How about them AIs?

Why the AIs are more annoying then real players

Hello everyone, let me start by saying I LOVE Rebellion, then let me state this isnt me being a butt hurt noob or bagging on the game. My problem is with the AI balance from Trinity to Rebellion, the AI isnt really "smart" but it is annoying to fight. I play as TEC Rebels and have crushed all but the top AI level, but I hate them with a passion based on the fact that they spam the super weapons. Now for the Advent this isnt an issue, their weapon is wimpy when compared to the biggest troll AI on the face of the earth at this time, the TEC Loyalists. I like playing on the easy difficulty just to dp the economics and have fun puttsing with the game, but when I played the TEC Loyalist AI all it did was sit down and use what seemed to be 100+ Novalith cannons. This got me to the brink of defeat! I wasnt done though and returned with mass attacks with orgrov torpedo crusiers. I would like to have an update so that I can set the AI to be unable or resticted in their use of said weapons.

 

9,868 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

Well, they already reduced the number of super weapons you could build to 4 in Rebellion to try and deal with the problem. A lot of players thought this was a bit extreme though, especially as the TEC Loyalists needed them so much,  and that as a player its fun to use swarms of them. Thus in the next patch, the number of superweapons you can build will be based on the size of your Empire. Small Empires will only be able to field 1 or 2, large ones could build more than 4.

FYI to deal with Novalith attacks, build starbases on your important planets, and build the axillary government or equivalent upgrade, and you will not lose your planets to bombardment, including Novaliths. TEC shield generators can also reduce the damage and deaths the Novalith inflicts, by up to 70% full upgraded.

Also FYI the AI did use superweapons in the final patches of Diplomacy, without any limit to how many they could build. Also the harder AIs get a economic advantage, and Cruel+ AI get faster research, plus perhaps other noncombat benefits, allowing them to get superweapons faster and in larger quantities. Even if you can beat those AIs I'd say its smarter to stick with unfair AI, the harder ones are indeed not as fun to play against because its not even close to a fair fight. Try doing more challenging scenarios or give yourself restrictions (I.e. no building starbases, which the AIs suck against) to make the weaker AIs more fun. Or there's also online play if you want a real, smarter challenge.

Reply #2 Top

Are they really going to calculate the limit of Superweapons based on the number of planets a player owns? That would be incredibly stupid, because it´s mostly the small empires that need them most. (TL)

I think it would be better if there was no limit, but instead the cost of superweapons would double (or x1.5 idk) for each superweapon you already own. That would ensure that nobody really spams them like hell (Imagine the cost of 5!) but it would give you at least the chance of building more than four.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting mixerria, reply 2
Are they really going to calculate the limit of Superweapons based on the number of planets a player owns? That would be incredibly stupid, because it´s mostly the small empires that need them most. (TL)
End of mixerria's quote

Turtling early is a bad idea in Sins for everyone, even the TL. They need a large economy if you are going to support lots of starbases and Novaliths, and that means planets and trade chains. What the TL should do is get the same sized Empire as everyone else early, then turtle down and go for Novaliths to try and win the war of attrition.

That said, Novalith Deregulation will allow the TL to build twice as many Novaliths as an equivalent sized Empire, so they do not need a larger Empire to out superweapon the competition.

Reply #4 Top

The AI are restricted on how many supers they can build, just like everyone else.

 

That said Auxiliary governments on starbases can prevent novaliths from flipping planets.  Planetary shield generators can also at least slow down novalith bombardment.  Slap these up on key worlds and go on the offensive, blowing up novaliths as you spot them.

The best counter is of course to end the game before the enemy has a dozen superweapons- though to be fair this can be more difficult against high difficulty AIs who cheat for resources like nobody's business.

Reply #5 Top

I didn't know there was already a limit, I was just getting really mad that I waswaist deep in hoshikos and percheons that I couldn't pull ouy long enough to build star bases, and I kinda forgot about the sheilds. Another thing I've noticed is the seemingly unending use of one type of ship per faction/race AI. The loyalist I fought yesterday used light carriers, repairs and the Marza, which in my opinion is the second worst TEC Cap shit, only beating the new ship whos class I have yet to devote to memory.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Valpheus, reply 7
Hope this mod would help:

[MOD] Trivial Options Mods - No Titans/No Starbase/No SuperWeapons
End of Valpheus's quote

 

Hey it's like we're playing vanilla all over again!

