why is HARD too HARD

im clearly not doing something right

So, i'm playing with TEC Rebels and i'm just trying to get to a place where i can compete in hard difficulty. 

 

I'm playing Gemini 2 vs 2 , random opponents and team mate, all hard.

 

I've played multiple times and i can't seem to expand as fast as the AI does, even when they end up being TEC Rebels as well (which is the part that clearly tells me i'm doing something wrong)

the techs i research are usually in this order : high density, deep coor mining,orbital commerce, then fleet upgrade and officer upgrade, then hanger defense, corvettes, neruda, LRF,    by this time i'm noticeably behind

 

ships are usually a 50/50 mix of frigates and corvettes , akkan, next would be Marza.

I've tried infrastructural first thing on each colony, i've tried putting it off. i try to get trade ports up asap (seems logical to me)

 

Please help. I R ignorant

 

 

 

8,704 views 11 replies
Reply #1 Top

First off, the smaller the map the harder AI is. Second, you should focus on expansion at the very beginning. Send the Akkan (or whatever capital you've chosen -- against the AI in a small map I might go with Marza) to heavily defended worlds (if I remember right Gemini has some desert worlds) while sending a pack of cobalts/corvettes + colony to the asteroids. Expand first towards your enemy, then fill in the gaps behind. Gemini has capturable extractors, those are very valuable. Immediately after colonization 1 or 2 civilian population upgrades to a planet is crucial (as long as the militia has no more siege).

Your main problem though sounds like research. Planet population and increase in mining should not come at the expense of your expansion. Do those later after you've acquired all the easy worlds you're likely to get.

Trade ports are good, make sure you know how to use those.

Fleet, Corvettes, LRF, those are good. Certainly don't do the envoy early.

For structures, I'm not overly fond of hanger bays vs the AI. Guns + multiple repair bays is the way to go early on.

Reply #2 Top

There are three main mistakes new(ish) players make in Sins IMO. The first is building too many capitalships. The second is researching too much, especially early. The third is not expanding fast enough. I'm guessing you're falling victim to 2 & 3.

 

the techs i research are usually in this order : high density, deep coor mining,orbital commerce, then fleet upgrade and officer upgrade, then hanger defense, corvettes, neruda, LRF,    by this time i'm noticeably behind
End of quote

First of all, you should never get mining techs until you have a good sized Empire, and in fact I go through the vast majority of my games without getting them at all. Terran pop upgrades should only be gotten if you can't build any more ships and don't want to expand your fleet at the moment. Rest are all good techs you should have in the first half hour (Well the neruda depends on how face your diplomacy is going, if you're under serious attack put off diplomacy until later), but you should replace hangars with repair bays.

For the first phase of the game, most of your resources should be geared to expansion. Get Corvettes ASAP for your initial expansion push, and if you have time to get ice/volcanics get those colonization techs. Timing is key with the frigates, the only important thing with them is that you have the ability to build them when you need that type of frigate to counter you enemy. If your enemy is spamming LRFs for example, you really have no reason to build anything besides corvettes.

I've played multiple times and i can't seem to expand as fast as the AI does
End of quote

That is indeed a big problem. You may want to try "double expansion". Most pro players will open with a colony cap and an additional colony frigate or two colony frigates so they can expand in two directions at a time. Your colony caps can take most volcanic/ice or lower militia without support, so that frees up your Corvettes/LF to clear the asteroids & dwarfs, and possibly weak volcanic/ices at the same time.

Also make sure you focus on destroying the siege frigates first. Once all of them are destroyed, you should colonize the planet immediately. Even if you're forced to retreat, the militia can't retake the planet from you, so you're free to get the planet pop upgrades.

Also, while Gemini is probably too small for this, keep in mind as TEC Rebels you have Truce Amongst Rouges (TaR) at your disposal. Rushing this tech when you have some breathing room lets your colony frigates colonize without armed escorts, and lets you bypass militia defenses without issue, freeing your fleet to raid the enemy while you colonize most of the map. This takes a lot of practice to do this well though, and you'll end up spending a lot of cash getting basic population upgrades and extractors, leaving you vulnerable for a bit until those planets repair their development costs.

