Its supposed to be there as the tradeoff for getting way more defense than the faster units. With encumbrance gone, its the only tradeoff left for wearing full plate. Try giving your heavy armour units weapons with counter-attack, traits that boost their initiative, or putting bread and butter spells like haste and slow to good use. Also don't make just heavy armour wearing armies, a mix of unit types works best just like in real life. The role of the heavy armour units on the battlefield is to soak damage, bring some friends along with them who can rapidly dish it out.

Cwg9, my problem was that I was using mixed armies. The heavy armor troops just sat there while my faster troops rushed forward to deal with the enemy. The alternative was to just keep passing my turns until the enemy army walked up to my heavy armor troops and attacked them. That isn't very fun or balanced. And if the only way to use heavy armor effectively is to rely on counter-attacks, there is a problem.

If requiring a trait is not enough of a balance, here is another suggestion: Remove the init penalty of each individual item, and put a low, flat initiative penalty on the chainmail and heavy plate traits during unit creation (perhaps -2 for chainmail and -4 for heavy, but I don't recall what the current total intiative penatlies are for full suits of those armors, so that my be high/low). That way there is still a tactical choice in armor selection, but you can generate an init penalty that is lower than -1 or -2 per piece of armor (which is what the current system requires for balance).

Additionally, have the heavy plate trait include the ability to wear chainmail. That way units can still mix chain and plate without needing two traits and a lower init.

Init penalty directly in the trait sounds a bit problematic. For instance, would it behave differently for champions? Or does a champion instantly get -4 initiative if he gets the plate trait, even if he's wearing only leather?

I do agree that plate proficiency should contain chain proficiency as well.

Right, the traits I mentioned would only be for units, and not champions.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with champions being able to wear chain and heavy armor without an initiative penalty. Unlike units, champions have to be a certain level to wear those, and require the use of a trait slot to get them. Heavy plate also requires chainmail to get, so they balance themselves out.

While it is true that removing encumbrance means armor must be re-balanced, I still believe removing it was the correct decision, and a huge step in the right direction. We just need to keep pushing until we make it all the way.

The problem is the AI does not "design" units it only uses predesigned units that are listed within the AIUnits file along with the normal units that show up when you unlock certain techs.

Chain gives a penalty of -2 initiative now that gloves have no penalty. I don't even know what the Plate Penalty is, as before I ever unlocked it I faced Yithril in a war of extermination and won easily when they started producing Oppressors in plate with their 8 initiative. Also I remember how bad Plate was the last time it had a penalty per item.

Plate should be a great bonus in combat, if it needs a cost it should come from huge production and metal costs, not the fact it weighs an unrealistic amount.  I'd support a -3 or even -2 penalty on platemail, its not supposed to be balanced vs leather or chainmail, its supposed to be an endgame technology.

Well, that not completely right.  The problem comes from the weight versus how well it is distributed   Maile armor was heavy, about 40 lbs or so but all the weight was on the shoulders with a small amount held by a belt when given.  Maile armor did have greaves but once again they were heavy with all their weight only on the hips held by the belt.  Plate on the other hand was slightly heavier, by virtue of using more metal but because of its rigidity it allowed for a better distribution of weight.  So while it weighed more it was easier to wear.  Oh and munition armor which was the general plate they handed to line soldiers was around 50-60 lbs depending on point of manufacture.  Milanese fully articulated field plate was I believe around 65 lbs but was supposed to be the most protective and non restrictive  armor at the high time of plate armors.  How does this translate in game?  Plate is generally hard to run in so should reflect with a movement penalty but it is about the same penalty to actions as chain.  So maybe a -2 Init for chain and a total of -2 init and -1 movement for plate.  This would be balanced by mounted plate wearers and chain infantry.

This reiterates what I said but I can not attest to how it works personally as I have not experienced it.  I am going off research.  How would you represent this in game though, which ultimately is the goal here.  I gave the suggestion of -2 Init for Chain and -2 Init and -1 Movement for Plate but based upon what you are saying it should be -2 Init for Chain and -1 Init and -1 Movement for plate.

Yea halmal242, dinna see your post until after I'd made mine, I'm kind of slow.

This sounds good to me, keeps them different while not too restrictive.

I don't know i don't seem to have to many issues, make sure you give the right traits and give them swords and horses and i've been able to make them effective. 

Yes it sucks that they are heavily penalized for it and having to give up a trait for the armor on top of it all. But if you create a unit all around initiative get a champion with the command skill tree you can actually have a damn near unstoppable force.

I think a penalty to both would be the most realistic but some might consider that too harsh a penalty.