There needs to be a Titan killer....

You there, posting pony pictures from the anonymity of your computer chair, you, yes, you! could be the next troll king complete with a thread of your own started by you!

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Quoting SpardaSon21,

reply 26

You there, posting pony pictures from the anonymity of your computer chair, you, yes, you! could be the next troll king complete with a thread of your own started by you!

I worry that I'm close enough to getting banned already. And I'm too lazy to photoshop a picture. If someone sent me one, I might do it.

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Seleuceia

Join Date 01/2008

+240

Lol you aren't even remotely close to getting banned...you have nothing to worry about....

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Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 28

Lol you aren't even remotely close to getting banned...you have nothing to worry about....

He's as safe as Mecha.....

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Seleuceia

Join Date 01/2008

+240

Mecha posted "Frogboy is control freak with a tiny penis" and didn't get banned...Mecha isn't around any more because he left out of boredom, not because he got permaband...believe me, you really have to push it to get banned from these forums...

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Frigates can overpower titans for the first level or two.

Honestly I'd just like to see something along the lines of:

-Increase exp required for each titan levelup by maybe 40-50%

-Increase exp granted for killing titans by 40-50%(basically just means that frigates & cap ships become less efficient at leveling up titan. Also increases the risk of rushing a titan since if the enemy kills it, more exp for their capitalships)

-Reduce the potency of the first 2 ranks of most titan AOE abilities a bit

These changes would drastically increase that period where titans are still vulnerable to frigates and provide less firepower then a convetionally developed fleet.

Late game titan would still become awesome forces of destruction, but rushing them would be more risky and they would take much longer to mature. Of course the numbers aren't perfect, but you get the idea.

I'm also a fan of removing corvettes from all titan AoE filters.

And as I discussed here: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/429179 I think it would also do wonders for late game frigate variation to reduce the damage table entry for ability damage to light frigates(maybe doen to 50-65%), since light frigates counter carriers.

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I prefer level 6 halcyons at the edge of gravity wells spamming over hundred Squads of bombers with their ultimate ability while supportef by a rapture with concentration aura.

Caps do counter titans guys and can escape gravity wells with a click of a button if the ragnorv is chasing them.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 8

Damage table wise Corvettes do a good number on titans... too bad their AoE attacks will rip the to shreads.

Is there a new table out by chance that covers units up through rebellion? Or did you get that info elsewhere. Not doubting you, I'd just like to find a copy if there is one.

Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 8

I'm thinking very much the same thing. Now that abilities that target frigates don't automatically target corvettes... removing corvettes from all titan AoE attacks could go a long way to making titans more manageable. As Corvettes also apply debuffs, which are more effective on single, strong targets, it would both allow you to build something that won't just get decimated by Chastic burst etc. while the debuffs make it easier for your own titan and cap ships to take it down.

How about giving the corvettes a dodge chance? Like 25% of attacks miss them or something? That would help them survive AoEs and could be explained bny the fact that they are supposed to be scaled up fighters, just big enough to fight without a squad, not strong on their own, but meant to harrass and run away.

-Twi

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I also believe removing corvettes from titan AoE attacks would help a lot in balancing the game. Combining a bomber fleet and corvette spam would be a great way to counter titans later during the game and would also make sure corvettes remain useful later on and not just at the start of a game.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Twilight_Storm,

reply 34

Is there a new table out by chance that covers units up through rebellion? Or did you get that info elsewhere. Not doubting you, I'd just like to find a copy if there is one.

The table is always in the game files. Gameplay.constants file. Even if you don't like mods, it comes in handy for balance discussions.

However, since the Corvettes just got a new damage type, their table was listed in the changelog.

Added new Corvette weapon damage type to gameplay.constants.

DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:CapitalShip 0.65
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:VeryLight 0.50
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Light 1.5
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Medium 0.6
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Heavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:VeryHeavy 0.55
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Module 0.35
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Pirate 0.50
DamagePercentBonus:CORVETTE:Titan 0.7

Quoting Twilight_Storm,

reply 34

How about giving the corvettes a dodge chance? Like 25% of attacks miss them or something? That would help them survive AoEs and could be explained bny the fact that they are supposed to be scaled up fighters, just big enough to fight without a squad, not strong on their own, but meant to harrass and run away.

In Sins, "Dodging" just translates into another damage reduction. 25% chance to dodge would thus reduce damage taken by 25%. And Corvettes are so fragile compared to the damage titan AoE's could do they would need something like 90% chance to dodge. May as well just make them immune.

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Oh, come on now.... Luke Skywalker took down the Death Star with a glorified fighter!!!

