Winning the 10-way FFA game with two scouts

The AI should really, really stop chasing scouts with dreadnoughts

Unless you're playing above Unfair, it seems that getting the closest two AIs (left and right of starting position) to chase scouts with their capital ship early in the game seems to completely stymie their expansion. As the AI seems to seldom go for carrier or colony caps (which also tend to come with fighter/bomber squads), they just chase scouts without ever damaging them. And because their capital ship is so busy with that, they basically don't expand anymore. And once you've gotten their poorly defended homeworlds, with three Terran planets it's basically impossible to lose the game.

Of course, this exploits the AI stupidity almost to the max, but it's hard to fault the circling scouts tactics when playing the Vasari as they have no other way to keep an eye on the enemy. The same tactic also works well for capturing neutral extractors early on, although it may requires two scouts: one recharging its AM in peace and doing the capturing, while the other one gives the well militia/pirates the runaround.

 

17,652 views 23 replies
Reply #1 Top

How many heads does a hydra have? Seleuceia, I knew your were projecting when you kept repeating that phrase...

Reply #2 Top

How many tangerines can a Hydra eat?

Reply #3 Top

Twelve...no wait, thirteen!

Reply #4 Top

...Fourteen! Damnit its almost as if more keep appearing each time I count!

Reply #5 Top

You can win the 10 way FFA any way you choose.  It is really up to you and the personal sense of satisfaction you get out of any given play style.  That is why most of us either crank up the difficulty a lot, or lock the 9 AI's on one team.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 5

You can win the 10 way FFA any way you choose.  It is really up to you and the personal sense of satisfaction you get out of any given play style.  That is why most of us either crank up the difficulty a lot, or lock the 9 AI's on one team.

I suspect it would make little difference if they all fall for the chasing-the-scout trick. Just make a few more scouts in the beginning. The peace time those buy for unfettered expansion is way disproportionate to the investment. So the AI should be fixed in some way not to fall for this, or at least counter it in a more cost effective fashion. I'm not sure how to make it, say, more likely to build hangars. Pretty much until they get carriers out or level up their cap to L3 this trick too OP. Maybe 2-3 of 9 AIs get their first cap with fighters/bombers on board. I was hoping the latter could be fixed more easily because I vaguely recalled that the Artificial Unintelligence mod claimed to have changed the likelyhoods of the initial capital ship builds. Alas, all it did was change the Egg from roleType "Invalid" to roleType "COLONY" (which might make the AI more likely to build that ship, although, in my experience, the Vasari AIs still spam Rankulas as their first and sometime also their second ship). There don't seem be any moddable AI knobs for specific ship or structure types. Bummer.

 

Reply #7 Top

Quoting RespawnedTitanL10, reply 6
There don't seem be any moddable AI knobs for specific ship or structure types.

Sadly there is very few AI knobs at all. The work that Delnar_Ersike is probably the best I have ever seen.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting RespawnedTitanL10, reply 6


Quoting Cykur, reply 5
You can win the 10 way FFA any way you choose.  It is really up to you and the personal sense of satisfaction you get out of any given play style.  That is why most of us either crank up the difficulty a lot, or lock the 9 AI's on one team.

I suspect it would make little difference if they all fall for the chasing-the-scout trick. Just make a few more scouts in the beginning. The peace time those buy for unfettered expansion is way disproportionate to the investment. So the AI should be fixed in some way not to fall for this, or at least counter it in a more cost effective fashion. I'm not sure how to make it, say, more likely to build hangars. Pretty much until they get carriers out or level up their cap to L3 this trick too OP. Maybe 2-3 of 9 AIs get their first cap with fighters/bombers on board. I was hoping the latter could be fixed more easily because I vaguely recalled that the Artificial Unintelligence mod claimed to have changed the likelyhoods of the initial capital ship builds. Alas, all it did was change the Egg from roleType "Invalid" to roleType "COLONY" (which might make the AI more likely to build that ship, although, in my experience, the Vasari AIs still spam Rankulas as their first and sometime also their second ship). There don't seem be any moddable AI knobs for specific ship or structure types. Bummer.

 

 

You missed my point.  If you want to beat the AI using a cheese tactic, that is totally up to you -- no one is making you do it.

Reply #9 Top

Is Cykur the only non-troll in this forum (besides me and aresiv)? Major props to you man...

Reply #10 Top

Quoting RagnorakEviscerator, reply 1

How many heads does a hydra have? Seleuceia, I knew your were projecting when you kept repeating that phrase...

Quoting RagnorakEviscerator, reply 9

Is Cykur the only non-troll in this forum (besides me and aresiv)? Major props to you man...

That's weird, the first reply to this thread was from Ragnarok...

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 8


You missed my point.  If you want to beat the AI using a cheese tactic, that is totally up to you -- no one is making you do it.

And I guess you've missed mine. Scouting an enemy system for as long as you can doesn't seem all that cheesy. Unlike, say, using mines, although I hear the AI got better at dealing with those. I guess I should restrict myself to linear paths with the scouts, because that's all the AI can do with his or can deal with... Or add/mod a scout probe research to all factions...

 

Reply #12 Top

Quoting RespawnedTitanL10, reply 11


And I guess you've missed mine. Scouting an enemy system for as long as you can doesn't seem all that cheesy. Unlike, say, using mines, although I hear the AI got better at dealing with those. I guess I should restrict myself to linear paths with the scouts, because that's all the AI can do with his or can deal with... Or add/mod a scout probe research to all factions...

 

 

OH!  My bad!  I see now  what you are trying to say;  the AI is dumb and can easily be exploited by flying scouts in circles around gravwells, your favorite method of scouting.  Well, considering the devs are not going to completely rewrite the AI, by all means please refer to my previous posts for my constructive thoughts on what you might do.

Reply #13 Top

WHAT ABOUT AI MODS? IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE WITH SINS? WE HAD BETTER GET THE DEVS.

Reply #15 Top

That's like the pot calling the kettle black...

 

 

Or would it be more like the pot calling the pot black?  So hard to tell these days...

 

 

Dynamic IPs....a wonderful thing....

Reply #16 Top

What's dynamic IP?

And wouldn't it actually be Mr magic eraser calling a pot black, since I'm actually not a troll?

Reply #17 Top

If you kill a hydra is it de-hydrated?

Reply #18 Top

Is that your other account Seleuceia?

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Bartowski, reply 18

Is that your other account Seleuceia?

No, its my other account. And this account is Seleuceia. Which is used by Goafan77. And Goafan77 is a seperate account run by Cyker.

Reply #20 Top

Goddammit, they've infected the whole fcking administration!!!

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Sinperium, reply 17
If you kill a hydra is it de-hydrated?

In theory...but then you can't really kill a hydra so I suppose we'll never know...

Reply #22 Top

Ryat, Seleuceia, and Sinperium... The unholy trinity...

Reply #23 Top

Quoting Bartowski, reply 22

Ryat, Seleuceia, and Sinperium... The unholy trinity...

Don't believe in the Trinity. Its an affront to all that is holy er unholy. Or something like that.