 

[EDIT: man, it's late.  took me a minute after posting to remember superweapons were in vanilla]

Reply #8 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
That said, Novalith Deregulation will allow the TL to build twice as many Novaliths as an equivalent sized Empire, so they do not need a larger Empire to out superweapon the competition.
End of GoaFan77's quote

If they´d change it that way, it´d be acceptable for the TL.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting mixerria, reply 9

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3That said, Novalith Deregulation will allow the TL to build twice as many Novaliths as an equivalent sized Empire, so they do not need a larger Empire to out superweapon the competition.

If they´d change it that way, it´d be acceptable for the TL.
End of mixerria's quote

 

You speak as if this was mere theory. Go read the patch notes, that's what's in stock for the TL come tuesday.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Ranger452, reply 6
I didn't know there was already a limit, I was just getting really mad that I waswaist deep in hoshikos and percheons that I couldn't pull ouy long enough to build star bases, and I kinda forgot about the sheilds. Another thing I've noticed is the seemingly unending use of one type of ship per faction/race AI. The loyalist I fought yesterday used light carriers, repairs and the Marza, which in my opinion is the second worst TEC Cap shit, only beating the new ship whos class I have yet to devote to memory.
End of Ranger452's quote

I think it depends on the AI type, the aggressive ones probably don't research all the ship types as quickly. Given you had a lot of carriers too he might have been going for fighters to counter your bombers and antistructure cruisers. The Marza is actually a very good cap, especially Missile Barrage, as it can be a game winning ability in the right situation. The new ship, the Corsev, started out being hated but now I must admit it's pretty good, especially early on. It has a passive healing ability making it tough to kill and demoteams is considered OP at the moment, but will get a bit of a nerf in the next patch tomorrow. The Kol is really the only TEC capitalship that isn't really useful at all, with the Dunov being mainly good late game and the Sova early.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Pat_22_, reply 10
You speak as if this was mere theory. Go read the patch notes, that's what's in stock for the TL come tuesday.
End of Pat_22_'s quote

link?

Reply #12 Top

A lot of the stickies are outdated, but believe it or not sometimes something useful is one them. ;P

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/429746

Reply #13 Top

I like the Kol though, they seem to be able to handle swarms of heavy crusiers with some success, this being said I produce two of each then three Kol and three Sova. As for the Marza maybe I never noticed its use, but I always keep at least one in fleet. The Dunov has started to grow on me, I never found it combat worthy when placed next to my favorit cap the Akkan who broad sides can handle groupings of frigates, but the Dunov's sheild recharge makes it useful in the large fleet engagements that I always seem to jump into.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Ranger452, reply 14
I like the Kol though, they seem to be able to handle swarms of heavy crusiers with some success, this being said I produce two of each then three Kol and three Sova. As for the Marza maybe I never noticed its use, but I always keep at least one in fleet. The Dunov has started to grow on me, I never found it combat worthy when placed next to my favorit cap the Akkan who broad sides can handle groupings of frigates, but the Dunov's sheild recharge makes it useful in the large fleet engagements that I always seem to jump into.
End of Ranger452's quote

If by swarms you mean three, maybe at high levels. Really, all capitalships are pretty bad per cost and fleet supply in raw stats versus frigates. Only once they are high levels are they decent. Capitalships above all are used for their abilities, and here the Kol is rather lackluster against everything but strikecraft. The Marza has great planet bombing and unlimited AoE abilities plus high forward damage than the Kol. The Dunov is perhaps the weakest stat wise but its vital to use against titans, healing yours and draining the antimatter of the enemy's. The Akkan is good all around but doesn't have much damage capacity, its for expanding your economy early and getting yourself out of bad situations with ion bolt and armistice.

If you want high amounts of raw damage potential, frigates and a titan is what you should be building. Building too many capitalships is a common mistake by newer players, who tend to have a lot of lower level caps which leads to them getting totally owned by focus fire from large frigate groups.

Reply #16 Top

When you play against AI, it's like your opponent is retarded.  At best, without eco cheat buffs the AI will be merely annoying.  It just isn't capable of determining how to deal with starbases and titans nor how to use them properly.  That's why you should try it online against human players--"the real Sins game".