"Forbidden Worlds" DLC, aka. "Advent Booster Pack 1"

from Sins Forums

An interesting side effect of the DLC's 'planetary specialization' system is that the Advent stand to gain a great deal more from it than do the other factions. I say it is so because of the Advent's focus on culture, specifically early available culture, and because of the Advent's inherent weak economy that means they are more reliant on income from population than trade ports and refineries. One of the Advent's disadvantages is a lack of economic upgrades through research, of which both the TEC and the Vasari have more. Now, with the DLC, all planets have many more available economic upgrades, none of which require research. These things combine to mean the Advent player can develop much more rapidly than was possible before. The best example case of this is the homeworld itself. As soon as the game begins, without having even built a single lab, one can start growing the population base of the homeworld. This is possible for every faction, but it is stronger for Advent because they can start spreading culture both earlier and faster. With social specialization upgrades, the high-allegiance, near-homeworld planets can develop significantly higher population bases, faster. The Advent then soon applies an impressive empire-wide 10% bonus to this entire, larger-than-normal economy through an inexpensive researched tech and single building. The further consequence of the availability of these specialization upgrades, which create a new, alternative way to grow one's economy, is that the need for trade ports and refineries is reduced, effectively postponing the time when the Advent will suffer from a lack of upgrades much further into the late game.

17,676 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

1. Vasari has better population growth, though still Advent benefits the most.

 

2, Culture is still a weak thing and can be countered quite well..

 

You are right, this social specialization is good, as Advent in AI games I rarely build trade ports now, and still have a relatively good economy.. I only need trade ports if my starting position lacks high-pop planets..

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I really really like to play Vasari with the DLC. Getting high population on planets doesn't take ages with them. So my experience is that the DLC is best for Vasari.

But I've mainly played Vasari with it so take it for what it's worth.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

The Advent. Especially the Loyalist needed a buff to begin with. So i am not complaining.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Ravagus, reply 2

I really really like to play Vasari with the DLC. Getting high population on planets doesn't take ages with them. So my experience is that the DLC is best for Vasari.

But I've mainly played Vasari with it so take it for what it's worth.
End of Ravagus's quote

 

You make a good point. Perhaps you are indeed correct and it's the Vasari that gains the most - with their biological augmentations they can build up a densely populated world in record time! However, I think for the very early game, at least, where it's coin and not rate of build or growth that restricts you, it's the Advent that stands to gain the most from the DLC's new ruleset.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I can't say this is necessarily a bad thing. Culture has widely been known to be rather sub-par on a competitive level, and the Advent have the weakest economy as is; making them more competitive is a good thing.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Apheirox, reply 4


Quoting Ravagus, reply 2
I really really like to play Vasari with the DLC. Getting high population on planets doesn't take ages with them. So my experience is that the DLC is best for Vasari.

But I've mainly played Vasari with it so take it for what it's worth.

 

You make a good point. Perhaps you are indeed correct and it's the Vasari that gains the most - with their biological augmentations they can build up a densely populated world in record time! However, I think for the very early game, at least, where it's coin and not rate of build or growth that restricts you, it's the Advent that stands to gain the most from the DLC's new ruleset.
End of Apheirox's quote

 

True.

The Vasari doesn't really shine until you have a decent economy running so you can start upgrading your worlds. But when you do your income will get a very nice boom .

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

vasari is still strong but titans are weakening more and more because their only survival technique is to level up quickly to withstand bombers. SBs r more defensive now..

Thier economy and dps is also boosted by dlc significantly because they can escape their dependencies on resources and take advantage of social development to mass produce ships before starting trade--but the goal is always to rush for trade ports and backup trade with social dev.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

This is not booster pack, why??, because all faction owner have the same research. Social and industrial

 

So, you have a asteroid and next jump enemy asteriod, if you put industrial specialization and enemy put social IS YOUR PROBLEM, because an strategy game seeks to have to think about the game in the moment.

 

If you have a asteroid and next jump are a terran, terran have more nicely social bonus, so TRIED TO GET THIS PLANET AND DONT CRY ABOUT "advent buff".... really, i no see any ONLY FOR ADVENT PLANET BUFF.

I see a nice strategy possibilitys

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Vash_AMR, reply 8
AND DONT CRY ABOUT "advent buff"
End of Vash_AMR's quote

 

I don't see anyone crying here.

 

You understand racial strengths and weaknesses good as it seems from your comment (irony)... Let me help you out:

Advent has the worst economy, so increasing possibilities for all races with the same amount means biggest help for Advent

Advent relies more on population and culture because of their trade problems... So social specialization is best for them.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

I no see the problem.