Who needs a titan killer when you have "The Force"??? hehehehehe

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Because not all of us are walking the path of the force Jim, obviously. Don't ask silly questions.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 36

In Sins, "Dodging" just translates into another damage reduction. 25% chance to dodge would thus reduce damage taken by 25%. And Corvettes are so fragile compared to the damage titan AoE's could do they would need something like 90% chance to dodge. May as well just make them immune.

I don't know if it has to be as simple as that, though. What if the AoE-resistant corvette's abilities make the Titan vulnerable to larger, AoE-susceptible ships? So as long as 1 corvette survives, it can increase the threat posed by a small fleet. It's an interesting idea, at least: To have some low-DPS class of unit be resistant to AoE damage, so that they can debuff the titans and make them vulnerable to higher-DPS cruisers. I think this would add a level of complexity to the late-game strategy.

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ARESIV

Join Date 05/2011

+58

Quoting Sinperium,

reply 9

I actually have always wanted a dedicated titan hunter in game. Doesn't have to be a powerful monstrosity just something as effective as the Ogrov vs. the Orkulus and in the capital ship slot and cost range.

Make it very vulnerable to other things and make it only damage titans.

It's the same concept as real life hunter-killer submarines and anti-ballistic missiles not to mention the hypersonic supercarrier killers China has and Russia is developing.

A ship in a real-life fleet as effective as a titan would beg for an effective and cheaper deterrent--that's how it works.

Ogrovs? Muhahahahahahaha.... good one

On a more serious note, even if something like that is implemented... you would have to reduce the effectivness of bomber spam first. Ogrovs are not too bad against - stationary - starbases... just not good enough to warrant to replace bombers with them.

Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 10

There are two counters to titans in this game:

Ragnarov
Jumping Orkies

Pick one...

Lots of bombers....

or if you are Vasari VS Advent half that number phase missile bombers...

Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 19

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 14While you refuse to believe, I will happily blast your titan while stealing and frigates you might be stupid enough to bring with you.

Are you really going to try and tell me Unity Mass does more damage than snipe? I didn't know you trolled, Goa....

Actually.... UM did more damage than Snipe even before 1.4. It is just so that the Ragnarov dishes out a ton of non ability damage.... and so it feels a lot stronger. With 1.4 Unity Mass is considerable more powerful.

Proof: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/428673 - Reply 16

That was 1.3.... now with the hugely buffed Unity Mass I am pretty certain Coronata will eat Ragnarov for breakfast.

BTW, read your own posts in this topic, lol.

I am pretty certain that against hard singular targets the Coronata is now better than the Eradica... at least below Level 6. Above that the all new and awesome Unyielding will evens up the field.

See: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/430282, my post about the Eradica/Coronate fight.... blue text

Quoting RiddleKing,

reply 33

I prefer level 6 halcyons at the edge of gravity wells spamming over hundred Squads of bombers with their ultimate ability while supportef by a rapture with concentration aura.

Caps do counter titans guys and can escape gravity wells with a click of a button if the ragnorv is chasing them.

Yes... however you need to retreat the ship that is fired on immediatly... very few capital ships that even on high level survive this level of firepower fore more than 30 seconds at most.

Not to mention you usually wont have many Level 6 Halycons..... and even if.... a few rounds against an Vasari and they are gone and then the replacment is just level 4.

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Seleuceia

Join Date 01/2008

+240

Quoting ARESIV,

reply 40

Actually.... UM did more damage than Snipe even before 1.4. It is just so that the Ragnarov dishes out a ton of non ability damage.... and so it feels a lot stronger. With 1.4 Unity Mass is considerable more powerful.

Your troll radar needs some serious help...

If you want to seriously discuss UM vs. snipe, however, here goes...first, you must consider DPS, not damage per use, and therefore the ability cooldown becomes a major factor....IIRC, lvl 4 snipe comes out to like 325 DPS (it has an 8 second cooldown) while UM comes out to like 350 DPS with 50+ nearby ships...

Some other factors to throw in:

Overcharge doubles the damage output of snipe....of course, it isn't used for every snipe shot, so the actual DPS over a long period of time is not 650, but it is still higher than the 350 that UM does...
UM requires nearby ships to reach it's full potential...without nearby ships, UM does not come even close to the damage potential of snipe...
Snipe is using 70 AM every 8 seconds...UM is using 85 AM every 25 seconds....so, UM is far more AM efficient

My conclusion is that when support ships are mostly gone, snipe is far better unless the ragnarov starts with no AM...when you have massive amounts of support ships, it depends on fleet composition...scattershot + explosive shot may be able to wipe the support ships pretty quickly, and then you are down to mostly a 1v1, Ragnarov vs. Coronata....however, proper support with caps and guardians may make that impossible, and then the Coronata is massively favored....

