What does the Revelation need to truly terrify her enemies?

Reverie is fine, though I prefer the other races phase out/ion bolt.

Guidance is worthless to my mind, using AM so one other ship can use AM faster...

Clairvoyance is seems ok, particularly late game against AI when scouts can no longer make it through. However MP its near worthless as building another scout is the far better option, since Clairvoyance drains the AM store and adds no combat effect.

As the Advent's bombing capital, it doesn't even get the bombing ability until lvl 6, whereas the Marza has raze and the Volkuras siege platform immediately. If you get a capital for the purpose of speedy bombing, having to wait for lvl 6 sucks and isn't worth it IMO, although it is a great ability in itself.

All in all, its a capital I rarely get SP (and even then out of the five types [diplo], it'd be my last choice), and doubt I ever will in a competitive MP.

Its not the lack of bombardment one way or another almost all of her abilities help her with bombardment(maybe not reverie). The only way to make the Revelation a terror is to give some incentive to build her.

As others have pointed out, many Advent abilities don't warrant a cooldown decrease from Guidance.  So as not to overlap existing abilities,

what if it also/instead

a.) increased anti-matter regeneration and maybe

b.) shield regeneration rates?

I don't recall any other abilities doing either of those.

Alternatively, I know Advent culture does this but you could throw

c.) PM block into the mix for affected ships if Advent still need it.

a few ideas to play with.

Reverie: really good stun that can put a capital out for the first (and most important) part of a battle and negates things like Missile Barrage.  No need for a buff here.

Guidance: AoE cooldown reduction.  The thing is, while it can basically do this for your entire fleet, nothing in the Advent arsenal really is helped that much by it.  Needs a serious buff or better yet, a rework or overhaul.  AM recharge is useful, but just like CD reduction, the Advent don't need it.  They have recharge structures and Disciples which work wonderfully as AM batteries.

Clairvoyance: free scouting wherever you want if you stick it on a star.  That said, scouts aren't all that difficult to come by.  You already mentioned my buff to it, so no need.

Provoke Hysteria: best bombing ability in the game.  Absolutely no need for a buff.

How is guidance AoE cooldown?! I just looked at it it does one ship.... Is that a Rebellion thing?

And I just checked the entity files.  Maybe it is Rebellion only.  I'd have to check diplo.

One thing I'm not sure of - does guidance work on titans?  If it does, then there actually is a very good incentive to use it.

Yeah, it affects titans.  All it is going to do though is increase the rate at which Chastic Burst and Unity Mass shoot at things.  Neither needs it that much.

Not sure about that - seems like emptying Chastic Bursts faster into clustered HCs or Light Carriers (particularly if you're using repulsion to keep them together) means you have significantly better odds of wiping them away before they can escape - a mid-level Eradica can certainly bank enough AM to wipe away HCs and Light Carriers without needing its AM regen.

At minimum, an allied Kultorask would get a big boost, since it nearly always has surplus AM and reduced NanoLeech+Grav Pulse cooldowns would mean enemy subcaps spend over half their time incapacitated and taking damage.

I really do think Guidance is in need of a rework.  The question then becomes, what should the revelation's role in the advent fleet be?  Which is to say what should it be an advent counter for?

Honestly it already has a strong focus-fire vibe going with Reverie and consequently really shines against opponent with a large number of capitalships.  I think it would be a good idea to build on that existing strength to create a coherent role for the Revelation.  Another thing- which by the way is very related to siege, the intended speciality of the revelation- which the Advent have always had trouble with is busting hard targets, most notably starbases in a cost effective manner.  This could also become part of the revelation's role.

Honestly I think taking these points into consideration, the best choice for a Guidance revelation would besomething that improves focusfire(natural synergy with reverie and would further focus the revelation on improving your ability to focusfire single hard targets).

The specifics seem less important, but I think something in that vein would make the Revelation viable fast.

You can't focus fire on a ship under the influence of reverie...it cancels the debuff...

