Damage table for Anti-Medium weapons (AKA as LRFs):
Medium Armor 1.3333333
Very Light Armor 1.000000
That's right, LRFs are almost as good against corvettes as they are against light frigates...of course, this is easily overlooked since LRFs suck at turning and shooting the damn things....unless you are an ILLUMINATOR, in which case the sillly fighter behavior of corvettes doesn't matter...so what ends up happening is that massed illuminators practically become immune to corvettes....
Did some tests to confirm this:
40 illuminators vs. 80 TEC corvettes
Corvettes win, but with ridiculous losses (only about 25-30 survive)
50 illuminators vs. 100 TEC corvettes
Corvettes win with same ridiculous losses (only about 40 survive)
To put this into perspective:
75 LRMs vs. 100 TEC Corvettes
Corvettes win with hardly any losses (about 70 survive)
Once you start getting into the 30s or so with illuminators, corvettes essentially become a non issue...corvettes barely beat out the illuminators without defense vessels being involved, add those and nothing short of HCs or a powerful AoE can stop an Advent fleet...this is why AL and their coronata is so powerful, because you combine the best fleet with the best support ability (suppression) and 2nd best FFing ability (Unity Mass)...
This is an issue specifically with the illuminator, but how does one make the illuminator weaker against corvettes without removing the side weapons? I propose that the damage table be changed such that Anti-medium weapons no longer fair so well very light armor...maybe a value or .80 or .75 would be more appropriate...sure the illuminator will always have an advantage over the other LRFs when going against corvettes, but the LRM and kanrak make up for it with better focus fire...the current situation though is just ridiculous, there is no counter whatsoever against illuminators other than HCs, and that simply is not acceptable...
First of, let me say that when you still use corvettes by the time the enemy is having fifty! illuminators, you deserve to get your ass handed.
Lets see what all those ships cost:
- Require 3 Temples of Hostility:
- Credit Cost: 15200
- Metal Cost: 2400
- Crystal Cost:2200
- Supply Cost: 240
- Minimum Build time: 1040 seconds, assuming you have always enough resources to keep the factory running
80 TEC corvettes
- Require 1 Civic Research Center
- Credit Cost: 15200
- Metal Cost: 1600
- Crystal Cost: 800
- Supply Cost: 240
- Minimum Build time: 1120 seconds
2 more labs
Credit Cost: 0
Metall Cost: 800
Crystal Cost: 1400
Minimum Build time: 80
You need 80 seconds more build time but you save yourself 800 metal and 1400 crystal. Sounds like a good deal for me.
Then you said that at least 25 corvettes survived that battle...
So your actually only lost:
- Credits: 10450
- Metal: 1100
- Crystal: 550
- Minimum Rebuild time: 770 seconds
That means that the Advent in total lost
- 4750 credits
- 1300 metal
- 1650 crystal
more than you.
Now tell me, why should the Advent again build illuminators ? Doesnt make sense, he takes heavier losses than you and btw, you are TEC. By the time he has 40 illuminators you should have a better economy than him. That means that even if you two would have had lost the same amount of resources, you would still win!
Now for the second example: The calculation is the same, although I agree it is a bit more favorable for the Advent here. But that is only naturally so, as with more illuminators even the side beams gets more and more deadly.
The very design of the ship and the nature of its weapon make ot do awesome against many not durable targets, there is nothing you can do about that without nerfing it into oblivion.
There are 3 LRM frigates in the game, but they all different and so they have different roles.Thats what factional diversity is all about.
TEC - Long range artillery--> high damage against single targets
Vasari - Assassination of high priority targets, thanks to phase"what shields?" missiles. Higher rate of fire so better than Javelis against many durable targets
Advent - long range combat support at the cost of concentrated firepower. Illums are great against a fleet of LRMs, but terrible against a fleet of Kodiaks.... they just need to long to do any reasonable damage.
Of course the Javelis does suck against Corvettes... the thing fires what...? a missile barrage all 5 seconds? Of course that is terrible against a swarm of fast moving ships.
But, that is not the point of the Javelis. The point of the Javelis is "cheap firepower" at extreme range. A role is fills excellent, far better than the illuminator. And it much cheaper, meaning you can have many more of them.
For those 50 illuminators you could have had 70 Javelis LRMs.
In some situations, 50 illuminators are going to be more useful, in other situation 70 Javelis are going to be much better.
Try to face an enemy titan with 50 illuminators.... then face it again with 70 Javelis... note who does more damage.
The Javelis has worthless shields and armor, but it should never enter the fray. Illuminators on the other hand need to be in the heart of battle, otherwise you cant use all 3 beams, severly reducing the total effective firepower.
BTW, the Javelis is more cost effective than the illuminator both in durabilty for money and damage for money. And thats under the assumption that the Illuminator will always use its 3 beams.
||/ 3 beams
|Credits for 1 damage
|Metal for 1 damage
|Crystal for 1 damage
|Supply for 1 damage
|Credits for 100 hull points
|Metal for 100 hull points
|Crystal for 100 hull points
|Supply for 100 hull points
|Credits for 100 shields points
|Metal for 100 shield points
|Crystal for 100 shield points
|supply for 100 shield points
|Credits for 100 durability
|Metal for 100 durabiliy
|Crystal for 100 durablity
|Supply for 100 durabilty
By the time your enemy fields 30 illuminators, Titans are not far away. And that is something we have to consider as well.
This is not Diplomacy anymore. In the average rebellion game an Advent is going to face hostile Titans, capital ship heavy Vasari Loyalists fleets, phase jumping Vasari starbases (and I speak about a balanced version of the Orkulus Rex, mind you) and a possible digged in TEC Loyalist with a starbase and Militia upgrades.
To deal with all those things, you need a lot of firepower. Focus firepower. Focus firepower that illuminators can not deliver, unless you ridiculously outnumber your enemy, in which case you have already won. So that leaves Destras... but you cant have those in numbers until quite late in the game. So that leads to and you all know the answer... bomber spam.
Advent need a working other strategy for med - late game other than bomber spam. Advent strikecraft being overall the most powerful, the other option needs to be somewhat appealing. Bomber spam has certain difficulties against many light ships... and thats were the illuminators come in. Think about it, for every 3 illuminators you have to worry about one Aeria and 3 bomber wings less.
If playing Advent = bomber spam that is not good, neither for the race nor for the fun of the game.
If we are going to change the illuminator we have to be very carefull. The units is far less usefull overall in Rebellion than in Diplomacy with Titans and similar new stuff flying arround.
Corvettes are an early game harassment unit. They are best countered by having more corvettes than the enemy. (Flak is a bit more cost efficient, but flak cannot lead a counter offense, corvettes can). When titans enter the field, mass corvettes are quickly outmatched against one of the many AoE abilities that the average fleet is fielding by then. A few corvettes for their special crippling damage perhaps, but thats about it.
And please get down from your hate for supression aura. . Yes, it is a powerful ability, but so are many others in this game. And a Coronata with it is far from invulnerable, even with 100 illuminators at its side.
On a final note, lets not forget that the illuminator has to have a place in the Advent Rebels gameplay, too.