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Eilarais,

reply 39

I don't know if it has to be as simple as that, though. What if the AoE-resistant corvette's abilities make the Titan vulnerable to larger, AoE-susceptible ships? So as long as 1 corvette survives, it can increase the threat posed by a small fleet. It's an interesting idea, at least: To have some low-DPS class of unit be resistant to AoE damage, so that they can debuff the titans and make them vulnerable to higher-DPS cruisers. I think this would add a level of complexity to the late-game strategy.

That's exactly what we're saying, its just that Corvettes will need immunity, not resistance to titans AoE's to do that job. Tier 4 chastic burst will 1 hit kill corvettes, even with a larger resistance, it won't take very long for a titan to kill all the corvettes. And Corvettes will still be vulnerable to the titan's normal weapons.

Right now, the main complaint about titans is that they make frigates obsolete. The idea is there needs to be some time of unit you can mass produce that would be immune to this. Your titan and capitalships would probably still be the backbone of the force you use to kill a titan, its just you could funnel the rest of your fleet supply into Corvettes to help them out with extra damage and the debuffs.

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Quoting GoaFan77,

reply 42

Right now, the main complaint about titans is that they make frigates obsolete. The idea is there needs to be some time of unit you can mass produce that would be immune to this. Your titan and capitalships would probably still be the backbone of the force you use to kill a titan, its just you could funnel the rest of your fleet supply into Corvettes to help them out with extra damage and the debuffs.

Right, so corvettes will have some use in the post-titan era. It would be really interesting to construct some 100-supply frigate+corvette group that could take down 1 titan but would fall when attacked by a fleet of HC+bombers. That gives titans the critical weakness they need, as well as the ability to defend against that weakness.

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Quoting Teun-A-Roonius,

reply 38

Because not all of us are walking the path of the force Jim, obviously. Don't ask silly questions.

Actually I was trying to make a point with a joke that you don't necessarily need a huge titan killer... sometimes the smaller ships can do the greatest damage.... perhaps something like a huge swarm of fighters or bombers or corvettes.....

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Quoting just_jim,

reply 44

Actually I was trying to make a point with a joke that you don't necessarily need a huge titan killer... sometimes the smaller ships can do the greatest damage.... perhaps something like a huge swarm of fighters or bombers or corvettes.....

Like I mentioned in my earlier reply:

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius,

reply 35

I also believe removing corvettes from titan AoE attacks would help a lot in balancing the game. Combining a bomber fleet and corvette spam would be a great way to counter titans later during the game and would also make sure corvettes remain useful later on and not just at the start of a game.

I was merely joking.

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If they made corvettes titan counter we would get another rock paper scissors loop since frig die to titans and corvettes die to frigates,

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Doesn't Advent psi-tech count somewhat as a hacky way to create a Force? I'm pretty sure everyone on board an Advent ship is in some kind of freaky battle-meditation-slash-Jedi-mind-meld.

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Quoting SpardaSon21,

reply 47

Doesn't Advent psi-tech count somewhat as a hacky way to create a Force? I'm pretty sure everyone on board an Advent ship is in some kind of freaky battle-meditation-slash-Jedi-mind-meld.

You're right. I hadn't thought about it before, but I suppose some of the Advent technology could be looked at as a sort of Dark Side....

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Anyway, back to serious titan killing... I have to vote against a titan killer. Titans are supposed to almost unkillable monsters... except perhaps by another titan, and a lot of luck.... I like it that way.... makes the game much more challanging

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I find it stupid that Orgovs sit idly by, and don't hit Titans, but only Starbases and structures.

The devs need to make them as well as the Advent anti structure ships target Titans.

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Quoting wbino,

reply 50

I find it stupid that Orgovs sit idly by, and don't hit Titans, but only Starbases and structures.

The devs need to make them as well as the Advent anti structure ships target Titans.

This would pretty much just be a big buff to TEC's ability to take down titans and not much else.

Even if they could hit titans, Adjucators DMG/sec:fleet supply ratio is so low that even considering antimodule damage deals 100% damage tot titans it would still be more efficient per-supply to build carriers, corvettes, LRF, or HC.

The range is high, but carriers would still be a better option for keeping the frigates distance(they can run while dealing damage). Unlike the Ogrov the Adjucator has a fast weapon cooldown so there would be no advantage of frontloading damage before shield mitigation goes up either.

Honestly speaking there would be better anti-titan options for the Advent even before we take into account the Adjucator's inability to attack any other types of ships present.

The Vasari antistructure unit, the Orky can already attack titans.

Honestly this change wouldn't be remotely general- It would pretty much just be a buff tot he TEC's ability to deal with titans.

I think we should focus more on general changes that address the problem as a whole rather then try to fix the problem individually for each race.

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