I've tried infrastructural first thing on each colony, i've tried putting it off. i try to get trade ports up asap (seems logical to me)
End of quote

Early on, you'll just get the first/second population upgrades for asteroids & dwarfs/other planets and the resource extractors. Build research structures as needed, put unless you're pulling of a strategy like TaR you really can get away with only two of each lab early on. As TEC your early trade is a big advantage, but keep in mind you need have the military force to protect that trade, and that you should probably not invest in trade until there are no more neutral planets you can take (planets pay for themselves faster than trade ports). Only once all the easy planets are taking should you invest a lot in trade, and only if your Empire is secure enough.

Reply #3 Top

This is solid advice you've been given, there's little to add. I think the only thing to point out is that it's important you're upbeat on those colony ships. As soon as the planet is relatively safe, send in the colonizer. The idea is it doesn't matter much if it takes some damage, it just has to survive. Every little moment you can send it in sooner is getting the colony up and running that much earlier. The main thing to look out for are the militia siege frigates - but since those are so fragile and slow you can often get away with colonizing even if one or two are still alive and at full health. Just be sure to focus-fire them down as soon as you colonize.

 

Yes, and don't overdo the research. Early on, it is much more valuable to colonize fast than to research. You must never empty your pockets so much on research that it impedes your colonization rate (by being unable to afford colony ships or planet upgrades, for instance).

Reply #4 Top

Also another mistake new players tend to make: Be very careful of wasting too much money of static defenses.

 

Turrets are practically only used to speed expansion(colonize a planet before killing some of the defending militia and build turrets immediately to help kill the defenders faster, then scrap the turrets once they finish their job).  Hanger bays are luxury late game defenses for when you have a ton of extra money.

 

 

In general 2 repair bays are enough to defend a planet as long as there is a frigate factory or two somewhere relatively nearby.

 

 

Likewise don't overbuild starbases- starbases should be built where you absolutely need them, not on every planet.

 

 

 

Early game a vast majority of your income should be going to either improving your economy or increasing the size of your fleet(build more frigates), dependign on whether you get involved in early battles or are playing for the long run.

Reply #5 Top

Thanks a ton for all the advise. I'm giving it a try right now. If anyone wants to add more please do!

Reply #6 Top

Here's a question, when do u start researching structural subsystems & ballistics/rocketry?

 

Reply #7 Top

Quoting CoronalFire, reply 1
First off, the smaller the map the harder AI is.
End of CoronalFire's quote

I think this is true for some maps, but not for the smallest - like Point Blank and Quickstrike - you can easily rush and overwhelm the AI before any of its unfair advantages on harder levels kick in to be a factor - it simply isn't able to handle and respond to rushes very well. On 15+ small planet maps, the advantages/cheats will kick in and it will be a lot harder.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting GeneHerr, reply 7
Here's a question, when do u start researching structural subsystems & ballistics/rocketry?
End of GeneHerr's quote

You need to have a decent sized fleet before you invest in stat research, otherwise its much more cost effective to just build more ships. Again like the terran population upgrade, if you are at your fleet supply limit but don't want to expand your fleet because of the increased upkeep, you might start getting the tier 1 upgrades after the first or second fleet supply upgrade. After that it just depends, but I will say in competitive matches its pretty rare you max out your stat improvement bonuses. In short, if you have the choice between more stat research and something else, I would go with something else until your fleet gets fairly large.

The main exceptions to this are phase missiles, which as Vasari you should get ASAP, or research that you need as a prereq for a unit or structure, like the missile techs for the Novalith cannon as TEC Rebels.

Reply #9 Top

OK, i think i'll win this one. one thing i notice though when logging out: the graph on "credits gained from planet income" shows all 3 AI's about the same, and all 3 about 30% better than myself. any thoughts?

Reply #10 Top

Quoting GeneHerr, reply 10
OK, i think i'll win this one. one thing i notice though when logging out: the graph on "credits gained from planet income" shows all 3 AI's about the same, and all 3 about 30% better than myself. any thoughts?
End of GeneHerr's quote

 

Probably means you weren't buying the population planetary improvements for the planets you colonized- or alternatively that the AI are just colonizing more planets.  Leaving a planet with absolutely no population upgrades will result in the planet actually having a negative income though- so having a couple planets that you never upgrade the population compacity of can result in a hit to your economy.

 

Income from planets is just a measure of how high the population of your worlds though, so the only factors are how many planets you own, how many you've upgraded the population capacity on, and how long the planets have had to generate population.