, my answer for the question of "how much should I invest in defenses" is chiefly this: in the late game as much as can be spared without hurting your fleet too much.  When it comes down to it, late game defenses are primarily meant to buy time for your fleet to arrive and to support said defensive fleet, not to win the battle on their own.  The key to winning most battles is having a fleet as strong as the opponents- supporting starbases and static defenses may just be the boost that turns an otherwise equal battle in your favor, but if your enemy's fleet is superior it's going to be an uphill battle.  The the very least if you have unused fleet supply you should priotize replacing lost ships over building static defenses unless those static defenses are essential to your immediate survival.  Anyway, I realize some of this may sound a bit abstract, but I'm not really so sure how to explain it in a  more effective manner.    

 

Well I may be starting to ramble a bit- I've never really grasped the trick to condensing my posts down to a minimal length hitting only on key points.   That said, glad to help and I hope some of this information is useful.

 

Reply #7 Top

well since u indicate ur using tec against vasari and u wanna wipe the vasari in 1 big shot?

1.build and spread ur mines strategically

2.push the red button 

(at this point only his titan, carrier, caps and orky survives)

3.counter his bomber fleet with fighter fleet although i would rather use multiple smartly placed Dunov's Magnetize to instantly crush their bomber or u could spam FB with multiple Kols

(now push ur light frigates to his carriers or simply put ur flak inside his carrier formation, and order ur 50-100 lrm to their caps)

4.use Cielo's Designated target on Titan and orky and use 30-50 orskov to orky

(orky died)

5.FF all ur forces and defenses to murder their titan 

TLDR?

just get at least 4 Marza and use Quad MM 

Reply #8 Top

TEC cannot beat Vasari mass bomber spam. Even KOL battleships cannot put out enough flak to make a dent in them once they reach critical mass.

There are 4 main reasons for this,

Number One: flak combat logic does not prioritize damaged targets, massed flak will not defeat massed bombers (also see reason 2) Fix: make flak prioritize damaged targets, maximizing bombers destroyed.

Number Two: Strike groups have HP regeneration in flight. This seems insignificant, but when you can spread the damage across 50+ strike groups, it quickly adds up to an unstoppable forever-repairing force. Fix: Strike groups should only repair when idling, or when docked.

Number Three: TEC have no starbase solution against strike groups. Flak burst (Kol) and hangar flak turrets are uselsss against excessively massed strike groups. Vasari have Weapon Jam and Advent have that grav-push bubble that swats bombers. TEC have the meagre flak burst. The flak burst from the kol is too limited in range to have a significant effect. FIX: Change flak burst so that it has a larger range. Alternative: change damage scheme so that flak burst has a % chance to outright destroy all strike craft hit, this will make it more powerful the larger number of strike craft are attacking, while keeping it balanced against smaller strike groups. Fix: change hangar flak turrets to slow strike craft.

Number Four: Phase missiles are overpowered late game due to ignoring shield mitigation, especially against advent, and especially against capital ships. (vasari weapons deal around +35% more damage per cost with all lategame upgrades compared to TEC, and their most powerful bonus is phase missiles, which bombers use). This is supposedly intentional, but it pretty much means you can't win lategame unless playing Vasari on the larger maps.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting zerohourrct, reply 9
but it pretty much means you can't win lategame unless playing Vasari on the larger maps.
End of zerohourrct's quote

 

LOL.