Reverie is arguably stronger than any of the other big cap ship disables - it's not as useful for preventing a foe from fleeing, but goddamn it's powerful in a late-game fight.  Removing a high-level cap ship from play is absurdly strong.

Since I talked about this in another thread recently...

Check again. I think its always been AoE. At least it was in Diplomacy too.

Just did a more extensive check. I was wrong, it wasn't a Rebellion thing, it was a Diplomacy thing. Vanilla sins has it target a single ship, starting at 20%. Diplo 1.34 has AoE starting at 25%. I've played Trinity for a long time, yet I always remembered that stat from when I played vanilla...

I was talking to Sel tonight..  One of the points he kept bringing up was just the idea that it can't really bomb until level 6 so there was an interesting proposal..  Scrap Guidance, bring (and nerf) Provoke Hysteria from an ultimate to a normal, move (and buff) Repulse from the Guardian to the Revelation and give the Guardian a new ability.  Unless we were to get the whole community behind such a change, I doubt it would even have a chance of occurring.

Let's say that it did though...

Let's star by moving PH.  Right now, it costs 150 AM and has a CD of 180/135 with the effect of dealing 1%/1.25% health and .75%/.8625% population per second for 40/50 seconds.  We'd have to change this to something like, say, 70 AM and a CD of 60/50.  Effect would be .75%/.85%/.95%/1.05% health and .5%/.6%/.7%/.8% population per second for 30/32/34/36 seconds.

Let's skip the Revelation's ult for a second and focus on the Guardian.  Let's make Repulse instead of being a movement tool, let's make it a channeled defensive ability that will be a different take on the same word, "Repulse."  Let's say that the ship projects a telekinetic shield around nearby owned units with a chance of deflecting incoming weapons fire.  Let's say that it increases the chance of all nearby non-SC ships chance to dodge by 7.5% with a startup AM cost of 50 and a sustain cost of 3 per second.  Less powerful than Repulse or Shield Projection, but it costs less AM to sustain and synergizes with Shield Restore and Shield Projection which are sure to be in use already.

As for the Revelation's ult...  That's where I think Repulse's current effect could fit nicely, or at least some supercharged variation of it.  Currently it drains 100 AM startup plus 4 AM/s sustained on with a 20 second cooldown.  All ships within a range of 5000 are thrown back.  Let's start with the basics of the idea..  We're having an ability which throws away enemy ships with massive amounts of force via a telekinetic field.  Well, if you got thrown backwards with a force that can chuck a titan from one side of a planet to the other, do you think you're going to enjoy the process?  I'm guessing no.  As such, let's throw some damage into this ability that we'll call "Expel."

-Expel-
Description: Using the immense power of the telekinetics aboard this ship, the Revelation is able to throw back enemy ships, crushing their hulls with the force.
Activation AM: 120/150
Sustain AM: 5 per seconds
Max Duration: 30/35 seconds
Cooldown: 85/75
Range: 6800/10000
Effect: 100/200 hull damage to corvettes, 200/400 hull damage to frigates, 500/700 hull damage to capitals, and 800/1200 hull damage to titans and repulses targets

The above may be OP, but mind you that is the first time I've bothered actually trying to think it through so feel free to adjust numbers.  If nothing else, if I ever make a mod where I differentiate loyalist and rebel capitals, the AR are getting this version of the Revelation.

Funny how repulse seems to go through cycles of being ignored and hated. Is it better than some of the Revelations abilities? Sure. But I'm seriously puzzled as to why Seleuceia thinks its such a big deal it needs to go on a capitalships (not that its necessarily a bad idea, but I don't think the Advent need a lot of nerfs right now, save perhaps wail and chastic burst) and Mayal seems to want to nerf it into oblivion.