 

Tec have nice trade port, and it have research to have a fast frigate construction... so... industrial is OP for TEC?,

 

You will choose planet specialization depending the faction (advent, tech, vasari). so, with the advent bags easier the culture center, with the TEC have trade port easy, and vasari growth rate easy (tier 2)

 

Really i no see the problem, i play with all factions

 

You get a volcanic planet and put 4 trade port with industrial specialization?, and when is in the trade port line?.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Vash_AMR, reply 10

I no see the problem.

 

Tec have nice trade port, and it have research to have a fast frigate construction... so... industrial is OP for TEC?,

 

You will choose planet specialization depending the faction (advent, tech, vasari). so, with the advent bags easier the culture center, with the TEC have trade port easy, and vasari growth rate easy (tier 2)

 

Really i no see the problem, i play with all factions

 

You get a volcanic planet and put 4 trade port with industrial specialization?, and when is in the trade port line?.
End of Vash_AMR's quote

 

nothing is op for noone... the strength is about the same of these things for all races, but helps Advent most, and it is not a problem... Vasari has nice population and nice trade, TEC has very good trade, Advent has, uhm, shitty trade and useless culture. Now culture is strong (on social worlds you can have extreme culture your opponent will not be able to stop!!) and you can have some nice population too, best for Advent Loyalist because of the increased allegiance.

 

Every race will use planet types the same, even Advent will go for trade where it has huge bonuses, and Even TEC will go for Population if it brings most profit.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

i cant say so much, because i play on galaxy of >6 players.

 

It will not be able to stop cultere on a close galaxy maybe. I no see dificult with the culture when i play.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Vash_AMR, reply 12
It will not be able to stop cultere on a close galaxy maybe. I no see dificult with the culture when i play.
End of Vash_AMR's quote

 

If an Advent starts to push culture from a socialized terran that has 100% extra for culture output, and you have no similar planets nearby (to produce enough culture), your territory will be saturated in enemy colour even if you have broadcast centers. And it is on medium maps, I guess worse on small maps, and you can do nothing to stop it if you can't take the culture producing world. It can be hard against Unfair AI in the early game...

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Vash, we aren't complaining about this possibly boosting the Advent, we are happy that it might be boosting the Advent.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Lavo_2, reply 14

Vash, we aren't complaining about this possibly boosting the Advent, we are happy that it might be boosting the Advent.
End of Lavo_2's quote

 

Yes i read wrong x_x :banhammer: , so sorry for my msj . I like so much this DLC. :dur: :thumbsup:

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Is this most recent patch really boosting the Advent though? The last time I checked the Vasari still get a ridiculous trade income and so do the TEC...so doesn't it follow that the Vasari and TEC would be able to "exploit" the social specialization on their planets to the same extent the advent do? I noticed that the advent get pretty massive bonuses for Barren colonization, and the Barren type is free to colonize right off the bat, so I guess that is a small buff to Advent, but only if they happen to roll a Barren world on their borders.

 

I am a huge Advent fanboy and I've been experimenting since the last patch. Advent culture still seems to be pretty terrible at pushing back enemy culture, unless they don't build more than 1 comm center. I suppose you can force your opponent to tech to comm centers, but again, your inferior economy as the Advent just means that you are putting yourself behind the 8 ball by  buying infrastructure instead of buffing your fleet.

 

Has anyone noticed any significant change with the advent in this newest patch? Is the battle ball strategy still viable?

 

If anyone has some input on Advent Battle-Balling, I'd appreciate it. I don't know if I'm doing it right or not. I feel like I'm missing something, because the battle ball seems to consist of a Mothership, a handful of Guardian Shield Frigates, and as many corvettes/disciples/drone hosts you can possibly build. The "battle ball" seems to revolve around Mothership shield regen, malice in-between shield regens, and Guardian shield use. Is this it? The advent battle ball is about just these three abilities until you get more cap ships? Illuminators boost your DPS and defense vessels offer...well...defense, but as far as "battle balling" around the map it seems to just be about keeping your discs, guardians, and mothership together. Am I missing something? Are advent loyalists even remotely competitive in MP? The deliverance engine still seems somewhat bugged because when I fire it even at a non-homeworld system, it only projects my culture into a couple of phase lanes. I can't even tell if I"m getting my "fury" buff or not, because the system rarely switches completely over to my culture, even after multiple hits.