Also if we were going to scrap an ability on the Revelation, I think it should be Clairvoyance, not guidance. Sure the Advent have plenty of antimatter support, but they can guzzle the stuff faster than a Hummer will drain gasoline hauling a howitzer. If it provide some boost to antimatter as well as cooldown I think it could be very much worth it in large battle. Clairvoyance on the other hand seems much harder to make a plausible secondary effect that doesn't feel forced on (like a planet damage or mine reveal buff), and I don't think its lose any function this way.

Well one Revelation with Guidance and two Discord battleships will probably do more psychic scream damage than an Eradica can do with Chastic Burst?

Hell, with Guidance at max level, I think you can get two Psychic Screams off in a single Fracture. Hey look, you're doing more damage for less antimatter spent!

With things like the Eradica and Discord Battleships roaming around, emptying your antimatter faster through more frequent ability use means the enemy fleet will be shredded that much faster.

First of all:

Front laser banks. The Revelations' upper laser turrets don't even shoot. I have been complaining about this since Entrenchment and will continue to do so whenever a decent opportunity appears.

About the abilities:

Reverie is a good ability (especially during the early stages of the game, less so in later stages of the game), yet it is great for neutralizing or eliminating a single target. Clairvoyance is a useful utility, yet building a capital ship purely because of an ability like this would be ridiculous.

The real problem lies - like others already mentioned - with the Guidance ability. It is simply put worthless. While I did see some other interesting ideas out there, I propose the following: Guidance temporarily increases the number of weapon banks per targeted friendly ship by one. Of course the radius of the ability should be nerfed, but this would make the Revelation very dangerous when supported with a decent fleet. It would even fit suit name of the ability!

I find the current ability effect to be cheesy and very TEC like. The Revelation needs something truly unique, like for example the change I propose. There are many other good ideas out there though. I just hope the dev's change something about it...

It's complicated, but here is my thinking so far...first, let's get the no-brainers out of the way:

1. Revelation must have a normal ability that helps damage planets...
2. Reverie is fine and does not need to be changed (at least not conceptually)

So, in order to meet goal 1 while keeping reverie, we have 3 possibilities:

1. Buff Clairvoyance to help bomb planets...this could be done by:
• Planet under affect of clairvoyance is more susceptible to bombing damage
• Mines at planet are revealed...multiple ways to implement this (random chance, target cap, etc.) but in concept minefields become less of an issue...
• Increased bombing damage is a must if clairvoyance becomes the "bombing" ability"...revealing mines is a possibility...
2. Change Guidance to help bomb planets...this could be done by making it an AoE (preferably passive, but possibly active) that reduces the bombing weapon cooldown of nearby ships or all ships at gravity well...
3. Make Provoke Hysteria a normal ability and nerf it...

Option 3 is my least favorite option because provoke hysteria by its nature is an ultimate ability....think of it's effect (more dramatic than drain planet, comparable to wail, strip, awe and inspire), the fact that it scales so extremely well (no other bombing ability does, and with good reason)...it is meant to be an ultimate...

That leaves buffing clairvoyance or changing guidance....let us take some other things into consideration:

1. Clairvoyance needs a buff independent of what else is done to the revelation...the concept of this ability is inflexible i.e. it can't be put on a cruiser or "changed" completely and basically is stuck targetting planets...
2. Guidance needs to be buffed or reworked independent of what else is done to the revelation...unlike clairvoyance, guidance is flexible i.e.  you could provide "guidance" to do anything (use abilities, fire weapons, bomb planets, regen, etc)...this ability also could be moved to a cruiser...

If you accept that a normal ability must make the revelation better at bombing, provoke hysteria needs to stay as an ultimate, and guidance is much more flexible for "reworking" than clairvoyance (which basically has to be a cap ability that targets planets), I think it becomes apparent that clairvoyance is the better pick for reworking as a planet bombing ability...

For now, let's say that clairvoyance makes the target planet more susceptible to bombing and maybe makes revealing mines somehow easier...let us not concern ourselves with the numbers, but just know that this makes any planet in the system easier to bomb even if the revelation is not there (something that siege platforms and raze planet cannot do)...I am confident that numbers could be selected to make this ability very useful for bombing...

That still leaves guidance (which needs to be reworked somehow)...what to do what to do....well, you could swap guidance and repulsion...early game that could be brutal, cause if it wasn't channeling then you could bomb a planet and keep pesky units off of it...personally though, I'd rather keep guidance on the revelation...

I see three broad possibilities with guidance:

1. Buff ability usage - this could be an AoE (either passive or active, depending on specific buff and stats) that reduces AM cost, reduces ability cooldown, regenerates AM...
2. Buff weapon usage - again, AoE (either passive or active, depending again on the specific stats)...we are talking reduced weapon cooldown, increased weapon cooldown, increased accuracy, increased range, etc.
3. Buff regen - also AoE, increased passive regen rates for hull and/or shields...most important probably would be a buff to AM regen rate...

A final possiblity is to make this a single target ability similar to elite crews...you buff a single target (hell, maybe even let it affect titans), allowing it to spam abilities better or whatever....

Personally?  I am a fan of the single target idea, with massive stat improvements to that target...furthermore, I'd even consider allowing it to target itself...basically, we are talking about a normal ability similar to elite crews in concept, an ability that may even affect SBs and/or titans, and may even affect self...I was against this in diplomacy but titans change things, and I think this ability could be really useful throughout all stages of the game...

So...to summarize:

• Reverie and provoke hysteria left alone
• Clairvoyance makes target planet more susceptible to bombing and may also help reveal mines
• Guidance is like a "normal ability" version of elite crews...maybe not same exact buffs, but basically you are helping a single target become better/stronger/beastlier

I still may move repulsion to a cap ship, but it almost certainly won't be the revelation...but that's a whole different story....

Perhaps I was not explicit- by saying that Reverie enhances focusfire I didn't mean you cast it on your focus target.  Reverie allows you to essentially remove a ship or two from combat, making them easier to ignore while you focusfire a different target.  This si why there would be a natural synergy and coherent unified direction if guidance were replaced with a traditional focusfire mechanic-something like Designate Target or shield disruption in example.

If this were the case the Revelation could improve it's fleet's ability to focusfire on a key target while simultaneously removing from play a few other ships which would otherwise be difficult to ignore.

The point is reverie very much supports focusfire- it just does so in a manner other then being cast on the focused target.  

Well in anycase we digress from the main discussion- just thought I'd clear up your misunderstanding of my post.

Not possible with the current modifiers.  That said, you could turn it into an "Open Fire!" sort of buff.  Reduce weapon cooldowns by 100% (doubling damage output) and every time a target is hit by weapons fire, it receives a buff to not be optimally targeted, displacing damage to other sources.  Would actually probably work quite well with Malice.

Being the Bombing-capital, I'd have an idea for Guidance:

Toggled ability.

While active, AM is slowly drained, in exchange the current gravity well's planet slowly loses max-health (without actually losing health, it instead shifts the 0 upwards for purposes of when you're "done" bombing).

In other words if you engage it just as you enter battle - tactically tricky since you also need some AM for Reverie - then by the time you start bombing it could be you have to bomb substantially less.

Debuff fades (and ability toggles off) when you jump away.

As for Clairvoyance, I'd leave it as a scout-only ability, but I'd make it "infect" capships/titans in the targetted well, causing a lingering Clairvoyance effect on them when they leave a well targetted by it - for 15s after the jump, they give you vision, too.

It's a bombing cap with support abilities, but they aren't even good support they are indirect support.  Guidance just needs to go, replace it some sort of direct offencive ability like all the other bombing caps get.  CV is meh.  It's not awful, but I'm not going to buy a cap just for it.  It needs a secondary effect, maybe like giving a small buff/debuff when used in the grav well the Revelation is currently in.

It would make it a lot more useful then the current effect of the ability to say the least.

Make the Revelation a mothership.  TAU Milano; drone deployer.